The bistander thread

[bistander]

You cannot see the effects with one coil. It takes a real rotor with multiple coils, and then you realize that every coil added causes an EXPONENTIAL increase in amp draw OR an exponential DECREASE in motor RPM. One or the other. Choose your poison. 1. INCREASED AMP DRAW AFFECTS THE TOTAL INPUT TO THE SYSTEM.
2. DECREASED RPM AFFECTS THE TOTAL OUTPUT OF THE GENERATOR COILS

But bi has declared that I don't know what I am talking about and magnetic neutralization has NO effect on the performance of the system. He is just WRONG. And always will be. He says he did the experiment. Where is the video to prove it? I have SHOWN my videos because he never takes my word for anything. Where is his? Let's see the 7th grade science experiment you did bi. We can't wait! I did a series of THREE videos with the old clunker machine. One showing it running with NO coils (and their cores) in it. One with about 7 coils (and their cores) and no magnetic adjustment, drawing MASSIVE AMPS. And one where it was all adjusted with all 12 coils (and their cores) in it drawing 12 amps, and we eventually got it down to 7 amps.

I ran across major problems as I was putting the generator together today that I can overcome, but as usual, it takes time.

1. I need twelve 1/4 20 stainless (non-magnetic if possible) machine screws 6" long to use to adjust the opposition magnets on the stator. I assumed I could get them at Lowes. They have nothing over 4" and neither does anyone else in our small town. So they are on order from Amazon and won't be here until Tuesday. This was a change in the way the magnets are adjusted from Black Beauty that won't allow the adjustment magnets to come in contact with the rotor NO MATTER WHAT, which makes me a happy camper. But I didn't realize that getting the required length machine screws would be such a problem.

2. I wasn't really thinking about my test board until I mounted it back on the cart I build the motor on today. I needed a BREAK from winding coils. I noticed that my gauges only go up to 150 volts AC, because my previous coils (with cores) only put out 120-130 volts and that's all I needed. But these new coils (with cores) put out 270 volts, so the meters won't give accurate information. That means I need all new meters. They are on the way.

3. I was using one 300 watt bulb per coil (with cores) pair as my test load, and they were getting a bit over rated input, but they did fine. Now the new coils (with cores) will be outputting 400+ watts, so I need to find some 400 watt bulbs, or put a couple 200 watt bulbs in series. As you can see from the picture, my board is not set up for that. So I will be dealing with that tonight and tomorrow, either ordering some larger bulbs if I can find them on Amazon, or ordering the holders to wire two 200 watt bulbs in series. One way or another.

This machine will be TESTED when I have it back together. Not before. I never said that Monday was a "do or die testing date." I was hoping to have everything back together then, but I will have it all together when it is all together, and then it will be tested. Or maybe NOT. I am trying to figure out how to use two coil outputs to make it self run. If I can do that, no reason to have it tested is there? Oh, except bi will never believe it. But I don't really CARE about that anyway. I know what I know, and that's good enough for me. And if I can do a self runner demo for the folks I am working with, that will be good enough. And it will save me $700.00.

Oh, and by the way. I NEVER said adding a coil (or a core) to the generator turning at speed causes cogging now did I? Show me where I said that. You can't. Just another example of you attempting to put words in my mouth.

Hello Turion,

I did ask that you not argue the point, but you can't resist. I didn't say you said "adding a coil (or a core) to the generator turning at speed causes cogging", now did I, exactly? But that has been your contention from the start, back with your Mr. Potato Head comment and your disbelief of Newton's Laws. You call it magnetic attraction, hence your claimed "need" for "magnetic neutralization". But what you describe "is" cogging, by technical definition. So I call it by the correct terminology recognizing it for what it is. Similar to your continued confusion of "coil" and "core", you're confusing core loss with cogging.

So, end of argument please. Yes, a missed test date claim last Monday. And even more delays and excuses. Well, someday, maybe you'll get the guts to actually test it and show the truth. Maybe?
bi

[BroMikey]

Hello Turion,

your disbelief of Newton's Laws. you're confusing core loss with cogging.

So, end of argument please.

it after 6 years is ended and the most silly argument I have ever heard of this side of 7th grade
you did not get enough formal schooling to ask important questions. instead you pudder, diddle and piddle in the mire while serious progress is taking place. No special data sets will be given, tho it obviously exists. That must hurt. You earned it.

