The bistander thread

[dragon]

Motor-generators, commonly called M-G sets, are by no means "ridiculously impractical". They have been used for various applications for over a hundred years and many still used today, effectively and efficiently. These M-G sets are a combination of a standard electric motor and standard generator coupled together on the shaft.

Regards,

bi

Dynamotor from the 1950's - can still buy them ...

[Turion]

DC Motor with AC Generator

bi,
MY generator puts out over 2000 watts at a cost of less than 300 watts. What are the operating specs of these wonderful machines you mention? Don't bother to look it up. I already have one I inherited from my dad. They put out around 27% of that at 3 times the cost. I guess you can call that "effective and efficient" if you want. They have their uses, especially when it's all you got.

I HAVE shown the coils speeding up under load, and I HAVE demonstrated magnetic neutralization. So have others. There are folks who understand that it works. What I have NOT done is show YOU my big machine running with inputs and outputs. And I never will.

[bistander]

Irrelevant

bi,
MY generator puts out over 2000 watts at a cost of less than 300 watts. What are the operating specs of these wonderful machines you mention? Don't bother to look it up. I already have one I inherited from my dad. They put out around 27% of that at 3 times the cost. I guess you can call that "effective and efficient" if you want. They have their uses, especially when it's all you got.

I HAVE shown the coils speeding up under load, and I HAVE demonstrated magnetic neutralization. So have others. There are folks who understand that it works. What I have NOT done is show YOU my big machine running with inputs and outputs. And I never will.

Hi Turion,

I HAVE shown the coils speeding up under load, and I HAVE demonstrated magnetic neutralization. So have others.

These two things are irrelevant to the claims you've made here today, which are that you can add load to the output of the generator without increasing the power input and that winding a generator coil differently you can decrease the input by 60% for the same output.

You can't demonstrate those claims, can you?

I don't care about speed up under load and your anticogging technique. And I am not saying that you can't do those things. But those things don't matter when it comes to real power output and power input.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

He wouldn't understand what he was looking at anyway.
All these guys do is say what the book says.Da book say you
can not do that. The books says you have fooled yerself

Only thing that matter to Bi is "Da book says" the rest don't matter
you see. He don't care about your work other thasn to say it don't work.
Low IQ Bi

[Turion]

Statement

Just out of curiosity, where did I say I can decrease the input by 60% for the same output by "winding a coil differently"? I assume you are talking about the amp draw numbers I quoted for correct coils vs incorrect coils? Is that it? I never said that. The cost for turning a rotor remains the same. All I get to do is add more coils without INCREASING that cost.

[bistander]

60%

Just out of curiosity, where did I say I can decrease the input by 60% for the same output by "winding a coil differently"? I assume you are talking about the amp draw numbers I quoted for correct coils vs incorrect coils? Is that it? I never said that. The cost for turning a rotor remains the same. All I get to do is add more coils without INCREASING that cost.

My generator running at full speed and suddenly having all the coils connected to a load would bog down and draw over 30 amps, (on my 30 amp in line shunted meter.). With properly wound coils it draws 12 amps in the same condition.

Same condition, 30A -> 12A is 60% reduction of input power. At least the way I read it.

bi

[Turion]

Incorrect assumptions

bi,

You need to learn to read. It only costs 12 amps at 24 volts to turn the rotor 2800 RPM with all the magnets on it. I am not reducing ANYTHING by winding the coils correctly. I am simply using what I know to eliminate the increased amp draw by the motor when coils which are wound INCORRECTLY are placed near the rotor. Simple. Would you rather I increase the required amp draw by 60% just to make you happy?

[bistander]

Confusion

bi,

You need to learn to read. It only costs 12 amps at 24 volts to turn the rotor 2800 RPM with all the magnets on it. I am not reducing ANYTHING by winding the coils correctly. I am simply using what I know to eliminate the increased amp draw by the motor when coils which are wound INCORRECTLY are placed near the rotor. Simple. Would you rather I increase the required amp draw by 60% just to make you happy?

No, I'd rather you demonstrate your claims instead of confusing the issue with double talk.

bi

[Turion]

Lol

Whe my errors make me look bad, you’re the first to point them out. But when my errors are to YOUR advantage, you simply ignore them. If a motor can turn a rotor with magnets on it running on 24 volts at 12 amps with the correct coils in place, but needs over 30 amps to do it with INCORRECTLY wound coils in place, isn’t that a BIT more than a 60% increase? More like 250% increase? What happened to those math checking skills? And exactly what about this is double talk. It is exactly what I have said all along. I have given this example SEVERAL times now. But when it makes YOU look bad, you deem it double talk.

And by the way, the increase in amp draw from 12 amps to over 30 amps has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the coils are wound. It takes place from the addition of the iron cores of the 12 coils being placed in proximity to the rotor magnets. That increase will take place whether the coils are wound correctly or NOT. YOU’RE the one who said it had to do with how coils are wound and I just played along to see where you were going. Just wanted to see if you have been paying ANY attention or if your only purpose is to try to distort the truth. I guess I have my answer.

