The bistander thread

[Turion]

bi,
The original rotor was taken out of the old machine a long time ago, so I can't test these new coils with that particular rotor and magnet combination. It had the six 2" magnets on it. I haven't had time to tear the machine down and put that rotor back in it, and now that all my testing is complete, I see no reason to do that. It became obvious when I tested with the small rotors using different magnets and a single coil what my problem is. I had four magnets on the rotor for each size magnet test, and I connected the single coil up to a 100 watt load.

2" x 1/4" magnets output 50.3 volts at .01 amps to the load. These were the ORIGINAL magnets that (with six of them on the machine) at the correct RPM, output 130 volts at .75 amps
3/4" x 3/4" magnets output 14.9 volts at .00 amps These are the magnets in my CURRENT rotor.
3/4' x 1" magnets output 27.8 volts at .001 amps
1" x 1" magnets output 50.3 volt at .015 amps. A bit better than the original magnets and I can put 20 of them on the rotor instead of six.

Since my current magnets only output 29% of what my original magnets output, I can safely say that changing magnets will make a SIGNIFICANT difference, and should get me back in the ballpark of where I want to be. We shall see.

[bistander]

Hi Turion,
It's been awhile. I have been waiting for you to get your solution implemented and tested. I know that you just started testing, and maybe you'll find some other reason for the low generated voltage, but here's a look-back:

03-01-2022

...
I am fairly certain that the low voltage is due to;
1) low flux, caused by the strange cording (4 poles per coil) or flux leakage.
Or
2) excessive impedance in the coil.
Or
3) combination of 1 and 2.
...

03-04-2022

Yes, that's what I've been saying. New has 4 poles/coil, old has 2 poles/coil. I think it is obvious that the difference in flux through the core is primarily due to different magnetic circuits, not magnet material. What was that 1.3 vs 1.4T? Not much.
...
bi

03-05-2022

... I still think that proximity of nearby rotor magnets interfere causing flux to bypass portions of the coil.
...

05-18-2022

bi,
... It became obvious when I tested with the small rotors using different magnets and a single coil what my problem is. I had four magnets on the rotor for each size magnet test, and I connected the single coil up to a 100 watt load.
...
Since my current magnets only output 29% of what my original magnets output, I can safely say that changing magnets will make a SIGNIFICANT difference, and should get me back in the ballpark of where I want to be. We shall see.

06-20-2022

... My test yesterday showed almost NO voltage output from my coil, so I don't know what the heck is going on. Even LESS voltage that the 3/4 x 3/4 diameter magnets I had previously. ...

It's difficult to recall exactly all the changes made, so correct me if needed.

From 24 - 3/4" magnets to 20 - 1" magnets.

New core material.

Longer core.

Increased turns/coil.

From 6 to 5 coils per side.

So still about the same cording (4 poles per coil).

FWIW,
bi

[Turion]

Originally Six 2" x 1/4" magnets on the rotor
Recently....From 24 3/4" x 3/4" mags to 20 1" x 1"
New core material
same number of coils per side = 6

When I tried four magnet test rotors all run at the same rpm, all with the same distance between center of rotor and center of magnet. I used a single coil. The 2" x 1/4" magnet rotors produced exactly the same coil output as the 1" x 1" magnet rotor. Which is why I had a new large rotor made with that configuration. The 3/4" x 3/4" magnet test rotor only put out about 25% of that output at exactly the same RPM. So going from 2" diameter to 3/4" diameter, even though I had five times as many magnets, I shot myself in the foot.

[bistander]

Originally Six 2" x 1/4" magnets on the rotor
Recently....From 24 3/4" x 3/4" mags to 20 1" x 1"
New core material
same number of coils per side = 6

When I tried four magnet test rotors all run at the same rpm, all with the same distance between center of rotor and center of magnet. I used a single coil. The 2" x 1/4" magnet rotors produced exactly the same coil output as the 1" x 1" magnet rotor. Which is why I had a new large rotor made with that configuration. The 3/4" x 3/4" magnet test rotor only put out about 25% of that output at exactly the same RPM. So going from 2" diameter to 3/4" diameter, even though I had five times as many magnets, I shot myself in the foot.

Thanks. What was the radius distance from rotor center to magnet center on the 4 pole test rotors, please?
bi

[Turion]

https://youtu.be/FN4SaS1zRHE
Test Rotor info

[bistander]

Interesting essay from:

https://hermitshavenvt.medium.com/th...a-b130db8b291a

The Harder Problem of Free Energy: an Episodic Saga Chapter 7: Right Thought, Right Speech, Right Action

Perhaps harder even than the problem of free energy, the hardest problem of all may be opening hearts and minds to new perspectives. A paradigm shift requires radical acceptance of a previously inconceivable narrative by consensus reality, and with society so deeply entrenched in our materialist world we have seemingly been fettered by chains of our own making. While sciences at large begin to delve into the study of the unseen, people are resistant due to generations of authority figures in religious, entertainment and political positions steering the narrative to lead us to what now seems like a point of no return. The global populous has become disillusioned with the power structure on which the status quo that no longer serves them depends. The only thing preventing progress at this turning point is the illusion of divide due to misplaced values and fear of the unknown. Thousands of years ago this predicament was forseen, and the consequences of such a fractured society were just as dire then as they are now.

