The bistander thread

[bistander]

Hello Turion,
Got it spinning? Any data to report?
Thanks in advance,
bi

[Turion]

Yes and no. Got everything I wanted to get done finished, and have run into all kinds of different problems.

The belt I have isn't long enough to work with the new gear on the motor. I had hoped that a smaller gear on the shaft and a larger gear on the motor would balance out, but not so much. So either I have to find a longer belt, or I have to re-engineer the motor mount. Either solution will require time.

I have been trying to get it to work with just the same motor pulley and the new, smaller pulley on the shaft, but there has been a problem there too. Some kind of odd vibration I am working to eliminate. If I can get that worked out, I will begin testing.

I WAS excited to find out that the Pacific Scientific motor I have will use the same motor pulleys as the MY 1020 adaptor I had made. It is a 120 volt DC motor, so the possibility exists of using it and being able to just rectify the voltage coming off the generator coils to loop the system. But I need to get a motor mount made for it if I can't figure out a way to mount it.

Didn't have as much time as I hoped this weekend, but I have lots of time this week before I leave for ten days to AZ for Thanksgiving. I want to be done before I go, so I can turn it over to my friends to have it tested.

[bistander]

If I don't file the outside layer of rods, the core won't fit in the machine, so I don't have much choice. I'd rather not take the time.

As to the gearing situation, I want to know what my options are as to voltage and amperage input to achieve 2800 RPM with what is available. I may stick with what I have, I may not. Options never hurts. What I'm having a hard time understanding is why I see such a difference in input between using the gears and belt, and driving the generator directly shaft connected. So changing things is providing me with data.

Hey Turion,

Making any progress?
bi

[Turion]

If I don't file the outside layer of rods, the core won't fit in the machine, so I don't have much choice. I'd rather not take the time.

As to the gearing situation, I want to know what my options are as to voltage and amperage input to achieve 2800 RPM with what is available. I may stick with what I have, I may not. Options never hurts. What I'm having a hard time understanding is why I see such a difference in input between using the gears and belt, and driving the generator directly shaft connected. So changing things is providing me with data.

[bistander]

... So here's what I intend to do. (And remember..."coils" INCLUDES the cores)

1. Get the machine up to 2850 RPM with no coils in place, as that is the "ballpark" required for "Neutral Lenz" with these coils.
2. Determine the EXACT RPM required to tun the machine at "Neutral Lenz" with the coils I am using by putting two coils in the machine under 300 watt load.
3. Record the Amp draw and Voltage at the target RPM with NO COILS in the machine.
4. Add two UNLOADED coils and record the change in voltage and amp draw necessary to maintain target RPM.
5. Keep adding pairs of coils until all six pair are in the machine, recording amps and voltage required at each step to maintain target RPM.
6. Take all coil pairs but one out of the machine, and adjust to "Neutralize" the magnetic drag, and record volts and amps required to maintain target RPM
7. Continue to add coil pairs, adjust to neutralize each pair, and record volts and amps required to maintain target RPM
8. Place a coil pair under 300 watt load, and record any change in input voltage and amps or in RPM. Record output to load in volts and amps
9. Add loads to each of the rest of the coil pairs in turn, recording changes in input voltage and amps and in RPM for each added coil, and the output in volts and amps to each load for each subsequent coil.
Measure total input to motor under full load of 300 watts on each coil pair and total output in volts and amps to all the loads.

I figure the MAXIMUM output of this machine will be around 1800 watts. That's because the coils I am using do not have the solid iron cores. I could put THOSE coils in in the machine and produce the power I have produced in the past, (1800-20000 watts) but what good is it if you can only run it 30 minutes at a time before it overheats. Except to prove it does what I have always said it will do.

saving this post here for comments after Turion attempts this test procedure.

It is nicely laid out and I do hope he follows it and shares data. Good luck Turion.
bi

[bistander]

So, lots of things done today. The RPM meter is all set up running on a separate power supply. Although I had to take it APART again because of some issues that it was in the way of working on. The RPM of the machine was about 1500 RPM with the input I had yesterday. It took me 30.2 volts at 8.7 amps to get the RPM up to 2800 RPM, and that is unacceptable.
I'm going to have to change the gears. So I took the gear off the motor and the one off the generator shaft and I will go to Sacramento either tomorrow or Tuesday to see what I can find. Probably call a couple places tomorrow and figure out a plan. Maybe a bigger gear for the motor or a smaller gear for the generator shaft, or both. Got the whole unit moved over to the rolling cart that will remain its home for the foreseeable future and I can reclaim my table saw for other purposes.

