The bistander thread

[bistander]

Hypocritical

I still have not heard any science. Where. All I here is that stupid
"Think outside the box" quote with nothing to follow. This all by itself
is a condescending behavior form of speech. Basically calling people
out saying that they should think outside the box is not science.
Show some? Is that to much to ask?

This is my response to Joe.

Thx Sputins
...

BM talks out of both sides of his mouth, as they say. Hypocritical. He doesn't like it when he gets it, but sure dishes it out to my face when I ask Turion to show me science behind or evidence or proof of his claims.

bi

[bistander]

A Turion post talking about me

sticking his nose as far as is possible into the business of others because he has no original thoughts of his own. He never shows up to present anything new. Only magically appears to detract, distract, discredit, provoke, or otherwise impede any kind of progress on any thread on the forum. But at least he has a purpose.

I thought that was the purpose of a forum like this: to get people to interact and share experience, knowledge and opinions. Turion says that I "appear(s) to detract, distract, discredit, provoke, or otherwise impede" but I see it as correcting mistakes and errors, stating truth and fact, providing logical questions, attempting to engage in meaningful discussion and improve the progress of those experimenters and builders while pointing out falsehoods and misdirection which will waste resources. Turion has recently admitted that he doesn't even thoroughly read my posts, just attacks me and defends his position because he's tired of being wrong all the time. He'd see few if any posts from me if he didn't post wrong information and falsehoods and backed up his claims by using the scientific method, logic, evidence and proof.

bi

[Turion]

Summary

bi,
I will freely admit that I have made mistakes in calculations and measurements over the years. I have used terms incorrectly. And I have been wrong about lots of things. Lots of LITTLE things. Which is what YOU jump on to attempt to discredit the work I've done.

But let me put it to you this way...

Is it possible to turn a rotor with magnets on it using a 24 volt motor and have it only draw 12 amps to turn that rotor? I would bet you there are many people here on the forum that would verify that it's possible. Do YOU believe that it is possible or not? Just answer the question. Because if it IS possible, that would be less than 300 watts of input.

And is it possible to build a coil that outputs between 120-130 volts AC at 1.5 amps or more? Is it possible or not? Just answer THAT question. That would be around 163 watts. I'd bet there are a few people on the forum who would support that it is definitely possible. But let's hear YOUR opinion there bi.

So if BOTH those things are possible, and if you say they are not we KNOW you are a liar, then why is it impossible to keep adding coils around the rotor until the total output of the coils exceeds 2000 watts? With an input of less than 300 watts?

I estimate it will take about 12 coils. Please provide us with YOUR explanation of why that is not possible. If you have FACTS that prove it is impossible to continue to add coils around the rotor until the goal of 2000 watts is achieved, what are they? If you know the answer, I'd like to hear it. Here's your big chance to show ALL you know about motor and generator construction.

[BroMikey]

BM talks out of both sides of his mouth, as they say. Hypocritical. He doesn't like it when he gets it, but sure dishes it out to my face when I ask Turion to show me science behind or evidence or proof of his claims.

bi

That's me just a big ole hypocrite.

Hey Dave each of your coils put out 185watts

[MerLynn]

BM talks out of both sides of his mouth, as they say. Hypocritical. He doesn't like it when he gets it, but sure dishes it out to my face when I ask Turion to show me science behind or evidence or proof of his claims.

bi

I have to agree with you there.

He asks for experiments and I give him some then he ignores them and asks for Science when I already gave the links.... Then he demands more videos... Nothing will change his BELIEF about HHO and electrons.

Clearly BM doesnt UNDERSTAND plain english or american or even aussie.

Its pointless to engage morons because as they say.... stupid is as stupid does.

Not saying he's a moron mind you..... he does that best himself !!!!

[Turion]

Coils

BroMikey,

I know what they USED to put out, with 6 of the 2” by 1/4” magnets. But now I have 12 of the 1” by 3/4” magnets and they output even MORE. But the 163 watts times 12 coils I quoted is the MINIMUM to reach the 2,000 watt generator output I “claim”. So I am willing to go with that, just for fun. I tried to give numbers I felt like people could reach even without a “perfect” replication.

[bistander]

Answers

bi,
I will freely admit that I have made mistakes in calculations and measurements over the years. I have used terms incorrectly. And I have been wrong about lots of things. Lots of LITTLE things. Which is what YOU jump on to attempt to discredit the work I've done.

But let me put it to you this way...

Is it possible to turn a rotor with magnets on it using a 24 volt motor and have it only draw 12 amps to turn that rotor? I would bet you there are many people here on the forum that would verify that it's possible. Do YOU believe that it is possible or not? Just answer the question. Because if it IS possible, that would be less than 300 watts of input.

And is it possible to build a coil that outputs between 120-130 volts AC at 1.5 amps or more? Is it possible or not? Just answer THAT question. That would be around 163 watts. I'd bet there are a few people on the forum who would support that it is definitely possible. But let's hear YOUR opinion there bi.

