The bistander thread

[bistander]

Again you want to argue semantics rather than the FACTS I presented. You avoid the FACTS at all costs. You are a COWARD who hides in the dark to discredit the work of others. When proven WRONG you avoid the issue and focus on whatever small thing allows you the least little satisfaction. Petty. I will continue to call you out for this tactic because we both know what you are. Magnetic neutralization works and does exactly what I have said it does. Your blabber does not change that FACT. I have stated several times that ALL my coils have cores in them, so when I say "coil" it includes the core. You know that. So when I say a specific reaction takes place when a "coil" is put in place, you know EXACTLY what I am talking about. That you CHOOSE to respond with a discussion of the "coil," excluding the core, is a deliberate deception and we both know it. You may pull the wool over the eyes of SOME of the people here, but not me. COWARD

What? Exactly what or which facts have I avoided? And where/when have I been proven wrong?

What you call magnetic neutralization is the addition of magnets to the rotor and stator with like poles facing each other so as they pass during rotation they repel each other. Correct? I have always agreed this could counteract or neutralize cogging. But that's it. There is no effect on core loss therefore no effect on magnetic drag. You have never presented any facts to show what I say is incorrect.
bi

[bistander]

dragon,
This is not rocket science. It is simple and the patents to do this have existed for over 100 years.

I know you understand that you can turn a rotor with magnets on it with a DC motor, and to do that will require a certain amount of watts over time.
Now under current systems, what would it COST you in Watts to put 12 coils around that rotor and run it, with each coil producing 130-140 volts at 1.5-1.7 amps under load? You would, of course, have to have wound the coil correctly to do this, but are you telling me it cannot be done? Of COURSE it can be done. The problem is that the COST of doing it, or the input required to do it is greater than the output. And if you TRIED it with almost any DC motor out there, it would probably burn up from the drag of the magnets going past the cores of the coils and from attempting to overcome Lenz.

So the power output is NOT in question. It is absolutely possible. It did not come by magic. It came from turning that rotor by those coils AT A SPECIFIC RPM. There are means to do that and PROVE that the output is possible. Wind, rushing water over a dam. If you are able to achieve that RPM DESPITE Lenz and DESPITE the drag of the iron cores, the output WOULD be achieved, would it not? It isn't magic. It is sound scientific principles. All I have done is OUTRUN LENZ, and Produce a magnetic field of force that is equal in repulsion to the attraction of the rotor magnets to the cores, thus "neutralizing" them. No input of power is required to do EITHER of these things, unless you consider the magnetic field to be "power," which some do and some do not. Winding a coil that has NO SELF INDUCTION, and thus produces NO LENZ is Tesla's patent. Yes, it is conditional. You must operate at the right frequency for the coil. But again, not rocket science. Magnetic neutralization requires you understand what to do with the magnets and how.

I do not INCREASE the output of the coils by some magic. I only eliminate the impediments to a system putting out the MAXIMUM output for the input. That's it. No "external power" is needed. No magic. Just simple physics.

Reposted over here for reference.
bi

[Turion]

First you claim cogging goes away at speed, now you claim you always agreed magnetic neutralization can neutralize cogging. You are a joke. I never said magnetic neutralization eliminated cogging. I AGREE it goes away at speed, but the magnetic attraction of the magnet to the core NEVER goes away. You try to explain things your way to change what I have claimed to fit your theory. I have ALWAYS said that when you add coils to a system it increases the amp draw of the motor, which I called “magnetic drag”. Magnetic neutralization (as I call it) eliminates that reaction. Or at least reduces to such a minimum level it is insignificant. I never “claimed” it would do anything else. That’s just your attempt to put words in my mouth. You’re the fraud, not me. Magnetic neutralization allows you to continue to add unloaded coils around a rotor without increasing the amp draw of the prime mover. Period.

[bistander]

First you claim cogging goes away at speed, now you claim you always agreed magnetic neutralization can neutralize cogging. You are a joke. I never said magnetic neutralization eliminated cogging. I AGREE it goes away at speed, but the magnetic attraction of the magnet to the core NEVER goes away. You try to explain things your way to change what I have claimed to fit your theory. I have ALWAYS said that when you add coils to a system it increases the amp draw of the motor, which I called “magnetic drag”. Magnetic neutralization (as I call it) eliminates that reaction. Or at least reduces to such a minimum level it is insignificant. I never “claimed” it would do anything else. That’s just your attempt to put words in my mouth. You’re the fraud, not me. Magnetic neutralization allows you to continue to add unloaded coils around a rotor without increasing the amp draw of the prime mover. Period.

You say "First you claim cogging goes away at speed, now you claim you always agreed magnetic neutralization can neutralize cogging."

I said your magnets on the stator and rotor, which you call magnetic neutralization, can eliminate or neutralize cogging. Cogging would still be insignificant at speed and load even without your magnetic neutralization scheme. There is nothing contradictory in those statements, which are true.

You murder the accepted terminology. I define exactly the way in which I use the terms and provide references. Remember the eddy current brake example and reference where it described magnetic drag?

Your magnetic neutralization scheme is worthless at a constant speed under load where a generator operates. Anti cogging, which is what your stator and rotor magnets do, can be of value in low speed operation, starting and acceleration.

Same things that I've always said, and provided references for you. So it is not my theory, it is accepted scientific fact.

