The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

bi,
In other words, if I have told the truth, you've just admitted to your guilt. Come out, come out wherever you are.

Stop whining

More lies.

My goodness dave, I would never call you bad name as you suggest. Anyway people here is Dave's late video. I just wanted to know if Turion really cared for me. Now I know.

hey dave you are doing better. What does the motor pull with all 12 coils? That looks like an induction motor. This is a whole nother world. Sweet. Don't be to hard on me, I will make it up to you.

[BroMikey]

Well, I thought watts was a measure of joules per second, so If I show the watts the motor is consuming (A) compared to the watts the load is consuming (B) and B is many times more than A, that SHOULD be all the proof required shouldn't it?

Yes. Show the numbers if you know how to do that. No degeneration intended as this may not be inside the scope of your expertise. A watt meter is $10 but I don't know if these are so accurate since 500hz or 1000hz on the ac side will not report right. Going back to dc is all I can do here to properly measure. This is why a battery is important.

Butter ya later

[bistander]

My little note on how Nikola Tesla's electric car could have been arranged.
https://rakatskiy.blogspot.com/2021/...ctric-car.html

Hi Rakarskiy,
Sorry to reply here but I don't post on the other thread. Anyway, I read your article. I have one of those motor dynamo DC to AC converters. It's an older model RediLine.
You never get more output power than input power.
Here's the link to the manual.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/850579/Pacific-Scientific-Redi-Line-Da12a.html

Screenshot_20210223-010517.png

[Quantum_well]

I wasn't in doubt as to the actual definition of a joule. My confusion comes from trying to understand how the
"Kinetic energy" is a useful measurement. Kinetic energy has to do with movement and mass.

[Quantum_well]

Somebody help me out. Re Heins "free lunch".
What we're interested in is power " rate of doing work" How can one relate kinetic energy to power? I could accelerate a flywheel to 1100 joules in a second or maybe a week.

[Rakarskiy]

Hi Rakarskiy,
Sorry to reply here but I don't post on the other thread. Anyway, I read your article. I have one of those motor dynamo DC to AC converters. It's an older model RediLine.
You never get more output power than input power.
Here's the link to the manual.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/850579/Pacific-Scientific-Redi-Line-Da12a.html

Screenshot_20210223-010517.png

Электромашинный усилитель — амплидин | Техника и Программы (nauchebe.net)
"Amplidin is used in servomechanisms and industrial electronic installations to amplify the relatively weak electrical energy supplied to its windings. Amplidin, or electrical machine amplifier, is much superior to conventional generators in terms of its power amplification characteristics. A DC generator can be thought of as an amplifying device since small changes in the excitation current cause much larger changes in the output current. Amplidin gain significantly exceeds the gain that can be obtained when energy from one generator is supplied to the excitation winding of the second, more powerful generator for amplification. If we compare a conventional generator with amplidin, then the power gain of the amplidin can be 25,000 - 50,000, while the gain of a conventional dc generator is in the range of about 25 - 100. Thus, the power supplied to the excitation winding of the amplidin can be only several watts, while the output power is more than 20,000 watts. The amplidin circuit is shown in Fig. 13.13. The top and bottom brushes are short-circuited as shown to allow high currents to flow in this circuit. Therefore, if before the brushes wereclosed, the output current was 100 A at an excitation current of ~ 4 A, then with short-circuited brushes, the excitation current equal to -0.2 A will be sufficient to obtain the same value of 100 A."

I think if it is possible and officially studied in the discipline of electromechanical machines, the creation of the device described in the article is a purely engineering matter.

[lotec]

There were some interesting vids floating around on youtube a while back, using universal motors as rotary transformers. Especially when the output was rectified for flyback.

[bistander]

That is a video of Greyland and his friends running a version of the generator that he has at his shop. It is one of my machines. It has 12 coils on the machine-- six on each side of the rotor. Each coil is connected in series with a coil on the opposite side of the rotor directly across from it, so that a rotor magnet comes between the two connected coils. At the correct RPM those coils put out about 130 volts at 1.5 amps. Those numbers are for THAT machine with a different rotor. The original rotor had six 2” diameter by 1/4 thick neo magnets. The current rotor has twelve 3/4 x 3/4 magnets on it, and I have not tested that output. That is what Greyland is attempting to do in the videos he is making as he tries to get EVERYTHING working. The damn machine never held together long enough to do any decent test runs, which is why I moved it to Greyland’s shop and LEFT it there. I was really tired of bringing it home and having it run for five minutes before something else went wrong, and then having to take it BACK to his shop 2 1/2 hours away. Not going there during COVID anyway.

