The bistander thread

[Turion]

Nope

No moving on until you post the answer here in response to the question. Don’t point to it. Don’t link to it. Just post the answer here.

So this is the 17th refusal to answer? Which force, acknowledged and accepted by physics is your Lorentz Force? One word is still all you have to post.

[BroMikey]

This too is what I have observed in the HIGH-MIND, It's not that the
person actual is gifted with a higher mind than say the next person, it's
just that they think they have something that they don't.

Whenever the high-mind kicks in it will not submit. It will not be open
to any demand and it will never make peace. All you see at this point
is "stubbornness and rebellion" which according to the ancient text is
just the same as "Witchcraft"

This is the programming we see in the so called HIGHER learning outlets
controlled by socialistic govt run schools. Dave is trying to instruct bi and
bi has an open thread for discussion but won't submit to any line of
reasoning outside his sphere.

Even the smallest of children playing together submit to one another.

This is not how the HIGH MIND works, it is unreasonable.

yet we see bi calling out to Turion daily, why? HI TURION bi calls
out. HI TURION, day after day. For what purpose? Why will he call out
to Dave when he has no intention of listening to anything reasonable
Dave has to offer. Simple, bi is trying to justify his viewpoint and
nothing else matters.

[Quantum_well]

Reality.

Turion, the Pied Piper, and Bromikey promoting the Emperors new clothes.
A Watt balance uses Lorentz force to measure mass to an accuracy of eleven parts in a billion.
The point is, if we disregard the physical constants absolutely absolutely nothing would work. From your body to your Sat Nav everything depends on constants.

[Turion]

A Watt balance uses Lorentz force to measure mass to an accuracy of eleven parts in a billion.

Please explain how this statement has anything to do with what we have been talking about or how it applies to ANYTHING I have put forth about my generator or the 3 Battery system. I too can throw out meaningless lines quoted from Wikipedia. It doesn’t make me right or intelligent.

Nothing I have shown violates ANY of the physics constants. Do you even know what they are? Or just another pseudoscientist? Because this one post by you reveals everything anybody needs to know about you or your value in discussions on this forum.


Still waiting bi.
Sending your alter ego to spread garbage isn’t going to stop me. Which force, acknowledged and accepted by physics is your Lorentz Force? One word is still all you have to post. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Yoo Hoo. Can you hear me bi?

[bistander]

Turion's game, continued

No moving on until you post the answer here in response to the question. Don’t point to it. Don’t link to it. Just post the answer here.

So this is the 17th refusal to answer? Which force, acknowledged and accepted by physics is your Lorentz Force? One word is still all you have to post.

What is wrong with the one word answer I posted long ago in #228?

Nothing is wrong with it.

OK. Then the answer is good. You have it.

One word is still all you have to post.

Hi Turion,

I don't have to post anything. But I did answer your question and you acknowledged that. I don't know what your game is and don't want to play. I doubt that you would have anything relevant or interesting to post anyway, just the same old BS.

17? How many questions have I asked you that go unanswered? How many times have I requested proof of your 2000/300 claim which you refuse?

Regards,

bi

[Quantum_well]

Hi.

Turion and BroMikey, I just love the way you pour scorn on the books.
Just read up Faraday, Joseph Henry and most of all Maxwell.
Tesla was a tinkerer, I don't think he understood Einstein's work at all. He didn't invent coupled inductors nor was he first with a "rotating magnetic field".
Surely getting self oxidation out of a battery has got to be a violation of something.
Likewise getting 2k plus Watts from 300 watts input has got to be a violation of something else!

[Turion]

Clarification

Quantum,
I don’t disagree with anything in any of the textbooks. All the laws and rules that have been established are absolutely correct when applied to closed systems. Which is what the were FORMULATED for. But those same laws do NOT necessarily apply to open systems or systems where ground is not -0- voltage because the were not FORMULATED for those systems. That does not mean that NONE of them apply. It simply means that in some instances they CANNOT apply.

It is simple physics. Believe it or don’t. I don’t really care. I notice you made no attempt to explain or defend how the statement you made in your last post applies. Because it DOESN’T. It was just another attempt by someone who read a book once to impress us with his knowledge. It might surprise you to know I have read a few books too.