Adding coils, of conventional design and unloaded, does not increase generator shaft load. Adding a core does. The core loss is magnetic drag and independent of the coil. Electric loading of the coil loads the generator shaft due to Lorentz force.

Magnetic attraction of the magnet to the core in the axial direction cannot be eliminated and still have a functioning generator. That attractive force between the magnet and core in the axial direction is opposed by an equal and opposite force provided by the structure and bearings, elsewise the magnet move axially and touch the core.
bi

[Turion]

With no coils (and their cores) in place the motor draws 7 amps. With 12 coils (and their cores) in place the motor draws almost 30 amps. With magnetic neutralization in place the motor only draws 9 amps. These are the facts. You can read from Wikipedia all day long and it won’t change those numbers.

[bistander]

With no coils (and their cores) in place the motor draws 7 amps. With 12 coils (and their cores) in place the motor draws almost 30 amps. With magnetic neutralization in place the motor only draws 9 amps. These are the facts. You can read from Wikipedia all day long and it won’t change those numbers.

Those are not facts. Show the evidence of the " almost 30 amps" reduced to "only 9 amps". Those figures are your memories and observations which can't be trusted and are in no way considered facts. Show proof. Pulling numbers out of the blue doesn't count. If you don't have proper documentation, repeat the test in a controlled environment with proper instruments and documentation. Then present that evidence for review. Only then can data approach "fact" status. A real fact would need to be verified by third party replications and testing.
bi

[Turion]

All those "MEMORIES" are on video. COWARD

[bistander]

All those "MEMORIES" are on video. COWARD

You showed (linked to) two videos which I commented on specifically because they showed some evidence. But I have not seen or seen links to videos showing your other numbers. Care to post those?
bi
for reference:

...
I believe he also showed it running with MORE coils in place, b ut it drew too many amps for the power supply. These videos all run together in my head. Too many over the years.
...

[Turion]

Yes, I can post those videos, but no, I won’t. I show with no coils in place the amp draw is 7 amps and with 4 coils in place the amp draw is 12 amps. That proves I am right and you are wrong about adding coils and their cores causing the amp draw to go up. When you admit you are wrong, I will post more videos.

[bistander]

Yes, I can post those videos, but no, I won’t. I show with no coils in place the amp draw is 7 amps and with 4 coils in place the amp draw is 12 amps. That proves I am right and you are wrong about adding coils and their cores causing the amp draw to go up. When you admit you are wrong, I will post more videos.

This is not inconsistent with anything I have said. You had 7 amps with no cores and it went up to 12 amps when 4 cores were installed. From zero core loss (with no cores) to core loss when 4 cores were installed, as indicated by increased current in the prime mover (motor). I've always said there was core loss (magnetic drag) when turning the rotor magnets at constant speed with core(s) in place. Where exactly do you think I am wrong? Can you quote an incorrect statement from me followed by proof that it is incorrect? No, you can not.
bi

[BroMikey]

This is not inconsistent with anything I have said.
No, you can not.
bi

What? Are you saying what? Am I or are we all interested in what you say? You say nothing new. You have no examples.
No, you can not? What?

If you plan to have an intelligent conversation, plz start today.

Originally posted by Turion View Post
my friend who built Black Beauty for me

. He tried those ferrite cores and, as I reported, they were a dismal failure.

He tried a steel core, and after 15 minutes he got a blister on his finger

He tried a new core material yesterday and immediately called me.

He was able to run for 30 minutes and the core was still stone cold.

he was outputting 200 volts from a SINGLE COIL, not a coil PAIR.

a very UNEXPECTED core material, and CHEAP.

Way cheaper than the ferrite we bought or the Permalloy

I ordered to test that hasn't arrived yet.
That really makes me happy enough to cry. I love good endings You guys are my hero's since this is a very important work, dear to my heart. Thanks for sharing, you have lifted me on high. BTW I thought that a core which does not heat up should collect THAT energy in the form of potential. 200v is a better voltage higher than 140v and all of that heat. Makes good sense. The wire will still handle the same amps.

This is exciting.

Not ferrite?
not iron?
not nickel iron?
I wonder what it could be?

[Turion]

bi. Yes, I can. I just choose not to. COWARD

[bistander]

bi. Yes, I can. I just choose not to. COWARD

In other words, all you have are false claims and childish name-calling.
bi

[bistander]

This may or maynot be interesting to some... This is a motor generator I built some years ago using scraps of old projects... It is an air core motor using ceramic magnets out of an old automotive wiper motor, a hoover comutator connected to a delco 10si slip ring as the control. The motor has a DC input which is converted to AC through the commutator and the output is also AC. The black meter on the left is the DC input while the red and green meters show the volts and amps produced by it's actions... I've run a few different loads with it testing it out including a small samsung TV which worked quite well as long as there was a resistive load in parallel to suppress the HV spikes. The spikes although suppressed on the output caused problems with the ability to pick up broadcast signals.

Ultra capacitor powered? Interesting experiment. What? No o.u. / cop claims? Thanks for sharing.
bi

[Turion]

No, What I have is a machine that works. All you have is your mouth, and that dark little corner you hide in because you are too scared to come out and face me like a man. COWARD
There are two others besides me who now have working prototypes and are testing coils. This isn’t the only forum I contribute to and there ARE still builders out there.