He made that video for ME, not for the public. It was to show me the amps going to each light. Only ONE coil pair was in the ball park, and it was causing the motor to speed up- not what we want. The rest were causing the motor to slow down. Not good either. But it DOES show that coils that are not “neutral” (in resonance) will affect the motor. They will either cause it to slow down and draw more amps, or they will cause it to speed up and draw fewer amps.


You may not believe in resonance. I don't care. That is a term the EE used to describe what is happening. I am not an EE. I know what I know from experiments I have done on the bench. I will leave the explanations to someone else. What I WILL talk about is effects. When you do one thing, something happens. When you do something else, the results change. Those changes, those effects, are visible and measurable, so what I want to talk about is the “EFFECTS” I am seeing on the bench. They are not lies. Every single one can be verified with simple experiments. Some of the “effects” are visible in the video, and that is what I commented on and will comment on again.


I can start my motor up and spin the rotor up to speed. (The machine in Greyland's shop) On start up, the amp draw is greater than my 30 amp meter, so I have no idea how many amps it is pulling, but I know that when it settles down and the rotor is up to speed, the amp draw of the motor is around 7 amps at 36 volts, or 252 watts.


Now, if I start shoving coils into the coil holders, the amp draw of the motor begins to go up and the rpm of the motor goes down. In the Thane debunking video the individual says that Tesla coils actually cause MORE of an amp draw than standard coils, which is the reason he says they are bad. He shows the watts drawn by the motor with no coil in place, with a standard coil in place, and with a Tesla style coil in place, so THERE is your proof that every coil added causes an increase in what the motor draws in watts. What good is speed up under load if the coil had drug the motor down in the first place? I say listen and LEARN. When all my coils unloaded are in place, the amp draw on the motor is over 27 amps which is right at the LIMIT for the MY1020 razor scooter motor. If a (standard) coil is put under load the motor draws MORE amps, and you run the risk of burning up the motor. I have burnt up several. Now bistander says the next step makes no difference to the output of the system, so is of no value, but he is about as dead wrong as a human can be and still be alive. What I learned is that if I now adjust my offsetting magnets properly (even on that rattle trap piece of crap machine) I can lower the amp draw back down to around 9-10 amps, and the RPM of the motor is back up almost to where it was before the coils were put in place. Because the motor is turning at a higher RPM, the coils output more. Because the amp draw has gone back down, I save on input to the drive motor. If these two things don't contribute to the “Output” of the generator, what does? This is why I have no patience for someone like bi, who will not listen. These are VISIBLE, MEASURABLE effects that he could see for himself if he would shut his mouth and build something. I posted a video SHOWING the 7 amp draw of the machine with no coils and than another video of the machine with SOME of the coils in place and the amp draw had gone up. I believe to around 16 or 17 amps. I never showed that it went all the way to 27 amps, but it did. Believe me or don't. It doesn't matter because I know what the TRUTH is. Then I showed a video of it running with ALL the coils in place and the magnets adjusted and it was running at 10-12 amps. (I don't remember exactly, but with further adjustment,he got it down to 9 amps) I still have all those videos. This is real. It is important. And it makes a huge difference in inputs and outputs.


So now we are turning a rotor with all the coils in place and it is costing us barely more than it did to run the machine with NO coils in place. You can't DO THAT with a machine like THIS without the offsetting magnets. I guarantee it. Millions have been spent in research on generator design to LESSEN this 'effect" And if I add more unloaded coils, what does it cost me when I can offset them with the magnets? Not MUCH. And that's the point.


Does it MATTER that the Tesla style coils cost MORE to put in place (as per the debunk video) than the standard coils do? Not when I can bring the cost down to almost NOTHING with the offsetting magnets. Do I care what electrical or scientific principles are involved? Do I care what the correct terms are? Do I care that I don't know everything about electronics that bi knows? No. All I care about is the effect.