So if BOTH those things are possible, and if you say they are not we KNOW you are a liar, then why is it impossible to keep adding coils around the rotor until the total output of the coils exceeds 2000 watts? With an input of less than 300 watts?

I estimate it will take about 12 coils. Please provide us with YOUR explanation of why that is not possible. If you have FACTS that prove it is impossible to continue to add coils around the rotor until the goal of 2000 watts is achieved, what are they? If you know the answer, I'd like to hear it. Here's your big chance to show ALL you know about motor and generator construction.

Yes, 300 Watts is sufficient power to rotate some magnets, saying nothing about strength and environment. Big deal.

Yes, sure some coil can output about 163 Watts at 125 Vac. So what?

What you cannot do is arrange magnets and coils such that you get an output of real power in excess of 2000 Watts with an input of less than 300 Watts. Reason:

Hi Turion,

You can disregard the Law, but it still applies. It is called Lorentz Force. A functioning generator necessarily has magnetic flux through the coil and when loaded, has current through the conductors of that coil, therefore developes a force opposing motion.
...
bi

Go ahead. Prove Mr. Lorentz and 120+ years of science wrong.

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

Tesla

I don’t have to prove him wrong. Tesla already proved the “opposing force” can be delayed. That’s all it takes. Read his patent. Build a coil. Pull your head out.

[BroMikey]

BroMikey,

I know what they USED to put out, with 6 of the 2” by 1/4” magnets. But now I have 12 of the 1” by 3/4” magnets and they output even MORE. But the 163 watts times 12 coils I quoted is the MINIMUM to reach the 2,000 watt generator output I “claim”. So I am willing to go with that, just for fun. I tried to give numbers I felt like people could reach even without a “perfect” replication.

Oh that's right, I forgot 150% better using more magnets and more
coils. I like your work, I can power a house with this. The rest of the
air-heads out here want to talk Bullroar, don't tell me show me is my
new slogan.

I hope you get the time to do the testing on the new machine.

[bistander]

Tesla patent

I don’t have to prove him wrong. Tesla already proved the “opposing force” can be delayed. That’s all it takes. Read his patent. Build a coil. Pull your head out.

Hi Turion,

You refer to Patent No. 512,340, dated January 9, 1894, right? Show me where it even mentions force let alone proves anything about an opposing force.

Regards,

bi

[Turion]

You can disregard the Law, but it still applies. It is called Lorentz Force. A functioning generator necessarily has magnetic flux through the coil and when loaded, has current through the conductors of that coil, therefore developes a force opposing motion.

So, according to YOU, a "FORCE opposing motion."
What kind of force is this that is opposing motion? Does something grab the rotor and hold on? Explain to me the force that opposes motion, if you can. Is it gravity? Nah. Don't think so. It must be something else. Is it an electrical field? Nah. Must be something else. A simple electrical field created by the coil is not going to have much, if any, effect on the rotor now is it? Besides, that is a FIELD, not a FORCE.

If you can explain what kind of force it is that slows down the rotor, I can explain how Tesla shows that it can be delayed. In other words, how exactly does Lorentz force work? Is it a big wind blowing against the rotor in the opposite direction? Don't think so.

Maybe something starts rubbing and THAT slows it down. Is that what you are saying? Friction? Again, not one of the forces, although it IS the result of the electromagnetic attraction between charged particles in two touching surfaces, according to modern theory anyway.

Since there are only FOUR forces discussed in physics, which of those four is at work here. Most of the examples I just gave don't even EXIST in physics, or are classified in some way as one of the four. So which is it bi. Or do you even know? Because if you do, then you know EXACTLY how what Tesla said applies. Or maybe you just really and truly do NOT understand what he says in that patent. BY the way bi, there is no such THING as "Lorentz Force." You should know that. There are ONLY the four forces as defined by physics and Lorentz Force ain't one of them. No prize for you. Unless you have some new scientific breakthrough none of us know about. It is CALLED Lorentz force because he figured out how that particular force was acting in certain situations. We could just as easily call it the "Tesla Force, since he figured a way to delay it. Are we having fun yet?

[MerLynn]

I have probably said this 100 times and still you guys don’t get it.
There are two factors that make running a standard generator ridiculously impractical with an electric motor.

1. For each coil you add around the rotor you are adding a specific mass of iron in the coil core that the rotating magnets are attracted to. At low speed you get cogging, but at high speed the cogging goes away. However, there is still magnetic drag. This is the inherent attraction of the moving magnets to stationary iron. The magnets want to stop their rotation and align with the iron core. This is a fact and you can’t change it. This requires ADDITIONAL amps through the motor to maintain operational speed as you add more and more coils. You can, however, create an opposing force that neutralizes this attraction. That is what my opposition magnets do. Add as many coils as you want. There is NO drag and NO increased amp draw by the motor.

