The bistander thread

[Turion]

bro,
Do you now have, or have you EVER had a machine running with 12 coils or 24 coils on it?

[BroMikey]

What some contributors fail to acknowledge is that every coil under load should not increase drive motor input current. The load should assist the rotor so drive amps go lower. What I keep hearing like a loose screw or rattling fence is that without opposition magnets the coil slow the rotor down, this is false. My experiments clearly show that loading of a coil lowers amp draw, not increase it. As more coils are adding say 12-24 coils the idling rotor current drive motor input is higher. With all 24 coils loaded the input goes down slightly or negligibly
or no change from the initial idling current drive motor input power.

It is true that idling current it higher for 1 coil than for 2 coil and higher for 48 coils due to core cogging but this is all that the drive motor with ever draw upon engaging each coil.

A conventional coil slows the rotor down, we are not using a standard design. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Sounds like people lost in the tunnels.

[Turion]

What some contributors fail to acknowledge is that every coil under load causes the motor to draw significant amps to continue at speed, and in any machine with a large number of coils that amp draw can be MASSIVE without “speed up under load” coils.

[Quantum_well]

What some experimenters fail to acknowledge is that "speed up under load" is actually the neutralisation of a magnetic brake. The only case I can see it being of any relevance is where your device operating at or very near 100% efficiency.

[bistander]

Green Revolution
Debunked
DELAYED LENZ, SHORTED COIL, ACCELERATION EFFECT

Ultimately there is only one truth and one correct outcome. To date no one has been able to demonstrate consistently or in a manner that is accepted of any device like this example producing more energy than what was going in. debates will rage regard testing methodologies and data interpretation. No practicle device has ever been produced or put in to production or use. That is the reality


We should however continue to research these anomalies and effects. To make progress we must also face the truth about what we are seeing. Rosemary Ainslie is a classic case of not accepting peer review and explanations from others far more qualified than herself or followers. It is not good perpetuating something based on a false premise or bad measurements. The argument here is not about criticizing or discouraging people, but rather sticking to science and correct science. There is no room more mysticism, mythology.

When a member copies and pastes text into his post, they should be required to post the source. It wasn't difficult, but took a little time to find:
https://revolution-green.com/debunke...on-effect/amp/
bi

[Quantum_well]

Bi thank you for enlightening me on "stacking ". Matter settled.
https://youtu.be/8x0LnLq17dc

[Quantum_well]

I always wondered how these work.
https://youtu.be/HGWJg7vAYBI

[bistander]

Figuring out who is correct and who doesn't know squat is always the problem on the forum. I have found that the BENCH is the source of truth.

Curious how you would use the bench to determine which one of us knows squat about laminations. Please explain the procedure that you'd use and why you wouldn't research the literature and/or ask an expert.

...
Laminates keep the material from becoming saturated magnetically. When this occurs you get more heat build up and rotation slows. Up in smoke in minutes.

... Laminations actually, for equivalent volume, saturate a bit sooner than solid cores. Typically a small amount, percent or so. Small price to pay for energy saved in loss reduction.
...

Please give your opinion. Who is correct? Does laminated material prevent a core from magnetic saturation or saturate a bit sooner than a solid core by what is commonly referred to as the stacking factor in electric machine design?

Hint: Google search "magnetic core stacking factor"

Regards,
bi

[Quantum_well]

Small engine ignition. A control coil on the leading leg of the core picks up a tiny voltage and a Darlington completes the primary circuit. When the control coil voltage falls the Darlington breaks the primary and you get your spark. By some means auto advance is a natural feature. A stepped flywheel key is a bit of a timing option.

[Turion]

Figuring out who is correct and who doesn't know squat is always the problem on the forum. I have found that the BENCH is the source of truth.

[alexelectric]

Who do I believe? Bistander says laminated cores saturate sooner and BroMikey says laminates don't saturate.
Can they both be right?

From what you report here in the forum, there are some answers, what is missing or doubted, or that does not coincide, we proceed to investigate the various sources of information, update ourselves and continue learning new things, concepts, phenomena, variables, materials, energetic configurations, etc,

[Quantum_well]

Who do I believe? Bistander says laminated cores saturate sooner and BroMikey says laminates don't saturate.
Can they both be right?

[Quantum_well]

Soft magnetic composite cores could be useful if they are carefully designed and manufactured. They do have eddy currents, two
main types, intra particle currents and inter particle currents.

[bistander]

Eddy currents are responsible for braking effect. I think that is why electric machines have laminated cores which help to avoid the current flow. What would you say bistander?

Eddy currents, and hysteresis losses, are responsible for magnetic drag, which is torque opposing rotation in rotoray machines. You can call this a braking effect. Actually it is core loss. Eddy current brakes are quite useful because they have no wear (friction) surface.

Laminations are used for cores to reduce eddy currents. Laminations actually, for equivalent volume, saturate a bit sooner than solid cores. Typically a small amount, percent or so. Small price to pay for energy saved in loss reduction.

The classic example of magnetic drag is dropping a magnet down a copper pipe. The "drag" is demonstrated by the fact that it falls at a slower rate than if it were dropped down a plastic pipe. Note that in this example, there is no attractive force to a core involved.

Regards,
bi

[BroMikey]

Eddy currents are responsible for braking effect. I think that is why electric machines have laminated cores which help to avoid the current flow. What would you say bistander?

You can't get very far speculating and asking another person who is the same as you to validate. You must do some experimentation to form a more rounded statement.

Laminates keep the material from becoming saturated magnetically. When this occurs you get more heat build up and rotation slows. Up in smoke in minutes.