So now I load the coils. If they were STANDARD coils, what would happen? Listen to the motor in the video you were asking about when he switches on all the coils. The motor begins to bog down. The RPM goes down and the amp draw goes up. Not so good. It would continue to slow down and the amp draw would continue to climb until the motor smoked. I promise. Try it if you have a motor to spare. But the ONE coil pair he has actually causes the motor to speed up and the amp draw to go DOWN. We don't want that EITHER, because the coils generate the most power when they are NEUTRAL. What we want is coils that, when we flip the switch, put out maximum power and have NO EFFECT whatsoever on the performance of the motor. Why? Because we can have 12 or 15 or 50 of them around the rotor. If they all have offsetting magnets and do not affect the motor, all we get is an INCREASE in power for the same output. THAT IS EFFICIENCY. SO in the video, that coil lit up the light, just like the other coils, only it did NOT slow down the motor. What's THAT worth?


Every SINGLE one of the things I have stated here can be tested. Every single one of them can be verified or debunked. WHY is no generator currently driven by an electric motor? I have shown you the two reasons. Both of them are addressed by this machine. It works. bi can blabber all day long but he cannot disprove what I have seen in front of me on the bench and YOU can see it too.


In the debunking video he admitted that 'speed up under load” coils are real. He just believes they are worthless. I have explained his reason, and shown why he is incorrect. Test it. There isn't ANYTHING I have said that cannot be proven with simple tests. Things a 7th grader could do. Tha is if a 7th grader could build a rotor out of wood, like I did, and coil l bobbins out of wood, like I did (with iron cores, and wind three little coils. But instead, I have gotten ten years of arguments. I can't BELIEVE we don't have any researchers with an open enough mind to wind two lousy coils and build a rotor and PROVE that everything I have said is real. The smaller the build and the smaller the motor the more OBVIOUS it becomes. Someone could take that simple Bedini 5 coil plastic motor, set up one coil as a drive coil and the rest (or at least some of them) as generator coils and TEST the offsetting magnet idea. This is not rocket science. It is simple PHYSICS. Just look at the effects. Find an effect that works for you and figure out how to take advantage of it.

That's it. That's all there is. It is simple. If you cannot build it, I feel sorry for you. If you cannot test it or refuse to test it, shame on you. You shouldn't even BE on a forum like this.

Nice post Turion. I'll save it over here for reference later.
bi

[bistander]

I should add something to all that, and no disrespect to Thane intended, because I know he has coils that out perform ANYTHING I have built, but they would HAVE to. I say this because I BUILT the generator with 12 coils on it that are ALL neutral. Meaning they output the MAX amount possible for those coils. The motor was drawing almost 1,000 watts to run, and was right on the ragged edge of burning up. The speed had dropped down to the point where the output of the coils didn't cover the input to the motor. No OU. Not even close. And that was with 12 speed up under load coils. This was BEFORE I had the neutralizing magnets. I still have that original machine which doesn't even have PLACES on it for neutralizing magnets. It didn't give me what I was searching for.

Now I could adjust the coils on that machine and get them to assist the motor, but at the cost of the output going down, so it STILL didn't output more than the input. The very BEST I could do was to get the coils to REALLY speed up the motor to the point that its amps draw was back down to around where it should be and its RPM was close to the rated speed, BUT there was definitely no output above the input. And believe me I tried everything I could think of. For almost a year I worked on it. Then I went looking for a solution to the motor drawing 1000 watts to run, and I found a patent that addressed that issue with magnetic neutralization. So I incorporated THAT into my design and it worked.

I believe what I see on the bench. I can't replicate Thane's stuff because he doesn't share the construction of his coils. I know, because I have ASKED and been told "No" I believe what I can see for myself. Not what someone tells me is true. I give them the benefit of the doubt BUT then I build it to see for myself. Or at least I USED to. No more going down all those different paths for me. I do not know if Thane's stuff works or not. I cannot replicate it and therefore I have NO opinion. But I DO have questions.