2. The second issue you have is that every coil with an iron core is subject to Lenz. This means that when the coil is under load, as each rotor magnet approaches the coil it creates electrical current in the coil that creates a magnetic field in the core that repels the approaching magnet on the rotor. This means you must provide the drive motor with more amps to maintain the same operational rpm in order to overcome this resistance. With a properly wound coil you increase capacitance so that the forming of the electromagnet is DELAYED until the approaching magnet has reached top dead center. Now the magnet is repelled in the direction of rotation assisting in that rotation or “speeding up under load.” If you adjust the variables (length of wire, number of strands in parallel or volts and amps input to motor) you can establish a condition where the input to the motor is at its lowest while the output of the generator coil is at its highest and get a neutral condition where the drive motor is neither slowed down NOR accelerated. This is optimal. My generator running at full speed and suddenly having all the coils connected to a load would bog down and draw over 30 amps, (on my 30 amp in line shunted meter.). With properly wound coils it draws 12 amps in the same condition.

These two inovations allow you to run a VERY LARGE generator with a very small electric motor. If you see no advantage in that then, by all means, continue on your way and pay NO attention to anything I have said.

Turion.

With MUCH respect for your experimentations....

BUT

Over unity with Lenz law is achievable... I have seen it many times. But its not my IP to give away.

Its NOT over Unity one is looking for... that's an outdated term that's based upon electron science that's FAKE.

What one is looking for, and you seem like a guy that could benefit from such knowledge, is RADIANT Energy.

Radiant or cold fusion, or cold electricity, of zero point energy has NO Lenz Laws about it. Its not meterable, nor measurable and has no equations about it... its just unlimited. Its the 2 way flow of current that diodes and capacitors inhibit. I know it because I have seen it.

The thing is, there are Universal Laws at play with this Tesla Radiance, Keely's Neutral Center energy and Walter Russells Still Magnetic Light and BM just doent want to understand (read comprehend) these Universal Laws at all. If he did, he wouldnt rubbish the water into oil video, demanding a better one and claiming JoeCells make HHO bubbles. His HHO mindset is contrary to Universal Laws which he does not want to comprehend or he would ask about Neutral Centers or why Inert gases are at the Center of each of the 9 Octaves of the Magnetic Frequency Patterns, people refer to as elements.
Or he cant speel google.

[bistander]

Lorentz force

So, according to YOU, a "FORCE opposing motion."
What kind of force is this that is opposing motion? Does something grab the rotor and hold on? Explain to me the force that opposes motion, if you can. Is it gravity? Nah. Don't think so. It must be something else. Is it an electrical field? Nah. Must be something else. A simple electrical field created by the coil is not going to have much, if any, effect on the rotor now is it? Besides, that is a FIELD, not a FORCE.

If you can explain what kind of force it is that slows down the rotor, I can explain how Tesla shows that it can be delayed. In other words, how exactly does Lorentz force work? Is it a big wind blowing against the rotor in the opposite direction? Don't think so.

Maybe something starts rubbing and THAT slows it down. Is that what you are saying? Friction? Again, not one of the forces, although it IS the result of the electromagnetic attraction between charged particles in two touching surfaces, according to modern theory anyway.

Since there are only FOUR forces discussed in physics, which of those four is at work here. Most of the examples I just gave don't even EXIST in physics, or are classified in some way as one of the four. So which is it bi. Or do you even know? Because if you do, then you know EXACTLY how what Tesla said applies. Or maybe you just really and truly do NOT understand what he says in that patent. BY the way bi, there is no such THING as "Lorentz Force." You should know that. There are ONLY the four forces as defined by physics and Lorentz Force ain't one of them. No prize for you. Unless you have some new scientific breakthrough none of us know about. It is CALLED Lorentz force because he figured out how that particular force was acting in certain situations. We could just as easily call it the "Tesla Force, since he figured a way to delay it. Are we having fun yet?

Lorentz force, as it is commonly called, is that force between an electric charge and a magnetic field as described by Lorentz's force law. It (the force) acts at a distance meaning there need not be physical contact between the charge and the source of the field. In a rotating machine, the force is developed between the rotor and stator and is best described as a torque. When in a generator, this torque opposes rotation. Look it up, there are volumes on Lorentz.

In the patent, Tesla describes how his method of coil winding increases capacitive reactance in the coil which counteracts the inductive reactance. The inductive reactance causes the changing current to lag the voltage in AC circuits. His increased capacitive reactance tends to lead or in most cases reduce the current lag bringing it closer to "in phase" with the voltage.

I fail to see why you think increasing the capacitive reactance of a generator coil will delay anything. Increasing the coil capacity actually advances the current in the load circuit compared to the standard coil. This aids in power factor correction and, as I read it, was the motivation behind Tesla's invention.

You, of course, can use it for whatever reason you wish. But it does not affect the real power output or the required shaft torque to drive the generator at speed and load.

Regards,

bi

[BroMikey]

Heard it many times over. Show me something that works not another
trick and years of blubbering in the wind. Talk is nice, what about
action. All these things stated are old as the hills. Talk talk talk hum....

[Turion]

Same old crap

bi,
Once again you avoided answering a simple question. There are only 4 Forced in physics. Which one is ”Lenz Force”? Do you know the answer or not? Always your goal is to obfuscate and evade.