The bistander thread

[Turion]

Bistepper

He’s still yapping, but now avoiding the money issue. Maybe he doesn’t think we will notice. LOL. What do they call it when you avoid the issue? Sidestepping, or maybe biSTEPPING?

[bistander]

Issues

He’s still yapping, but now avoiding the money issue. Maybe he doesn’t think we will notice. LOL. What do they call it when you avoid the issue? Sidestepping, or maybe biSTEPPING?

I have no issues, but I do have truth and fact on my side.

bi

[Turion]

The Message

Show me the money.

[bistander]

Any data?

The other day I said my machinist ran a 120 volt 1.8 amp AC motor from the wall at 1600 RPM and then ran it on two coils from the generator at 1700 RPM. Today he disconnected the MY1020 DC razor scooter motor and tried running that AC motor connected to the wall to turn the generator. Of course it didn’t have enough get up and go. Since it’s a 1.8 amp motor, I didn’t expect that it would. But he’s trying all kinds of stuff. He may make something happen to get a self runner before I get down there or maybe not. Either way I can prove what I say about the generator is true. The 6th is rapidly approaching. I can hardly wait.

Hi Turion,

You've told us the DC motor runs at 24V and 6 amps. That's 144 watts. You say the AC motor runs 120V and 1.8 amps. That's 216 VA. Depending on the PF, the AC motor looks to be in the same power range. Why didn't you expect to work. Did your machinist use a killawatt meter or other means to measure the PF or watts? What were the actual measured V and I during the running of the DC motor?

bi

[BroMikey]

This proves you know little about the experiments or hands on.
See (Motor Generator)

[Turion]

Incorrect

I have been saying for YEARS that the DC motor runs on 24 volts at 12 amps, not 6 Amps. That’s 288 watts. I have ALWAYS said just less than 300 watts in and 1800-2000 watts out. ALWAYS. You can look it up. I’ve said it enough times. I have ALSO said it pulls MORE amps on startup.

[bistander]

Data

I have been saying for YEARS that the DC motor runs on 24 volts at 12 amps, not 6 Amps. That’s 288 watts. I have ALWAYS said just less than 300 watts in and 1800-2000 watts out. ALWAYS. You can look it up. I’ve said it enough times. I have ALSO said it pulls MORE amps on startup.

Only the machine is running RIGHT now, lighting five 300 watt light bulbs and running a small AC motor at 1700 RPM on the last two coils when that same motor will only run at 1600 RPM plugged into the wall. That motor is 110 volt 1.8 amp motor, so that gives you some idea of the output of a coil pair. And the gen is only turning at 1140 RPM, when it’s normal running speed is 2800 RPM. The DC motor driving the generator is running on 24 volt at 6 amps, so something is weird about that, but I won’t know what until I get down there. On 24 volts it SHOULD run at 2800 RPM, so I don’t know what my machinist is doing wrong. Weak batteries maybe.

You just told us "6 amps". So, let's look at the data.

bi

[Turion]

Misinformation

I see where you got your info. That was a typo on my part. A big one. Don't know what I was thinking. The DC motor has always used 12 amps to turn the generator. ALWAYS. It MAY be pulling less amps than that now, because Greyland worked really hard to tune it perfectly to eliminate the magnetic drag, but I have never PERSONALLy seen it draw less than 12 amps and he didn't tell me it was pulling less than that. It might be, but I wouldn't bet money on it. My mistake. So 6 amps is misinformation. When I am wrong. I admit it. Unlike SOME people.

[Turion]

Just the Facts man

bi has stated that he has never called me a liar a fraud or a con man.


Screen shots tell a far different story.




Aren't we going to have some fun after Monday?

Identifying Defamation Online
Sometimes people argue that a statement that is expressed as an opinion is not defamation. This is technically true, since defamation applies only to statements of fact. In some situations, however, a comment that may be phrased as a statement of opinion may be reasonably interpreted as a statement of fact. Just saying “I think” before making the defamatory comment does not necessarily shield the commenter from liability. Before you write something negative online, you should make sure that you understand the facts. You should not give the impression of knowing facts that you do not actually know but are merely inferring.