As to a machine where 2000 watts is the output and only 300 watts is the input. “”Got to be a violation” is not very scientific now is it?

bi agreed the rotor with magnets could be turned freely with 300 watts or less. He agreed that the coils could be built to output around 340 volts (I don’t actually remember the number he agreed to, so it might have been less than that) so it really boils down to whether enough coils could be put around a rotor. He says you can’t do that because of something called Lorentz Force which he claims is some kind of interaction between the rotor and the stator. Since this type of interaction falls under the laws of PHYSICS, I asked him which of the four forces recognized and accepted by physics (It’s in the textbooks. Ever heard of those?) this Lorentz Force actually is. Because in Physics (textbooks AGAIN) there are only FOUR forces and his Lorentz Force ain’t one of them. He points to this or that and links to pages that have the word on them, but for some reason he refuses to post that word here. Because when he does...if he EVER does...we can continue our conversation and I can show that he has no idea what he is talking about. He read a book once, so he thinks he knows everything. The real learning comes from building things on the bench. Trying 10,000 things that do not work before you find one that does. If you believe that something cannot be done because the book says it cannot, simply do it in a way that the book does not understand HOW to do.

So, once again bi... Which force, acknowledged and accepted by physics is your Lorentz Force? One word is still all you have to post. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Yoo Hoo. Can you hear me bi?

[Turion]

Physics

Just for fun, here is a PHYSICS interpretation of what happens with a generator. Shall we accept the PHYSICS TEXTBOOK VERSION or shall we listen to bystander. You notice NO MENTION is made or Lorentz Force. Wonder WHY????

https://www.physicscentral.com/exper...20080506025126
ASK A PHYSICIST ANSWERS
Why does an electric generator slow down when you begin to use the power it is generating?
An ordinary electric generator produces electric power by spinning a strong magnet inside a set of wire coils. As the magnet spins, its magnetic field sweeps across the coils and gives rise to electric fields in those coils. This effect, in which changing or moving magnetic fields produce electric fields, is a fundamental piece of electromagnetic theory, and allows the spinning magnet to push on electric charges that exist within the wire coils.


But if the generator's power isn't being used, its coils carry no electric current. The fields from the spinning magnet are pushing charges around, but those charges have nowhere to go. It isn't until you begin using the generated power that current can flow through the coils. When that happens, something new appears: magnetic fields around the coils themselves. As current flows through the coils, the coils become electromagnets.
In accordance with a property known as Lenz's law, each coil's magnetism pushes against the spinning magnet's motion, first to slow the magnet's approach and then to delay its departure. By fighting the spinning magnet's rotation, the coils are making it do work on them and extracting energy from its spinning motion. To keep the magnet spinning, something must continuously restore this rotational energy and that something is usually an engine.

There you have it. Now pay attention children. According to Tesla, increasing the capacitance of the coil inhibits the self induction, which inhibits the generation of electricity in the coil, which delays the point at which it turns into an electromagnet, which means the approaching magnet is NOT repelled as it approaches and the coil turns into a repelling electromagnet when the rotor magnet has reached top dead center, pushing it away in the direction of rotation.

It’s ALL Physics and it’s all exactly according to the ”LAWS”

And it means I can run a motor on 300 watts and rotate magnets past as MANY COILS as I can fit around it and produce 2000 watts or MORE.

[NROC]

Signing Off

Just for fun, here is a PHYSICS interpretation of what happens with a generator. Shall we accept the PHYSICS TEXTBOOK VERSION or shall we listen to bystander. You notice NO MENTION is made or Lorentz Force. Wonder WHY????

https://www.physicscentral.com/exper...20080506025126
ASK A PHYSICIST ANSWERS
Why does an electric generator slow down when you begin to use the power it is generating?
An ordinary electric generator produces electric power by spinning a strong magnet inside a set of wire coils. As the magnet spins, its magnetic field sweeps across the coils and gives rise to electric fields in those coils. This effect, in which changing or moving magnetic fields produce electric fields, is a fundamental piece of electromagnetic theory, and allows the spinning magnet to push on electric charges that exist within the wire coils.


But if the generator's power isn't being used, its coils carry no electric current. The fields from the spinning magnet are pushing charges around, but those charges have nowhere to go. It isn't until you begin using the generated power that current can flow through the coils. When that happens, something new appears: magnetic fields around the coils themselves. As current flows through the coils, the coils become electromagnets.
In accordance with a property known as Lenz's law, each coil's magnetism pushes against the spinning magnet's motion, first to slow the magnet's approach and then to delay its departure. By fighting the spinning magnet's rotation, the coils are making it do work on them and extracting energy from its spinning motion. To keep the magnet spinning, something must continuously restore this rotational energy and that something is usually an engine.

There you have it. Now pay attention children. According to Tesla, increasing the capacitance of the coil inhibits the self induction, which inhibits the generation of electricity in the coil, which delays the point at which it turns into an electromagnet, which means the approaching magnet is NOT repelled as it approaches and the coil turns into a repelling electromagnet when the rotor magnet has reached top dead center, pushing it away in the direction of rotation.

It’s ALL Physics and it’s all exactly according to the ”LAWS”

And it means I can run a motor on 300 watts and rotate magnets past as MANY COILS as I can fit around it and produce 2000 watts or MORE.

