The bistander thread

[altrez]

Any 12 volt load should work.

.

I am going to use a DC load generator to keep it consistent.

-Altrez

[bistander]

Hello all,
I was looking back at some posts about discussion over magnetic neutralization and noticed this:

... Would you care to make a very large wager that the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor? I didn't think so. Put your money where your mouth is, or are you just all talk?

I never said "the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor". Turion had attributed to me a statement which I never made. So all this crap he's been spouting about some wager (that I never could understand) was all about some erroneous memory of his. That is far from the first time he has falsely accused me of statements. It's either a mental defincency on his part or some type of trick.

Glad I found that old post.
bi

[BroMikey]

Yesterday Turion added the above to his previous post with an edit. Here a comment after a quick read and watch of the linked video.



What? I'm sorry. I don't see it. I watched the video and the machine doesn't even turn on its own power, just when he manually moves the rotor. Speeds up? Show coil output? Where?



That prior video is not one of the four he has just recently linked in the past few days. Perhaps he could supply the proper link.

Regards,
bi

Just can not admit he is wrong again. Bye knows he is wrong but can not keep up with all of the versions. It's to much for him. You are babbling irrelevant misinformation as always in this mental
stupor of jumbled up reasoning. What's news?

[Turion]

Turion,
This issue about acceleration is irrelevant to operation of the generator in the expected application that is a constant source of power for a household or such. It is much like your magnetic neutralization and speed-up with load which are also irrelevant to operation. That's why I try not to argue about those because they don't matter. I was just trying to correct a false statement you made hoping you'd learn something from me, or Sir Newton.

Regards,
bi

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

Adding coils with cores requires the rotor to draw more amps to maintain the RPM because of the rotor magnets' attraction to the cores of the coils. PERIOD
I have demonstrated that in videos. Magnetic neutralization eliminates that need. If the amp draw ISN'T increased, there is a reduction in RPM which affects the output of the generator coils.
Either way, magnetic neutralization is not "irrelevant." If anything is "irrelevant" it is you

By the way, I have learned a lot from you. I have learned that you avoid an issue for as long as you possibly can, hoping everyone will forget about it. I have learned that you are coward who won't put his money where his mouth is. I have learned that you hide in the dark because you fear the light. And I have learned that you are a total waste of my time. You are dead wrong about both "speed up under load" and magnetic neutralization. You're just too ignorant to know it. But you have a good day now.

[bistander]

Turion,
This issue about acceleration is irrelevant to operation of the generator in the expected application that is a constant source of power for a household or such. It is much like your magnetic neutralization and speed-up with load which are also irrelevant to operation. That's why I try not to argue about those because they don't matter. I was just trying to correct a false statement you made hoping you'd learn something from me, or Sir Newton.

Regards,
bi

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

Adding coils with cores requires the rotor to draw more amps to maintain the RPM because of the rotor magnets' attraction to the cores of the coils. PERIOD
I have demonstrated that in videos. Magnetic neutralization eliminates that need. If the amp draw ISN'T increased, there is a reduction in RPM which affects the output of the generator coils.
Either way, magnetic neutralization is not "irrelevant." If anything is "irrelevant" it is you

By the way, I have learned a lot from you. I have learned that you avoid an issue for as long as you possibly can, hoping everyone will forget about it. I have learned that you are coward who won't put his money where his mouth is. I have learned that you hide in the dark because you fear the light. And I have learned that you are a total waste of my time. You are dead wrong about both "speed up under load" and magnetic neutralization. You're just too ignorant to know it. But you have a good day now.

Hi Turion,

You say "Adding coils with cores requires the rotor to draw more amps to maintain the RPM because of the rotor magnets' attraction to the cores of the coils."

I agree the motor current will increase with addition of cores, however the reason is due to the additional core loss when running at speed. The additional cores will also increase the cogging which your magnetic neutralization method can mitigate. Your magnetic neutralization method will not affect the core loss at speed.

Regards,
bi

[BroMikey]

Hi Turion,

You say "Adding coils with cores requires the rotor to draw more amps....................

I agree the motor current will increase with addition of cores...............
bi

Finally, case dismissed. The rest of your reasons for making the mistake that no increased draw is back peddling hog wash. Ready to go to the next level? Good, now admit you don't know what you are talking about concerning true science instead of book parroting. Good lesson to learn.

You are among the majority, don't feel bad, you are making progress.

[bistander]

I never said "the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor". Turion had attributed to me a statement which I never made.

Show me where I ever said that "the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor".