[bistander]

Percentage math

Whe my errors make me look bad, you’re the first to point them out. But when my errors are to YOUR advantage, you simply ignore them. If a motor can turn a rotor with magnets on it running on 24 volts at 12 amps with the correct coils in place, but needs over 30 amps to do it with INCORRECTLY wound coils in place, isn’t that a BIT more than a 60% increase? More like 250% increase? What happened to those math checking skills? And exactly what about this is double talk. It is exactly what I have said all along. I have given this example SEVERAL times now. But when it makes YOU look bad, you deem it double talk.

And by the way, the increase in amp draw from 12 amps to over 30 amps has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the coils are wound. It takes place from the addition of the iron cores of the 12 coils being placed in proximity to the rotor magnets. That increase will take place whether the coils are wound correctly or NOT. YOU’RE the one who said it had to do with how coils are wound and I just played along to see where you were going. Just wanted to see if you have been paying ANY attention or if your only purpose is to try to distort the truth. I guess I have my answer.

My generator running at full speed and suddenly having all the coils connected to a load would bog down and draw over 30 amps, (on my 30 amp in line shunted meter.). With properly wound coils it draws 12 amps in the same condition.

You say:
Your generator draws over 30 amps. With differently wound coils, it draws 12 amps.

30 amps. Then down to 12 amps.

18 amps less.

30 amps originally.

18 divided by 30 equals 0.6.

0.6 is equal to 60%.

18 is 60% of 30.

30 minus 60% equals 12.

12 is 18 less than 30.

12 is 60% less than 30.

This is what I originally wrote when paraphrasing you:

... that winding a generator coil differently you can decrease the input by 60% for the same output. ...

I never say "increase".

...isn’t that a BIT more than a 60% increase

You brought "increase" into the discussion, not me.

And you said it had to do with coils.

With properly wound coils ...

You can't support your claims, so you intentionally confuse the issue. Just like always.

bi

[bistander]

Math skills

... at 12 amps with the correct coils in place, but needs over 30 amps to do it with INCORRECTLY wound coils in place, isn’t that a BIT more than a 60% increase? More like 250% increase? What happened to those math checking skills? ...

Hi Turion,

I already covered that you originally had referred to a decrease, not increase. You do know the difference, don't you? But considering increases, 12 to 30 is a 150% increase, not 250% increase.

If you have 12 and get 6 more, it is a 50% increase for a total of 18.

If you have 12 and get 12 more, it is a 100% increase for a total of 24.

If you have 12 and get 18 more, it is a 150% increase for a total of 30.

If you have 30 and lose 18, it is a 60% decrease leaving 12.

Funny how that works.

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

Summary

There we go. I knew eventually I’d get you to do some math! LOL

My generator draws 12 amps at 24 volts. Period. The same under full load. I have NO IDEA how many amps it will draw under full load with improperly wound coils. Don’t even want to think about that, so never went looking. It is only when you remove functioning parts of my generator designed to eliminate the magnetic drag between the rotor magnets and the coil cores that the amp draw of the motor climbs to over 30 amps. Amperage will also climb when under full load if not run at the minimum rpm, which means an input less than 24 volts at 12 amps or if the proper coils are replaced with improperly wound coils. This is all I have to say on this subject. When I have it put together again, then I will post some more. I guess that gives you the final word bi.

Dave

[bistander]

More BS

There we go. I knew eventually I’d get you to do some math! LOL

My generator draws 12 amps at 24 volts. Period. The same under full load. I have NO IDEA how many amps it will draw under full load with improperly wound coils. Don’t even want to think about that, so never went looking. It is only when you remove functioning parts of my generator designed to eliminate the magnetic drag between the rotor magnets and the coil cores that the amp draw of the motor climbs to over 30 amps. Amperage will also climb when under full load if not run at the minimum rpm, which means an input less than 24 volts at 12 amps or if the proper coils are replaced with improperly wound coils. This is all I have to say on this subject. When I have it put together again, then I will post some more. I guess that gives you the final word bi.

Dave

You just told us:

... My generator running at full speed and suddenly having all the coils connected to a load would bog down and draw over 30 amps ...

And that by changing coils, it will decrease to 12 amps for the same conditions.

I just requested a demonstration, evidence, proof... you know, something to back up the claim. All you do is mix up words and figures and contradict yourself. First you say coils make the difference, then the coils don't make any difference, just the cores do, now back to the coils making a difference again. And first decrease, then increase, then increase with bad math. You've got some issues. How does anybody take you seriously?

bi

[BroMikey]

You just told us:

And first decrease, then increase, then increase with bad math.
You've got some issues. How does anybody take you seriously?

bi

Turion is always right and if you chose to cloud the data you are no
better than those whose of the past who claim they were in search of
a demo only to remove half the parts once they got it, so they could say

"See I told you it doesn't work"

Get it straight man or go home. You stay confused all of the time, back
and forth, right and left til you can't tell yer back from yer from, BI.

12amps out of 30amps is a 60% reduction? Wow, nice math. Did
you learn anything else?

[Quantum_well]

Too good to be true?

If this is real it's very exciting.
It's obviously based on extrapolation of some sort as testing would have been impossible (time).
If it's legit its wonderful news!

Screenshot_20190928-200235.JVP