This is spot on. The fact is that the Lenz force does not appear instantaneously, it takes time for the currents to form in the materials, and therefore if your talented enough you can build a motor that has only frictional losses. NO LOSS DUE TO LENZ. Whether you do it by setting your impedance of the coil to avoid it like dave has, or whether you make your rotating element non circular like jim murray did in his dynaflux machine (which was patented by the way and authorised by the patent office as doing what it said it would do) is up to you. THESE DEVICES EXIST. Although they have received little attention by the main engineering body, which is an absolute afront to science in my opinion, they work.

With these motors it doesnt cost you anywhere near as much to turn you motor or generator as a conventional motor or generator. If you take it a step further like dave has then you can keep adding more coils to get more power out, you couple that with a 3bgs and your laughing. There really is no refuting these lenz free motors because they have to be demonstrated to a patent officer before approval. In the dynaflux machine even the non linear dynamics are shown in the patent just for engineers to see how it works because otherwise ot wouldnt have been accepted.

This is why i find bistanders opinion so dumb. 1) because he just quotes wikipedia and 2) because published info is already available.

I guess quantum well is the new bistander lol.

Anyway i wont waste anymore time driving traffic to biproducts thread. Dave only responds to you because he feels like it. We are doing the work behind the scenes to take these things much further than has been done already. I hope in the future people will thank Matt and Dave for how much they gave freely to people.

[BroMikey]

Turion and BroMikey, I just love the way you pour scorn on the books.
Just read up Faraday, Joseph Henry and most of all Maxwell.
Tesla was a tinkerer, I don't think he understood Einstein's work at all.

Books are for a controlled environment, here are the answers, say that
and you pass. This book reading bit is for beginners who can't find their
heads with both hands. Books carved in braille over laid with gold only
impress me if they make sense.

A. Einstein was a puppet/front man for the Masonic brotherhood whether
he liked it or not saying what he was told to say. The govt controlled
curriculum for the past 50 plus yrs was developed by secret societies
who are devote Satanists and don't hide it.

This is why everything you know is a lie.

[bistander]

Good--- back on topic

Just for fun, here is a PHYSICS interpretation of what happens with a generator. Shall we accept the PHYSICS TEXTBOOK VERSION or shall we listen to bystander. You notice NO MENTION is made or Lorentz Force. Wonder WHY????

Why? My guess is the author's answer was fashioned towards students of high school level and he attempted to keep it simple.

As long as we're linking web articles, look at this one.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...vU9YSgvgElZvS5

From there:

Motor vs. Generator
Lorentz-force electro-mechanical transduction is bilateral. An electric motor uses it to convert electrical power into rotational power. An electrical generator uses it to convert rotational power into electrical power.

https://www.physicscentral.com/exper...20080506025126
ASK A PHYSICIST ANSWERS
Why does an electric generator slow down when you begin to use the power it is generating?
An ordinary electric generator produces electric power by spinning a strong magnet inside a set of wire coils. As the magnet spins, its magnetic field sweeps across the coils and gives rise to electric fields in those coils. This effect, in which changing or moving magnetic fields produce electric fields, is a fundamental piece of electromagnetic theory, and allows the spinning magnet to push on electric charges that exist within the wire coils.


But if the generator's power isn't being used, its coils carry no electric current. The fields from the spinning magnet are pushing charges around, but those charges have nowhere to go. It isn't until you begin using the generated power that current can flow through the coils. When that happens, something new appears: magnetic fields around the coils themselves. As current flows through the coils, the coils become electromagnets.
In accordance with a property known as Lenz's law, each coil's magnetism pushes against the spinning magnet's motion, first to slow the magnet's approach and then to delay its departure. By fighting the spinning magnet's rotation, the coils are making it do work on them and extracting energy from its spinning motion. To keep the magnet spinning, something must continuously restore this rotational energy and that something is usually an engine.

My comment inserted below in blue.

There you have it. Now pay attention children. According to Tesla, increasing the capacitance of the coil inhibits the self induction,
{Tesla says neutralize opposed to "inhibits", but that's minor. However what follows is written by Turion and nowhere reads nor is inferred or implied by Tesla's patent.}

which inhibits the generation of electricity in the coil, which delays the point at which it turns into an electromagnet, which means the approaching magnet is NOT repelled as it approaches and the coil turns into a repelling electromagnet when the rotor magnet has reached top dead center, pushing it away in the direction of rotation.

There are two separate sources of voltage in a generator coil when the armature is moving in the field. One is due to the self induction which would be present for a changing current even without armature motion. Second is the generated voltage due to the motion. The added capacitance in the coil can neutralize the self inductance but not the generated voltage due to motion. Coil current will develop due to this generated voltage when a load is connected. This current (moving charge) is responsible for Lorentz force which opposes the motion.

