The bistander thread

[bistander]

Bistander, do you understand what Thane Heins's patent on a generator coil actually means? A patent wouldn't be granted on a perpetual motion machine.
Thank you.

Hi Q_w,

I think I read or at least looked at his patent long ago. I don't recall his claims. I doubt there is a perpetual motion claim. However the patent office has been known to issue patents on BS which amounts to perpetual motion, contrary to their stated policy. I suspect the examiner and officials have been fooled by the applicants and their attorneys. Those perpetual motion patents which I've noticed have all ended up in the archives gathering dust. Occasionally one is used as promotion for scam. Some are even discussed here on this forum, like Figuera, re. http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/...-builders-only

Regards,
bi

[Quantum_well]

Bistander, do you understand what Thane Heins's patent on a generator coil actually means? A patent wouldn't be granted on a perpetual motion machine.
Thank you.

[bistander]

Lenz's law states that the current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion. That final part of Lenz "law" is what can be engineered around. The fact that it CAN be engineered around is what makes it a reaction and NOT a law. If it was a LAW, the mechanical force would always oppose the motion because it is a "law." But sometimes the mechanical force can assist the motion. Use your head instead of just your mouth. OH, and Lenz law is not "universally accepted in the scientific community. There are MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.

Even the individual in your famous "Thane debunk video" shows this. As does the video I posted in post 1562, which you chose to ignore. In BOTH cases the induced magnetic field assists the motion rather than opposing it, which is why you get "speed up under load." If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs. YOU CAN'T. So once again you are wrong, and once again you will attempt to divert the conversation to make yourself appear knowledgeable, when in reality, you don't know Jack. And Jack would be ashamed to say he knows you!

But you have a good day now. We're all aware of the world you live in where all laws must be followed to the letter. It's called a BOX.

Turion,

You, and your "MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion", are misinterpreting some phenomena and drawing an erroneous conclusion, which is irrelevant to your claimed free energy device.

You ask "If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs."

I've given you my opinion and the debunker video supports my opinion . The opposing force is not eliminated but rather additional losses are created from a resonance at the "apparent" no-load condition. When the coil is connected to the load, the resonant frequency changes thereby reducing system loss and reducing the torque.

Notice that I call it my opinion. It is supported by some evidence and not dependent on breaking laws. Speed-up-under-load is little more than a curiosity. It certainly has never been shown to cause more output power developed than required input power.
bi

[Turion]

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. Who told you reactions can't be a law? Lenz Law is universally accepted in the scientific community. You can bad-mouth the Law all you want, as you do with Newton's Laws, but the Laws stand on their own merits, as does truth, and not your interpretation.

bi

Lenz's law states that the current induced in a circuit due to a change in a magnetic field is directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion. That final part of Lenz "law" is what can be engineered around. The fact that it CAN be engineered around is what makes it a reaction and NOT a law. If it was a LAW, the mechanical force would always oppose the motion because it is a "law." But sometimes the mechanical force can assist the motion. Use your head instead of just your mouth. OH, and Lenz law is not "universally accepted in the scientific community. There are MANY experienced electrical engineers who work in transformer design who understand how to engineer Lenz out, and that the magnetic field does NOT have to be directed to oppose the change in flux and to exert a mechanical force which opposes the motion.

Even the individual in your famous "Thane debunk video" shows this. As does the video I posted in post 1562, which you chose to ignore. In BOTH cases the induced magnetic field assists the motion rather than opposing it, which is why you get "speed up under load." If the mechanical force opposes the motion in these two videos, please explain how speed up under load occurs. YOU CAN'T. So once again you are wrong, and once again you will attempt to divert the conversation to make yourself appear knowledgeable, when in reality, you don't know Jack. And Jack would be ashamed to say he knows you!

But you have a good day now. We're all aware of the world you live in where all laws must be followed to the letter. It's called a BOX.

[BroMikey]

Truth stands on its own merit. I see little of it coming from you.

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. ; bi

Dave has always feared the big oil and we can understand. I say we, not you. You are failing to hear the truth. Dave is right and you are incorrect. New reeducation programs are coming for those who want to understand the real truth. You may get involved. Schools will be coming to help you past the programmed stumbling blocks placed in your way so that you will fall. Are you willing to be taught?