[Turion]

No bi, I am not confusing cogging with core loss. That is YOUR interpretation of what I said. I love that you post YOUR opinion and then ask that I not argue the point. LOL. Who died and made you king? Nobody. I don't care what you choose to believe. I have had working prototypes of this stuff for years. I know what works and what does not. I agree 100%, core loss is NOT cogging. Never said it was. Cogging (the visible effect of it anyway) goes away at speed. But that magnetic attraction that created cogging in the first place NEVER GOES AWAY. It is just smoothed out at higher RPM. Here's a fun little 7th grade science project for you. Slow the motor turning a rotor and watch as cogging becomes apparent again. Watch what happens to a motor on an actual scope. Have you bothered to even TRY that? But tell me bi, what caused cogging in the first place? YOU said that the attraction of a rotor magnet to the coil core as it approaches is cancelled out by it's attraction BACKWARDS as it is leaving. I say that is incorrect. There is a moment in time when they are perfectly aligned when the magnetic attraction is "lined up" that is NOT cancelled out. I have said that forever. You ridiculed it. As USUAL. I believe it is THIS MOMENT IN TIME that causes cogging. YOU can believe whatever you want. I say when you speed up and the jerking motion is eliminated by the increased RPM, the attraction is STILL THERE, only smoothed out. A "STEADY drag". Now multiply this by the number of coils you have, and then by the number of magnets, and then by the number of revolutions per minute. This is the "magnetic drag" I speak of. You give it whatever name you choose. It is NOT cogging. It is NOT core loss. It is attraction between the rotor magnets and the coil core. That is NOT core loss. Look up core loss. Neither is it "cogging" because cogging is the jerking MOTION that goes away at high enough rpm. It is the exact same FORCE that causes cogging, but smoothed out so much that it is constant. And it is a considerable force. It causes my MY1020 to draw over 36 amps and burn up when there are 12 coils in place. Unless, of course, I implement magnetic neutralization, and then it goes away, and then the 'effect' it has is neutralized. It doesn't "go way" It is just countered by an equal and opposite effect. If you think it takes the same amount of amps to turn a rotor past one coil (with core) as it does to turn it past 12 coils (with cores) you are a moron. I mean besides a COWARD who won't put any money where his mouth is. Drag, not core loss. If you had ever built more than a tinker toy model, maybe I would listen to you for, oh, a second. But you haven't shown ANY evidence of building much of anything. Where's that video of the 7th grade experiment you "claim" to have conducted. YOU can't convince me of something contrary to what I have seen with my very own eyes on countless occasions, when all you do is babble. Where's YOUR proof.

Now if you want to shut up and leave it at that, you with your opinion and me with mine, I'm fine with that. If you're going to continue to speak, how about you put your money where your mouth is? Otherwise shut up. You keep avoiding that bet. Don't EVEN mention it. Don't have the courage of your convictions huh? All mouth and no substance. You're not fooling anyone. A paid school, Your mother would be ashamed of you.

[bistander]

No bi, I am not confusing cogging with core loss. That is YOUR interpretation of what I said. I love that you post YOUR opinion and then ask that I not argue the point. LOL. Who died and made you king? Nobody. I don't care what you choose to believe. I have had working prototypes of this stuff for years. I know what works and what does not. I agree 100%, core loss is NOT cogging. Never said it was. Cogging (the visible effect of it anyway) goes away at speed. But that magnetic attraction that created cogging in the first place NEVER GOES AWAY. It is just smoothed out at higher RPM. Here's a fun little 7th grade science project for you. Slow the motor turning a rotor and watch as cogging becomes apparent again. Watch what happens to a motor on an actual scope. Have you bothered to even TRY that? But tell me bi, what caused cogging in the first place? YOU said that the attraction of a rotor magnet to the coil core as it approaches is cancelled out by it's attraction BACKWARDS as it is leaving. I say that is incorrect. There is a moment in time when they are perfectly aligned when the magnetic attraction is "lined up" that is NOT cancelled out. I have said that forever. You ridiculed it. As USUAL. I believe it is THIS MOMENT IN TIME that causes cogging. YOU can believe whatever you want. I say when you speed up and the jerking motion is eliminated by the increased RPM, the attraction is STILL THERE, only smoothed out. A "STEADY drag". Now multiply this by the number of coils you have, and then by the number of magnets, and then by the number of revolutions per minute. This is the "magnetic drag" I speak of. You give it whatever name you choose. It is NOT cogging. It is NOT core loss. It is attraction between the rotor magnets and the coil core. That is NOT core loss. Look up core loss. Neither is it "cogging" because cogging is the jerking MOTION that goes away at high enough rpm. It is the exact same FORCE that causes cogging, but smoothed out so much that it is constant. And it is a considerable force. It causes my MY1020 to draw over 36 amps and burn up when there are 12 coils in place. Unless, of course, I implement magnetic neutralization, and then it goes away, and then the 'effect' it has is neutralized. It doesn't "go way" It is just countered by an equal and opposite effect. If you think it takes the same amount of amps to turn a rotor past one coil (with core) as it does to turn it past 12 coils (with cores) you are a moron. I mean besides a COWARD who won't put any money where his mouth is. Drag, not core loss. If you had ever built more than a tinker toy model, maybe I would listen to you for, oh, a second. But you haven't shown ANY evidence of building much of anything. Where's that video of the 7th grade experiment you "claim" to have conducted. YOU can't convince me of something contrary to what I have seen with my very own eyes on countless occasions, when all you do is babble. Where's YOUR proof.