It’s ALL Physics and it’s all exactly according to the ”LAWS”

And it means I can run a motor on 300 watts and rotate magnets past as MANY COILS as I can fit around it and produce 2000 watts or MORE.

Sorry. You don't get to choose which laws apply and which don't.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Yes, I hear (read, actually) you

Quantum,
I don’t disagree with anything in any of the textbooks. All the laws and rules that have been established are absolutely correct when applied to closed systems. Which is what the were FORMULATED for. But those same laws do NOT necessarily apply to open systems or systems where ground is not -0- voltage because the were not FORMULATED for those systems. That does not mean that NONE of them apply. It simply means that in some instances they CANNOT apply.

It is simple physics. Believe it or don’t. I don’t really care. I notice you made no attempt to explain or defend how the statement you made in your last post applies. Because it DOESN’T. It was just another attempt by someone who read a book once to impress us with his knowledge. It might surprise you to know I have read a few books too.

As to a machine where 2000 watts is the output and only 300 watts is the input. “”Got to be a violation” is not very scientific now is it?

bi agreed the rotor with magnets could be turned freely with 300 watts or less. He agreed that the coils could be built to output around 340 volts (I don’t actually remember the number he agreed to, so it might have been less than that) so it really boils down to whether enough coils could be put around a rotor. He says you can’t do that because of something called Lorentz Force which he claims is some kind of interaction between the rotor and the stator. Since this type of interaction falls under the laws of PHYSICS, I asked him which of the four forces recognized and accepted by physics (It’s in the textbooks. Ever heard of those?) this Lorentz Force actually is. Because in Physics (textbooks AGAIN) there are only FOUR forces and his Lorentz Force ain’t one of them. He points to this or that and links to pages that have the word on them, but for some reason he refuses to post that word here. Because when he does...if he EVER does...we can continue our conversation and I can show that he has no idea what he is talking about. He read a book once, so he thinks he knows everything. The real learning comes from building things on the bench. Trying 10,000 things that do not work before you find one that does. If you believe that something cannot be done because the book says it cannot, simply do it in a way that the book does not understand HOW to do.

So, once again bi... Which force, acknowledged and accepted by physics is your Lorentz Force? One word is still all you have to post. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Yoo Hoo. Can you hear me bi?

Why is it so important to you that I post a certain word, again?

bi

[Turion]

Step TWO

You can build the machine I described above with 12 coils on it and ATTEMPT to get 2000 watts out of it. You WILL, but only for a minute or two until your motor BURNS up. I should know. I built it and I burnt up SEVERAL motors. My coils were neutral, meaning they caused the motor to neither speed up nor slow down. With only a couple coils on the machine it output as expected and input does not seem affected. But with 12 coils on the machine there is a drag that causes thr motor to draw high amps. I TRIED to explain this to bistander, that there was magnetic drag because of the attraction of the magnets to the iron cores of the coils. And that I had used magnets to offset or neutralize this attraction. His response was to babble on about how there is no clogging at speed so my magnetic neutralization was an unnecessary waste. What he HASN’T gotten through his head is that clogging has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. Magnetic drag is REAL, and you have to compensate for it or pay the price in high amp draw and burnt up motors.

And the FINAL step is to learn to run the motor on the 3 battery system where you can recover at LEAST 70% of the input energy and recycle it. Or don’t I have shared as much as we are willing to share. We are now working behind the scenes with folks like NROC who, because of his Physics background, can look at some things most Electrical Engineers simply dismiss and say “maybe” there is something to that. I know has built some things that work based on what we have told him. We shared it all here. People just don’t listen. They aren’t willing to spend the time to build something and learn for themselves. We spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars on this stuff. Nobody handed us anything. We owe nobody anything. Build it or don’t. Learn, or keep feeling your way in the dark. It’s all up to you. We left a path to follow. What you do is your choice.

[Turion]

Tesla’s patent

bi,
You are right that Tesla only actually stated that increased capacitance neutralizes self induction. The rest of what happens is a result of limiting self induction. But once again you resort to nit picking.

It should also be made cleartgatTeslawas talking about his concept as it applied to MOTORS. I doubt he mentioned generators.

[bistander]

Reading

bi,
You are right that Tesla only actually stated that increased capacitance neutralizes self induction. The rest of what happens is a result of limiting self induction. But once again you resort to nit picking.

It should also be made cleartgatTeslawas talking about his concept as it applied to MOTORS. I doubt he mentioned generators.

Hi Turion,

In patent #512,340, Tesla never mentioned motor, or generator. You will no doubt say I am nit-picking, but this really demonstrates how you comprehend what you read or observe. Big differences between what you report and fact.

Regards,

bi