At present people are being paid to spread whatever doctrine. Soon you can be paid to spread all doctrines. If money is your goal then you are so shallow that you will be laughable. Money is the cheapest thing you will ever have.

[bistander]

Alas, poor bistander must once again fall back on the instance where I made a mistake about a battery I had not completely taken apart to prove his manhood. If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law, it can be engineered around as I have said. So we agree on that now. Finally you accept the truth.
...

Truth stands on its own merit. I see little of it coming from you.

You say "If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law". That's stupid. Who told you reactions can't be a law? Lenz Law is universally accepted in the scientific community. You can bad-mouth the Law all you want, as you do with Newton's Laws, but the Laws stand on their own merits, as does truth, and not your interpretation.

bi

[Turion]

Alas, poor bistander must once again fall back on the instance where I made a mistake about a battery I had not completely taken apart to prove his manhood. If Lenz is a reaction, NOT a law, it can be engineered around as I have said. So we agree on that now. Finally you accept the truth.

Quantum, you wanted some numbers. Here is a simple experiment where he gives you all the data you have asked for and I don't have to waste my time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSCIws7zppU

Oh, and he does it with a monocular coil. Like I have said. ANY coil will speed up under load at the correct frequency.

[BroMikey]

There's no way to mess with the process, it works according to the known rules. Maxwell and Einstein were two bright bulbs.

https://youtu.be/1FE0Z4lov7Y

Don't forget to put that tooth under your pillow for your Fairy Godmother to have. More of that here in video

[bistander]

bi,
You're putting words in my mouth again. Lenz is a reaction. That's what I have always said. Disprove it if you can. But, uh, you can't, because I am correct. You're just somebody who doesn't do the experimenting and relies on Wikipedia. And whenever you are wrong, like NOW, you divert the discussion.

Quantum. You are correct. Lenz works according to the known rules. Which is exactly HOW you engineer around it. Do you get the same amount of magnetism out of an electromagnet if you change the voltage input? If you put two miles worth of small wire on a steel rod instead of 100 feet and apply the same voltage, does that rod turn into an electromagnet at the same rate of speed as with 100 feet of wire? Are these examples "messing with the process"? They are changing the conditions. The rules still apply. If you don't understand what you are dealing with and have not done the experiments, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is? You can't. All you can do is quote Wikipedia. Good luck with that.

If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always gotten.

Turion,

What words did I put in your mouth?

You just did it to me. Here. I never said Lenz wasn't a reaction. Show me where I said that. But your statements "Lenz is a reaction. That's what I have always said. Disprove it if you can. But, uh, you can't, because I am correct." infer that I have.

I wonder if you can correctly answer your question. "If you put two miles worth of small wire on a steel rod instead of 100 feet and apply the same voltage, does that rod turn into an electromagnet at the same rate of speed as with 100 feet of wire?"

You ask "If you don't understand what you are dealing with and have not done the experiments, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is?"

I ask: If you don't understand what you are dealing with, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is by experimenting? In other words: You misinterpret what you see on your bench because you don't know what you're doing and have little or no knowledge of the fundamentals. Need we count to six again?

Ever get your LCR meter to measure your coil?

bi

[Turion]

bi,
You're putting words in my mouth again. Lenz is a reaction. That's what I have always said. Disprove it if you can. But, uh, you can't, because I am correct. You're just somebody who doesn't do the experimenting and relies on Wikipedia. And whenever you are wrong, like NOW, you divert the discussion.

Quantum. You are correct. Lenz works according to the known rules. Which is exactly HOW you engineer around it. Do you get the same amount of magnetism out of an electromagnet if you change the voltage input? If you put two miles worth of small wire on a steel rod instead of 100 feet and apply the same voltage, does that rod turn into an electromagnet at the same rate of speed as with 100 feet of wire? Are these examples "messing with the process"? They are changing the conditions. The rules still apply. If you don't understand what you are dealing with and have not done the experiments, how can you POSSIBLY know what the truth is? You can't. All you can do is quote Wikipedia. Good luck with that.

If you always do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always gotten.