Now if you want to shut up and leave it at that, you with your opinion and me with mine, I'm fine with that. If you're going to continue to speak, how about you put your money where your mouth is? Otherwise shut up. You keep avoiding that bet. Don't EVEN mention it. Don't have the courage of your convictions huh? All mouth and no substance. You're not fooling anyone. A paid school, Your mother would be ashamed of you.

There is a moment in time when they are perfectly aligned when the magnetic attraction is "lined up" that is NOT cancelled out. I have said that forever. You ridiculed it.

Yes, because this is your ignorance of Newton's Law and related physics manifesting in illogical reasoning on your part.

So get your hardware, meters, put it together and prove what you say. Please.
bi

[Turion]

Yes, because this is your ignorance of Newton's Law and related physics manifesting in illogical reasoning on your part.

How about your ignorance of the fact that Newton is credited with THREE laws, not one and your constant babbling about "Newton's Law" shows how little you know. So which of the three laws is it that you believe applies here? And how? I have no illogical reasoning. I have a working device. Pretty hard to make THAT go away by wishing and babbling. I have my observations. I have my results. I'm very happy with all of those. You have nothing, which is what you deserve.

[bistander]

How about your ignorance of the fact that Newton is credited with THREE laws, not one and your constant babbling about "Newton's Law" shows how little you know. So which of the three laws is it that you believe applies here? And how? I have no illogical reasoning. I have a working device. Pretty hard to make THAT go away by wishing and babbling. I have my observations. I have my results. I'm very happy with all of those. You have nothing, which is what you deserve.

The noun law can be countable or uncountable. Look it up. And "which" applies, you ask. That's stupid.
bi
edit:

You said "I have a working device."

That is a lie. You do not have a device which works as you have claimed.

Oh yeah, you'll say I put words (as you have claimed) in your mouth. So tell us, what do you mean by working? Sitting in your shop spinning and looking black and beautiful while producing no excess energy?

[Turion]

Yes, the word law can apply to the study of "law", which would mean the study of "laws", plural. But that is not the contest you used it in. You said "Newton's Law." In that context, law is singular and you know it. Nice try, but no cigar. But that's your MO isn't it. Never admit you're wrong. Always attempt to squirm out from under. How about that bet? Did you think I would forget? You can't squirm out of that either. Put up or shut up. You are without a doubt the biggest phony I have ever had the misfortune to run across.

The only "stupid" person here is you, if you don't know which of Newton's laws apply or how, since YOU'RE the one who brought it up in the first place. Can't decide? LOL. Read a book. That's all you're good for anyway.

Yes, I DO have a working machine. That is not a lie. It outputs considerably more than is input. It is the old clunker we have been using to test coil configurations and core material. Funny thing. With the OLD coils, that only put out 120-130 volts at .5 amps, it wouldn't be worth looking at, but the NEW coils put out 270 volts at .75 amps. It is sitting in my friends garage. With just two coils (and their cores) in it, it outputs more than it takes to run. That's why the EE that was there a couple weeks ago brought his boss back to so it. Is it putting out 1,800 to 2,000 watts? No it is not. But it IS outputting around 400 watts on an input of less than 200 watts. That was enough to impress the EE. And it does not even have the magnetic neutralization dialed in. Just "neutral" coils. With only two coils the "drag" is minimal. So you can babble all you want about this stuff not working. The truth is on the bench.

[pmgriphone]

It is sitting in my friends garage. With just two coils (and their cores) in it, it outputs more than it takes to run. That's why the EE that was there a couple weeks ago brought his boss back to so it. Is it putting out 1,800 to 2,000 watts? No it is not. But it IS outputting around 400 watts on an input of less than 200 watts. That was enough to impress the EE. And it does not even have the magnetic neutralization dialed in. Just "neutral" coils. With only two coils the "drag" is minimal. So you can babble all you want about this stuff not working. The truth is on the bench.