[Turion]

My claim all along about magnetic neutralization has been that adding coils (with cores) would decrease the RPM of the motor and increase the amp draw of the motor to the point where it will burn up if you add enough coils, which magnetic neutralization offsets, and you said it is "irrelevant." That's the same as saying that the amp draw and rpm of the motor are NOT affected by the addition of coils (with cores) isn't it? You said magnetic neutralization is irrelevant. It is NOT, as you have finally admitted. They are CRITICAL. Case closed. Grow up.

I made no claims about "core losses". Just crap you're throwing in to obfuscate the issue. YOU WERE WRONG.

I didn't claim that magnetic neutralization would increase the electrical production of the wires either, or cure cancer, so please don't start babbling about those issues.

If you slow down the rotation of the motor and increase its amp draw by adding more coils with cores, you can speed it back up again and reduce its amp draw by implementing magnetic neutralization. I show that in the videos. All your babble does not change the FACTS. The lower RPM results in LESS OUTPUT by the generator coils. The increased amp draw results in MORE INPUT. needed to the motor I eliminate BOTH of these negatives with my design. FACTS. FACTS. FACTS. You're wrong. Get used to it.

[bistander]

You said they are irrelevant. They are NOT as you have finally admitted. They are CRITICAL. Case closed. Grow up.

All the crap about core losses is present in almost ANY generator and has NOTHING to do with the amp draw if the motor which is what magnetic neutralization deals with. You just can’t stand to be proven wrong so you try to twist things around as usual. Still no bet? No spine? Still hiding in the dark? We see you for what you are.

Turion,

Everytime I said your methods were irrelevant I was sure to include "at rated speed and or at rated power output". I've never said your method would not mitigate cogging. Just that cogging is irrelevant at speed and rated output... where the generator generates power. So mitigation of cogging is irrelevant at speed and rated output which is true now as it always has been. Since you use an under sized motor cogging is relevant to you when starting. I never said otherwise. Starting and acceleration are not where a generator operates. Most generators which are used for stationary power are fixed frequency meaning constant RPM. At constant RPM, both your methods, "magnetic neutralization" and "speed-up under load" are irrelevant to generator operation, meaning neither affect the shaft power input (drive motor current).

bi

[Turion]

There is no cogging at speed and rated output. It is eliminated simply by the increased rpm of the motor. Magnetic DRAG will ALWAYS exist as long as there is an interaction between the rotating magnets and the iron cores. It is simply that AT SPEED the ripple caused by cogging is smoothed out. It is CONSTANT. It is a CONSTANT attraction.

See attached. AT SPEED, the peaks in the ripple are simply CLOSER TOGETHER. The faster you go, the closer the peaks, until there ARE NO VALLEYS. The Peak represents the higher amp draw and the valley represents the lower amp draw between contact with the rotor magnets. When the valleys go away, the PEAKS or INCREASED DRAG are constant.

https://www.precisionmicrodrives.com...magnet-motors/

It doesn't go away. To believe that it does shows how little you actually KNOW. It's what you THINK you know.

By the way, I did not make any claims about core losses. Nor did I claim magnetic neutralization would cure cancer or male pattern baldness. Sorry bi, no cure for that hair loss.

Somebody should probably have taught you this before, but if the attraction of the magnet to the iron just "went away" at speed, what would generate the magnetic flux that causes a generator to, you know, generate? It's physics. Ever heard of it?

you have to constantly nit pick everything to attempt to appear like you know what you are talking about and attempt to put me down, like when you called me on the fact that I said “larger” instead of “heavier”. I’m sorry that I assumed someone with half a brain would realize that when two rotors are made out of the same material, the “larger” one would also be “heavier.” My bad.

[Turion]

From 6/26/2020

To make it CLEAR again. and again, and again and again. We are not talking about cogging. Cogging defined: "Cogging torque of electrical motors is the torque due to the interaction between the permanent magnets of the rotor and the stator slots of a Permanent Magnet machine." (Your buddy Wikipedia.) Or in the case of my generator, the TORQUE necessary to break the alignment of the magnet with the iron core of the generator coil. Cogging (or required TORQUE) ABSOLUTELY goes away with increased RPM's and isn't evident AT ALL at high speeds. Because the faster you go the less of a ripple effect you get.