Not every negative comment is equally likely to result in a claim. You should be especially wary of making comments about a person’s private life or about their work.
So boys and girls, do we know what it is called when Defamation is put in writing?

LAW
A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation LIBEL



Did I mention my wife works in the legal profession? LOL

.

[bistander]

Again, truth and fact

bi has stated that he has never called me a liar a fraud or a con man.


Screen shots tell a far different story.




Aren't we going to have some fun after Monday?

Identifying Defamation Online
Sometimes people argue that a statement that is expressed as an opinion is not defamation. This is technically true, since defamation applies only to statements of fact. In some situations, however, a comment that may be phrased as a statement of opinion may be reasonably interpreted as a statement of fact. Just saying “I think” before making the defamatory comment does not necessarily shield the commenter from liability. Before you write something negative online, you should make sure that you understand the facts. You should not give the impression of knowing facts that you do not actually know but are merely inferring.

Not every negative comment is equally likely to result in a claim. You should be especially wary of making comments about a person’s private life or about their work.
So boys and girls, do we know what it is called when Defamation is put in writing?

LAW
A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation LIBEL



Did I mention my wife works in the legal profession? LOL

.

Turion,

published false statement

The statements which I made are true.

Burden of proof is on you. Go ahead, make my day.

bi

[Turion]

Moment of truth

So I just proved you lied when you said you have never called me a liar, a fraud or a con man. But as usual, you avoid the substance of what I am talking about and focus instead on ANY area where you have a chance of being right. Only you are NOT right about any of it. Which means Libel is definitely on the table. Happy new year! Can’t wait for Monday!

[bistander]

Truth

So I just proved you lied when you said you have never called me a liar, a fraud or a con man. But as usual, you avoid the substance of what I am talking about and focus instead on ANY area where you have a chance of being right. Only you are NOT right about any of it. Which means Libel is definitely on the table. Happy new year! Can’t wait for Monday!

Hi Turion,

You'll no doubt call this nitpicking, but I never used the term "liar". I said your statements were false and you were promoting lies. Which is true. And I value truth. But I am human and can error and state something untrue or false and in doing so, lie. On the rare occasion when that happens, I appreciate being shown the truth. So please, do an excellent and thorough job Monday leaving no doubt about your device's capability of producing your claimed performance of 1800 to 2000 watts of real power while using only 300 watts (or less) of input power.

Good luck,

bi

[Turion]

All YOUR "Truth"

So when you stated that I am "lying about things on purpose" (which I posted a screen shot of) according to YOUR twisted definition, that is not calling me a liar. Saying I am lying is not saying I am a liar. That's like saying playing pro basketball doesn't make you a pro basketball player. That's what you do bi, you twist things around any possible way you can to support YOUR version of the truth.

Well here is some "truth" for you. Iron or ferrite or met glass cores can only accept flux at a specific rate. LOOK IT UP. That rate doesn't magically change just because YOU want it to. A certain amount of flux is required IN THE CORE before the wire wrapped around the core begins to generate electricity which (when the coil is under load to complete circuit) is required to turn the iron into an electromagnet repelling the approaching magnet with an opposite magnetic field.

So if the speed of the rotor is FAST enough, or if the capacity of the coil is GREAT enough, or if you have a combination of BOTH you are absolutely able to outrun there "event". The "event" being the moment the coil begins to generate ENOUGH electricity to create that opposing magnetic field. Between the time the core begins to accept flux and the time it has ENOUGH to cause electricity to begin to accumulate in the circuit, if the approaching magnet has ALREADY MOVED to Top Dead Center, what happens? That is what is happening here, as NROC carefully explained to you, and as I have explained countless times. It is NOT rocket science, but it IS physics. You can't change the facts of this no matter how much you would love to try.

As NROC stated, Lenz is an EFFECT, not a "Law" It is a reaction that happens. It is like shooting a bullet out of a gun. When you pull the trigger, that bullet will fire. Now if you change the size of the bullet, the diameter of the barrel, the amount of powder in the cartridge, you can affect the result.

Just like here. We change the capacity of the coil and the speed of the rotor to affect the timing of when the event occurs. It CANNOT be eliminated, because it is an effect that is going to occur, but we CAN manipulate it to our advantage.