Can you post a video of it? Would be nice to see it in live in action.

[bistander]

Yes, the word law can apply to the study of "law", which would mean the study of "laws", plural. But that is not the contest you used it in. You said "Newton's Law." In that context, law is singular and you know it. Nice try, but no cigar. But that's your MO isn't it. Never admit you're wrong. Always attempt to squirm out from under. How about that bet? Did you think I would forget? You can't squirm out of that either. Put up or shut up. You are without a doubt the biggest phony I have ever had the misfortune to run across.

The only "stupid" person here is you, if you don't know which of Newton's laws apply or how, since YOU'RE the one who brought it up in the first place. Can't decide? LOL. Read a book. That's all you're good for anyway.

Yes, I DO have a working machine. That is not a lie. It outputs considerably more than is input. It is the old clunker we have been using to test coil configurations and core material. Funny thing. With the OLD coils, that only put out 120-130 volts at .5 amps, it wouldn't be worth looking at, but the NEW coils put out 270 volts at .75 amps. It is sitting in my friends garage. With just two coils (and their cores) in it, it outputs more than it takes to run. That's why the EE that was there a couple weeks ago brought his boss back to so it. Is it putting out 1,800 to 2,000 watts? No it is not. But it IS outputting around 400 watts on an input of less than 200 watts. That was enough to impress the EE. And it does not even have the magnetic neutralization dialed in. Just "neutral" coils. With only two coils the "drag" is minimal. So you can babble all you want about this stuff not working. The truth is on the bench.

Can you post a video of it? Would be nice to see it in live in action.

Hi pmg,

Good luck with that request. It is basically what I asked him to do 6 years ago, and ever since.

Regards,
bi

Turion,

Thanks for, at least, clarification on your most recent claim of having a functioning over unity device "outputting around 400 watts on an input of less than 200 watts."

I'm with pmgriphone. Please post a video of it live in action, actually doing what you claim.
bi

[Turion]

My intention is to go to Sacramento tomorrow. I would go today, but my friend there is a little tied up with his wife giving birth today, so not a really good time. The coils have been removed from the machine, but I’m sure we could stick them back in, since my reason for going there in the first place is to pick some up. So yes, I can take a video.

pmg, I believe I have your email address, and I will send you a link. It may not be until Sunday as I will be getting back late tomorrow.

bi, I will be happy to post a link for you the moment you make that bet. Can’t admit when you’re wrong. Just avoid it. Won’t put your money where your mouth is. You are just a distraction. I have no desire to EVER prove anything to you. And no reason to.

[bistander]

My intention is to go to Sacramento tomorrow. I would go today, but my friend there is a little tied up with his wife giving birth today, so not a really good time. The coils have been removed from the machine, but I’m sure we could stick them back in, since my reason for going there in the first place is to pick some up. So yes, I can take a video.

pmg, I believe I have your email address, and I will send you a link. It may not be until Sunday as I will be getting back late tomorrow.

bi, I will be happy to post a link for you the moment you make that bet. Can’t admit when you’re wrong. Just avoid it. Won’t put your money where your mouth is. You are just a distraction. I have no desire to EVER prove anything to you. And no reason to.

Can’t admit when you’re wrong.

No, actually I can and do admit when I am wrong. It is something that I seek, and I consider it a learning experience. There have been a couple of occasions on this board, but I have never been wrong in anything I've said about your project.
bi

[Turion]

THEN HOW ABOUT THAT BET, COWARD! Put your money where your mouth is. But you won't. Because you will lose and you know it. You avoid a bet like the plague. DO you think no one notices? Do you think it isn't apparent to everyone that you won't stand behind your words? That you have no backbone? LOL

WRONG? YOU, WRONG? ABSOLUTELY

As the poet said....(kinda)

How wrong can you BE? Let me count the ways.
You are wrong to the depth and breadth and height
YOUR soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of being and ideal grace.
You are incorrect to the level of every day's
Most quiet need, by sun and candle-light.
You are wrong as often as MOST men strive for right.

[bistander]

The truth needs no silly games or cute words. I stand with truth, and fact, reality, science. By all means, prove me wrong, show us all that you have not lied. Do it clearly and cleanly using simultaneous meter readings on the input and output without using your usual erroneous extrapolations and assumptions.
bi

[BroMikey]

I found Bye's rotor. Isn't it wonderful? FREE ENERGY

[Turion]

Make that bet and I’ll be happy to take your money. Put it where your MOUTH is. I’m willing. But you’re just a coward.