All the coil bobbins have to be slightly sanded to get them to slide into the holder correctly. The two end pieces of each bobbin have a sharp edge on them, and that needs to be blunted. Just takes time. Also, all the 3/4" holes in the machine at the center of each coil holder need to be sanded, and I am working on that, one hole at a time, as I prepare each coil and fit it into the machine. The metal that sticks out of the coil 1/4" to fit closer to the magnet needs to be filed, and I have a whole process for that. The video of what I worked on today is below.

https://youtu.be/bOv-SV9rQFA

Hi Turion,

Thanks for the update. You do realize that by changing the pulley ratio and then the motor speed controller to get the same 2800RPM, won't affect the motor input watts much if at all because the motor efficiency will be approximately the same. So you're not going to save any significant power keeping the same 2800 rotor RPM. You can alter the proportion of volts and amps. A smaller motor shaft pulley requires higher motor voltage and therefore lower motor current.

Also be advised that filing or machining core surface defeats the purpose of laminations, or core wires/rods in your case.

Just wanted you to know that if you're looking to reduce motor power at 2800 RPM by pulley ratio, you're wasting your time. But carry on.
bi

[Turion]

My friend who is working on the coils won’t be able to hand them off until Thursday. And I still haven’t gotten all the old parts to align with the new. Working on it. Still have to rewire the light board. Should have everything done by the time the coils are here on Thursday.

[bistander]

bi,
...
By the way, my spacers, which I expected on Monday, came in today, so there is a good chance I will have this machine all put together this weekend and can do some testing before all my coils get here on Tuesday.

Tuesday is fast approaching. ...

Hi Turion,

It's Tuesday. Hope you're doing well. How's the machine running?

Regards,
bi

[dragon]

There doesn't appear to be anything special here. You are simply creating a resonant circuit between C2/C3 and the motor coils. C1 is putting energy into this resonant circuit. The resistance of the coils burns of the energy in the resonant circuit (ohmic losses), while C1 re-supplies it to the resonant circuit. You should measure the resistance of the coils and multiply it with the current squared and that should give the same value as what you are loosing on C1 (maybe a little less as there are friction losses in the motor as well). The voltage you are measuring at the output between C1/C2 is "polluted" as it includes the caps and the coils. Also, try putting some load on the motor and you should see that C1 will drain down more quickly as you are now also loosing energy through the motor/load.

Or simply simulate this circuit in LTSpice.

Thanks for the honest analysis, much appreciated. The torque generated by the motor through capacitive discharge is notable which is an aspect I didn't bring up as it wasn't depicted in the video. Your right it does raise input as it's mechanically loaded but only to a degree depicted by it's components. If the motor is stalled for any reason the components are balanced and no longer draws a current, similar to simply shutting it off. Its a shame no one commented on the details in previous posts. No claims were made - you saw only what you wanted to see.

[Turion]

bi,
I'm willing to make a wager with someone I consider to be in incompetent, spineless Coward. But you won't make the bet with someone you consider a LIAR about something you believe they are LYING about. LOL. Excuses, excuses, excuses. You are pathetic.

By the way, my spacers, which I expected on Monday, came in today, so there is a good chance I will have this machine all put together this weekend and can do some testing before all my coils get here on Tuesday.

Tuesday is fast approaching. Sure you don't want to make that bet before we have the independent testing done? Coward. Spineless. Pathetic looser.

[BroMikey]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bet

i don't make agreements with liars.
Bi

$2 is that to much? Can you afford $1? Or make it $1000?
BYE IS ON A STREAK

[pmgriphone]

There is a lot more to it but for now I'll leave it there ....

There doesn't appear to be anything special here. You are simply creating a resonant circuit between C2/C3 and the motor coils. C1 is putting energy into this resonant circuit. The resistance of the coils burns of the energy in the resonant circuit (ohmic losses), while C1 re-supplies it to the resonant circuit. You should measure the resistance of the coils and multiply it with the current squared and that should give the same value as what you are loosing on C1 (maybe a little less as there are friction losses in the motor as well). The voltage you are measuring at the output between C1/C2 is "polluted" as it includes the caps and the coils. Also, try putting some load on the motor and you should see that C1 will drain down more quickly as you are now also loosing energy through the motor/load.

Or simply simulate this circuit in LTSpice.

[bistander]

Definition of bet 1: an agreement requiring the person who guesses wrong about the result of a contest or the outcome of an event to give something to the person who guesses right

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bet

I don't make agreements with liars.
bi

[BroMikey]

I know now.

I know you don't have a working device and lied about it

You continue to avoid facing truth. What you claim is false.

You lie about it. You will not test and show data. Why?
bi

So why not make that bet? If you are so sure. $100 is that to much for your wallet? Or do we need to go down to $5?

[bistander]

bi,
Could it be that you are a spineless coward who is afraid to put his money where his mouth is? Could it be you know you are wrong and so avoid making a bet. Could it be that what I have claimed is actually possible? You’ll never know.

I know now.

I know you don't have a working device and lied about it several weeks ago and several times since. When called, by another member and myself, failed to produce and demonstrate the working device you claim to have. It didn't work.You lied about it. You made subsequent claims that you can show a working device with parts you have. You failed to produce so appear to lied some more. You continue to avoid facing truth. What you claim is false. You lie about it. You will not test and show data. Why?
bi