You cannot change physics just because it doesn't happen to agree with your perception of reality. Here is what NROC said. His credentials do not matter. What matters is that he and I are speaking the TRUTH about the relationship between a rotor magnet and a coil.

Here is what NROC has ALREADY explained to you:

"It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome.

What I mean by 'lenz engineered out ' is the fact that it takes a finite time for lenz to show up. If you have an oscilloscope with high enough bandwidth (100MHz or more) you can see it. Because it takes a finite time to take effect you can use that to your advantage and get a lenz assist. Your not getting rid of the negative sign in the equation you are simply delaying it. It is absolutely about the phase of the currents as you said but im not sure you understand what significance that actually has in this system. Dave has said this repeatedly for years. He has basically given away all the details and specs for it and he didnt have to.

The Tesla patent doesn't necessarily contribute anything 'magical'.*(edited)

I disagree that the reactance becomes infinite in a resonance condition for any coil with inductance and capacitance. The reactance is still zero in the parallel resonance condition its just that the impedance goes to maximum because the currents are bouncing back and forth between the capacitive and inductive portions of the circuit. Because the currents bounce back and forth between L and C that portion of the circuit looks like an open circuit to the source and only the resistive part of the impedance exists. That is - that the resistive part of the impedance goes to maximum but the reactance still goes to zero.

I dont have any experience building these coils into motors I have never tried it so I wont comment anymore on that. I do however have a lot of experience with Tesla's coils and building resonant transformers and that is why i wanted to correct your statement."

What you ALL need to understand is that the ONLY load on the motor in this system is the cost of turning the weight of the rotor. Cogging, which at high speed is so fast that it just appears as a magnetic "drag" that costs amp draw in the motor to overcome, and Lenz, which can drag a motor down or cause it to draw so many amps it burns up, DO NOT EXIST. If it costs you 300 watts to turn the motor you get the output of EVERY COIL you can put near the rotor. As MANY coils as you want, all putting out whatever they are capable of according to their core material and how many winds they have on them. Keep adding them. As long as you have magnetic neutralization in place, add as MANY as you want.

This is a device that EASILY outputs far more than it takes to run. If you choose not to build it because of what bystander continues to spout, I feel no pity or compassion for you. I can only shake my head and wonder at how lazy we have become as a people and how brainwashed we have become that the simplicity of what I am showing here can be so quickly discarded, when simple COMMON SENSE would reveal the truth. You don't need to know squat about physics or electricity to understand what I am saying.

Say you have a machine that automatically throws apples out the window of your car. You have to throw 10 apples out the window by the time I get to the end of the block. It's easy if I am traveling 1 mile an hour. Try it when I am traveling at 120. It's exactly the SAME principal. Lenz WILL happen. It's just that with this machine you are three blocks away by the time it does.

Dave

[thaelin]

Why don't we just stop the insanity. I will be at the workshop to meet you in person as I have wanted and to see this with my own eyes. I will be glad to go on record if that is done. The constant nit picking shows no purpose on either side of this. What will show is the yes or no answer to the question. I look forward to being that person that is shown the prize.
I have no affiliation to either side and will give none. I am going to be a voice in the wind that will only speak with the knowledge that I have gained in the adventure.

Like Paul Harvey, stand by for NEWS in 36 weeks.

thay

[bistander]

So when you stated that I am "lying about things on purpose" (which I posted a screen shot of) according to YOUR twisted definition, that is not calling me a liar. Saying I am lying is not saying I am a liar. That's like saying playing pro basketball doesn't make you a pro basketball player. That's what you do bi, you twist things around any possible way you can to support YOUR version of the truth.

Well here is some "truth" for you. Iron or ferrite or met glass cores can only accept flux at a specific rate. LOOK IT UP. That rate doesn't magically change just because YOU want it to. A certain amount of flux is required IN THE CORE before the wire wrapped around the core begins to generate electricity which (when the coil is under load to complete circuit) is required to turn the iron into an electromagnet repelling the approaching magnet with an opposite magnetic field.