[Quantum_well]

There's no way to mess with the process, it works according to the known rules. Maxwell and Einstein were two bright bulbs.

https://youtu.be/1FE0Z4lov7Y

[bistander]

Uh, no. You are incapable of understanding anyway, but for those who ARE, I will post some information AGAIN. Because Lenz is a reaction, there is NO SET SPEED. What is the speed off your car? It doesn't have a "speed" yet its speed can be measured at any given point in time. Your examples of light and sound are constants, and you know that. Lenz is NOT a constant. It is a reaction, Because it is a REACTION, Lenz has different speeds depending on the conditions. Just like rust speeds up its reaction or slows down depending on conditions. I have listed the conditions a dozen times at least. If you haven't gotten it yet, you never will. You haven't "challenged" anything I have done. All you do is talk, talk, talk. Where is that 7th grade science experiment you were going to do? You're the one who said you would do it, remember? You haven't done a single experiment that disproves anything I've said about this generator and how it works. You can't. All you can do is quote wikipedia. Mind over matter. I don't mind and YOU don't matter.

I will present my WORKING GENERATOR that takes advantage of all the principles I have disclosed at the conference. What will you do then? LOL

You won't get more real power output than power input. Never did; never will. You'll miss the conference again or attend with only excuses, not proof of your claimed 2000 watts output using 300 watts input. So, what will I do then? I'll say I told you so.

you say:
"What is the speed off your car? It doesn't have a "speed" yet its speed can be measured at any given point in time."

So you consider Lenz to be an object, like a car. Alrighty then.
bi

[Turion]

Uh, no. You are incapable of understanding anyway, but for those who ARE, I will post some information AGAIN. Because Lenz is a reaction, there is NO SET SPEED. What is the speed off your car? It doesn't have a "speed" yet its speed can be measured at any given point in time. Your examples of light and sound are constants, and you know that. Lenz is NOT a constant. It is a reaction, Because it is a REACTION, Lenz has different speeds depending on the conditions. Just like rust speeds up its reaction or slows down depending on conditions. I have listed the conditions a dozen times at least. If you haven't gotten it yet, you never will. You haven't "challenged" anything I have done. All you do is talk, talk, talk. Where is that 7th grade science experiment you were going to do? You're the one who said you would do it, remember? You haven't done a single experiment that disproves anything I've said about this generator and how it works. You can't. All you can do is quote wikipedia. Mind over matter. I don't mind and YOU don't matter.

I will present my WORKING GENERATOR that takes advantage of all the principles I have disclosed at the conference. What will you do then? LOL

[bistander]

Hey bi,
Get a clue yet? Obviously NOT. You either cannot read, are incapable of understanding or choose to obfuscate despite the facts. There is no such thing as “the speed of Lenz.” That’s like asking “what is the speed of rust”? (Oxidation) Put a piece of metal on the shelf in your shop and wait for rust to form. Put it out in the weather and it might rust a bit faster. What do you think? Lenz is a reaction that takes place under certain conditions and can be affected by a change in those conditions. I have listed the factors I have found that affect how rapidly it occurs. There may be others. I know this is beyond you, but it’s a fact despite what you have been taught. Get used to it.

You say:
"There is no such thing as “the speed of Lenz."
Ah, but there is. Just like there is a speed of light. Or speed of sound. So when you say you out run it, you infer you're doing something faster than that at which Lenz occurs, beating it to the punch, so-to-speak, or traveling faster than it travels. No, it's not like oxidation or a chemical reaction.

Out running Lenz. You just make this BS up. Then give more BS when legitimately challenged.

Then you say "I have listed the factors I have found that affect how rapidly it occurs."
So, how rapidly does it occur? And for the benefit of us all, please list your factors again or provide link to where you have listed them.

Thanks,
bi

[Turion]

Hey bi,
Get a clue yet? Obviously NOT. You either cannot read, are incapable of understanding or choose to obfuscate despite the facts. There is no such thing as “the speed of Lenz.” That’s like asking “what is the speed of rust”? (Oxidation) Put a piece of metal on the shelf in your shop and wait for rust to form. Put it out in the weather and it might rust a bit faster. What do you think? Lenz is a reaction that takes place under certain conditions and can be affected by a change in those conditions. I have listed the factors I have found that affect how rapidly it occurs. There may be others. I know this is beyond you, but it’s a fact despite what you have been taught. Get used to it.