Now I have my generator, which I know works, and I have tech with no moving parts based on what we learned with the 3 battery stuff that is way more productive. So I don't need or want anybody else's stuff. I WOULD like to see how Thane's coils work with magnetic neutralization thrown in, but that is already in progress, and some day I will find out. Someone else is working on that who has first hand knowledge of Thane's technology, so I will leave it up to them.

I am not trying to discourage you bro, but what you need to figure out is how to build a coil that puts out WAY more than 130 volts at 1.5 amps for an input to the motor of 360-400 watts. Until you do that, you will NEVER reach OU without magnetic neutralization. Thane may know how to do that and good for him.I couldn't figure it out. And I'm DONE with this project except for presenting at the conference.

A follow up post by Turion. Thanks. I'll save it here also.
bi

[Memphis]

Hi guys, I'm Memphis, I was following the discussion, and sorry if I get in the way, but I would like to try to make the machine to see if you can really build an alternator that is able to produce more than what it absorbs to be able to use it for home power supply. It is obvious that only with theories you will not get anywhere, so I think it is better to put ideas into practice if they have a minimum of foundation. I am a person who likes to act, ... can someone give me some advice for the pattern to follow, or is he willing to help me?

[Turion]

Memphis,
If you have “followed the discussion” you would know this is not just theory. Sixteen versions of this machine have been built. Also, this “discussion” has been going on for years before you joined the forum. LOL. Here is a link to the assembly video series for the current version. On my YouTube channel are many videos of other versions. I actually have a ton of videos on there that are private which I am going to make public, so sometime tonight there will be many more videos available. Probably around 30 of them. NONE were made for the public. They were for a couple other guys who were building also.

https://youtu.be/i3f3qFwTId0

Good luck. You will need it. I am always happy to answer any questions I can about construction. Be safe. Neo magnets can be incredibly dangerous as can ANYTHING with high speed moving parts.

Now if you want to make a really SMALL inexpensive unit just to prove the concepts are real, I can show you how to do that too. I have no videos of that prototype, but it’s in a box on the shelf and I can drag it out.

[alexelectric]

Thank you Mr. Dave, for the videos and the information, everything illustrates, and can continue to improve, I learn a lot from your experience.

If the generator that Thane shows, does not drag the magnets with the core, I think that the repulsion of the generation is greater than said nucleo-magnet drag, also Thane uses the U-shaped coils, and their wiring configuration, I think everything that compensates to overcome the magnetic drag, and also the elements that factors that have already been mentioned a lot in this forum, on the capacitance, inductance, straightness, impedance.

Mr. Mike has already done tests of the Thane coil configurations, and he comments that you have to put the magnets closer to each other, among other things.

Then I tell you more about what I have done

[bistander]

Hi guys, I'm Memphis, I was following the discussion, and sorry if I get in the way, but I would like to try to make the machine to see if you can really build an alternator that is able to produce more than what it absorbs to be able to use it for home power supply. It is obvious that only with theories you will not get anywhere, so I think it is better to put ideas into practice if they have a minimum of foundation. I am a person who likes to act, ... can someone give me some advice for the pattern to follow, or is he willing to help me?

Hi Memphis,
You're welcome to use use this thread if you want. Turion, the o.u. generator champion, appears to watch this thread and hopefully will help you. He claims to have "given away" all that is needed to replicate the device but has never actually proven or demonstrated that real output power exceeds input power. Nobody else has either. It'd be great if you could. However you'll not be able to. But don't let that discourage you.
Good luck. Seriously.
Regards,
bi

[Turion]

So bi, which part of the extensive post I just made is a lie? Or is it all just a lie? Let’s be specific now. Go on, you can do it. Post the words that are a lie right here.

[Memphis]

Thanks for the encouragement guys, and I apologize if I was unable to participate in the discussion earlier, but I was struggling with other devices that I tried to replicate, with disappointing results, lately I was trying to create a conduction boiler, with low consumption from use for home heating, and in the various researches I came across Thane Heins transformers (possibly to be adopted as power amplifiers), and this brought me among you. Scrolling through the various posts, I saw that there would also be the possibility of being able to use an alternator with an output higher than its consumption, therefore in excess to be redirected elsewhere.