So if the speed of the rotor is FAST enough, or if the capacity of the coil is GREAT enough, or if you have a combination of BOTH you are absolutely able to outrun there "event". The "event" being the moment the coil begins to generate ENOUGH electricity to create that opposing magnetic field. Between the time the core begins to accept flux and the time it has ENOUGH to cause electricity to begin to accumulate in the circuit, if the approaching magnet has ALREADY MOVED to Top Dead Center, what happens? That is what is happening here, as NROC carefully explained to you, and as I have explained countless times. It is NOT rocket science, but it IS physics. You can't change the facts of this no matter how much you would love to try.

As NROC stated, Lenz is an EFFECT, not a "Law" It is a reaction that happens. It is like shooting a bullet out of a gun. When you pull the trigger, that bullet will fire. Now if you change the size of the bullet, the diameter of the barrel, the amount of powder in the cartridge, you can affect the result.

Just like here. We change the capacity of the coil and the speed of the rotor to affect the timing of when the event occurs. It CANNOT be eliminated, because it is an effect that is going to occur, but we CAN manipulate it to our advantage.

You cannot change physics just because it doesn't happen to agree with your perception of reality. Here is what NROC said. His credentials do not matter. What matters is that he and I are speaking the TRUTH about the relationship between a rotor magnet and a coil.

Here is what NROC has ALREADY explained to you:

"It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome.

What I mean by 'lenz engineered out ' is the fact that it takes a finite time for lenz to show up. If you have an oscilloscope with high enough bandwidth (100MHz or more) you can see it. Because it takes a finite time to take effect you can use that to your advantage and get a lenz assist. Your not getting rid of the negative sign in the equation you are simply delaying it. It is absolutely about the phase of the currents as you said but im not sure you understand what significance that actually has in this system. Dave has said this repeatedly for years. He has basically given away all the details and specs for it and he didnt have to.

The Tesla patent doesn't necessarily contribute anything 'magical'.*(edited)

I disagree that the reactance becomes infinite in a resonance condition for any coil with inductance and capacitance. The reactance is still zero in the parallel resonance condition its just that the impedance goes to maximum because the currents are bouncing back and forth between the capacitive and inductive portions of the circuit. Because the currents bounce back and forth between L and C that portion of the circuit looks like an open circuit to the source and only the resistive part of the impedance exists. That is - that the resistive part of the impedance goes to maximum but the reactance still goes to zero.

I dont have any experience building these coils into motors I have never tried it so I wont comment anymore on that. I do however have a lot of experience with Tesla's coils and building resonant transformers and that is why i wanted to correct your statement."

What you ALL need to understand is that the ONLY load on the motor in this system is the cost of turning the weight of the rotor. Cogging, which at high speed is so fast that it just appears as a magnetic "drag" that costs amp draw in the motor to overcome, and Lenz, which can drag a motor down or cause it to draw so many amps it burns up, DO NOT EXIST. If it costs you 300 watts to turn the motor you get the output of EVERY COIL you can put near the rotor. As MANY coils as you want, all putting out whatever they are capable of according to their core material and how many winds they have on them. Keep adding them. As long as you have magnetic neutralization in place, add as MANY as you want.

This is a device that EASILY outputs far more than it takes to run. If you choose not to build it because of what bystander continues to spout, I feel no pity or compassion for you. I can only shake my head and wonder at how lazy we have become as a people and how brainwashed we have become that the simplicity of what I am showing here can be so quickly discarded, when simple COMMON SENSE would reveal the truth. You don't need to know squat about physics or electricity to understand what I am saying.

Say you have a machine that automatically throws apples out the window of your car. You have to throw 10 apples out the window by the time I get to the end of the block. It's easy if I am traveling 1 mile an hour. Try it when I am traveling at 120. It's exactly the SAME principal. Lenz WILL happen. It's just that with this machine you are three blocks away by the time it does.

Dave

Hi Turion,

Here is what NROC said. His credentials do not matter.

So his credentials don't matter, but you're so hung up on mine?

It is absolutely about the phase of the currents as you said

Looks like he and I agree on this point. How does the phase difference of the current affect the power? Be sure to measure that.

Your not getting rid of the negative sign in the equation you are simply delaying it.

You're kidding? Delay the negative sign. Now that is a trick.

Notice your vs you're? We all goof sometimes.

But enough already. Good luck with the test.

bi