But DRAG does NOT go away. It is the magnetic ATTRACTION of the magnets to the iron they are passing. Just because less torque is required (because of speed and inertia (you know, that Newton thing) does not mean the magnetic attraction suddenly disappears. Or are you able to change the laws of physics? It increases with every coil added around the rotor because the MASS of iron is increasing. It affects the RPM and/or the amp draw of the MOTOR to maintain the constant RPM. The more coils you add, the higher the amp draw of the motor. So testing "Under load. With and without magnetic neutralization. Same power output. Same speed." as you requested is an absolute waste of time. What you need to do is compare is the RPM and amp draw of the motor with ZERO coils in place and the amp draw and RPM of the rotor with TWELVE coils in place at the rated speed and input the motor is designed for. With ZERO coils in place the motor of my machine pulls just over 7 amps JUST TO TURN THE ROTOR. This is running at 36 volts in an unloaded condition. When 12 coils are put in position around the motor, that amp draw jumps up to over 36 amps and the rpm of the motor goes DOWN. Those are facts. I just gave you the data that proves it, but you totally ignore it. Because that is what you do. You ignore everything that gets in the way of your tunnel vision. When magnetic neutralization is implemented that amp draw drops back down to just 12 amps, and the RPM of the motor increases. That is ALSO a fact. I have shown the data HERE that supports what I have just said. I have videos I have shown to several people that support what I just said. Would you care to make a very large wager that the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor? I didn't think so. Put your money where your mouth is, or are you just all talk?

AS I SAID. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. Oh wait, you were WRONG and you know it. You avoided the bet and acted like you don't know what I was talking about for WEEKS. You say magnetic neutralization is irrelevant. You do NOT have even a tiny clue. LOL! How pathetic can you get?

[bistander]

There is no cogging at speed and rated output. It is eliminated simply by the increased rpm of the motor. Magnetic DRAG will ALWAYS exist as long as there is an interaction between the rotating magnets and the iron cores. It is simply that AT SPEED the ripple caused by cogging is smoothed out. It is CONSTANT. It is a CONSTANT attraction.

See attached. AT SPEED, the peaks in the ripple are simply CLOSER TOGETHER. The faster you go, the closer the peaks, until there ARE NO VALLEYS. The Peak represents the higher amp draw and the valley represents the lower amp draw between contact with the rotor magnets. When the valleys go away, the PEAKS or INCREASED DRAG are constant.

https://www.precisionmicrodrives.com...magnet-motors/

It doesn't go away. To believe that it does shows how little you actually KNOW. It's what you THINK you know.

By the way, I did not make any claims about core losses. Nor did I claim magnetic neutralization would cure cancer or male pattern baldness. Sorry bi, no cure for that hair loss.

Somebody should probably have taught you this before, but if the attraction of the magnet to the iron just "went away" at speed, what would generate the magnetic flux that causes a generator to, you know, generate? It's physics. Ever heard of it?

you have to constantly nit pick everything to attempt to appear like you know what you are talking about and attempt to put me down, like when you called me on the fact that I said “larger” instead of “heavier”. I’m sorry that I assumed someone with half a brain would realize that when two rotors are made out of the same material, the “larger” one would also be “heavier.” My bad.

Turion,


You say "It doesn't go away. To believe that it does shows how little you actually KNOW. It's what you THINK you know."

I never said it went away. I said at speed and load cogging is inconsequential, or irrelevant and that it just shows as ripple and nuisance noise. If your magnetic neutralization mitigates cogging, so what? Mitigation or elimination of something that is inconsequential is irrelevant to the function of a generator at speed. Your magnetic neutralization does not affect the main pole magnetic flux so has no effect on the core losses which cause the magnetic drag at speed.

This is what I've said from the start.

So in regards to rotor mass, are you finally seeing truth and agreeing with Newton and myself that power required to turn an object at a constant speed is independent of the mass? Size, yes, probably. Mass, no. You can have two objects exactly the same size and shape but with different mass. You said heavier, not larger. Example: when you add the neutralization magnets to the rotor, it makes it heavier (increases rotor mass) without increasing rotor size (making it larger). Right?

bi

[BroMikey]

Show me where I ever said that "the amp draw and/or rpm of the motor is not affected by the addition of coils around the rotor".

Not only did you say that multiple times (Unless you went back to edit?) but you also stated that a 4 ton rotor takes no more power AT speed to run than a 4 pound rotor. Hilarious dude, lots of gas.Stop clownin and fess up.

[bistander]

From 6/26/2020




AS I SAID. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. Oh wait, you were WRONG and you know it. You avoided the bet and acted like you don't know what I was talking about for WEEKS. You say magnetic neutralization is irrelevant. You do NOT have even a tiny clue. LOL! How pathetic can you get?

Run your generator at speed with and without your magnetic neutralization and see how relevant it is to the power required.

I was never wrong about that.

bi

[BroMikey]

From 6/26/2020




AS I SAID. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS. Oh wait, you were WRONG and you........ LOL! How pathetic can you get?

The only money he gets is a check for causing disruptions from the communist party? Right Bye or is that an incorrect statement/ question mark?