“Pure philosophy is spiritual striving through constant contemplation to attain true knowledge of Atum the one God. Speaking now in prophecy I say that in times to come no one will pursue philosophy with single mindedness and purity of heart. Those with a grudging and ungenerous temperament will try and prevent men discovering the priceless gift of immortality. Philosophy will become confused making it hard to comprehend. It will be corrupted by spurious speculation. It will be entangled with bewildering sciences like arithmetic, music and geometry. The student of philosophy studies the sciences not as fanciful theories, but as devotion to Atum because they reveal a universe perfectly ordered by the power of number. Because measuring the depths of the sea and forces of fire and magnitudes of physical things leads to irreverent awe at the creator’s skill and wisdom. Because the mysteries of music bear witness to the unsurpassed talent of the supreme artist who has beautifully harmonized all things into a single whole suffused with sweet melodies. To simply love Atum in thought with singleness of heart and to follow the goodness of his will, this is philosophy. Unsullied by intrusive cravings for pointless opinions. But I foresee that in times to come clever intellectuals will mislead the minds of men, turning them away from pure philosophy.”

— Hermes Trismegistos, The Hermetica

Through time, like a game of telephone, the information passed down to us has become distorted. Despite the natural evolution of culture throughout time and space, science was always the pursuit of theories and still is to this day. The scientific method developed as a way to quantify the difference between a theory that is generally accepted based on repeatable testability and a hypothesis that has no grounding in the physical world. Today we oftentimes hear the term “woo” used to describe the latter, regardless of what rigorous testing the theory has been through in order to produce results from which to build stronger theories. The derision with which ideas, beliefs and hypotheses are regarded is almost nonsensical in the realm of nuts-and-bolts given that the scientific method of experimentation requires a hypothesis from which to build a testable experiment. Don’t even get me started on how freely assumptions are accepted in scientific studies. At a certain point we must invoke Occam’s Razor — the simplest reason for such visceral contempt for new ideas is due to one’s attachment to their egoic perspective or fear of the unknown, and resulting confirmation bias can only be met effectively with curiosity and compassion.

More difficult than the building of the pyramids would have been creating the motivation for generations of populations to devote entire careers and lives to the necessary labor. Until recently, as previously mentioned, historians claimed that pharaohs enslaved peoples to construct them, but it has since been discovered that the builders dedicated their lives to the cause of their own volition. What could have motivated anyone to dedicate their entire lives to such backbreaking labor without any promise of living long enough to see the project through to fruition? Such intrinsic motivation would indicate that their aesthetic needs had been met, as archaeologists are beginning to unearth, and they were thus able to focus on the pursuit of self-actualization. What could the pyramids have produced that the devotion of one’s life to their construction for the benefit of future generations would have satisfied a deeper need to realize and fulfill one’s full potential?

This is the harder problem of free energy. In order for generations of a country’s people to put in the human capital to build structures that amplify and direct the electromagnetic energy of the earth and the cosmos using piezoelectric materials precisely aligned and placed to interact with geology and magnetism requires convincing that population to put faith in the power of unseen forces. A greater feat still is for those with vested power to have the divinity of heart and mind, or effective checks and balances, to resist corruption and greed for generations to invest in a technology that would increase the quality of life for everyone equally, indefinitely. Whether you believe the pyramids were created for clean, free energy, stargate or interdimensional travel, scalar healing, rituals or memorials one thing is clear — how we perceive and react to the unknown is indicative of our ability to evolve as a species, because when we put an end to hypotheses we put an end to science.

In today’s individualistic language we could compare the burden of proof to return on investment, or ROI. If we want to see an investment of money, time or energy into something, we’d better be sure to provide an ROI or that investor will seek another avenue that will better meet their needs. Shifting our perspective back to our thought experiment, what could possibly be the ROI to motivate generations of Egyptians who would never see the finished pyramids to invest their whole lives into building them? Coincidentally, what institution developed around the same time whose mission it is to foster faith in the unknown? Could it be that religion began as a means to preserve knowledge of the unseen throughout the ages, and when the effect of such devotion was realized then clever intellectuals took advantage of the ROI to rise to positions of power themselves, and develop power structures to maintain their favored status quo?

To answer, or even ask, these questions we need to let go of egoic attachments to our own confirmation biases, and the only way to confront the fear of the unknown that feeds them is to look within. Society has developed to a point that centralized institutions do not work to benefit populations on a large scale due to barriers preventing collaboration in the face of competitive capitalist environments. Successful collaboration between necessarily differing perspectives toward a common goal requires the ability to honor our differences and turn the other cheek, and to do so we must be steadfast in what it is we value most, progressing with curiosity and compassion. Let’s shed the fetters of fear and evolve into the light.

The above is quoted from the link. For your reading pleasure.
bi

[bistander]

9E4690FB-180C-4C49-9911-2C995EF5EE46.jpeg D360C353-BE34-4B04-B13A-343005AAEE33.jpeg All glued in magnets removed from rotor. Soaking in acetone to remove glue. All the ones currently in the rotor are North, so will install five South to have a N/S ten magnet rotor with LOTS of space between the magnets. If this solves the problem, will look at having sleeves made for each magnet.

Hi Turion,
nice to see progress. BTW, metal sleeves on magnets are a bad idea. There is no benefit but several downsides. Ask the company that sells them to you.
bi

[BroMikey]

,
BTW, metal sleeves on magnets are a bad idea.
bi

since you are the expert, show us a video proof or stop going on about things you don't know. he said she goose chase is worthless. Let's see it on the bench. Or is that to much to ask? Where is your demo?

[bistander]

Turion,
ask your magnet vendor. You buy enough from him to justify a simple answer from his engineer. Don't believe me; certainly don't believe the other guy here.
bi

[BroMikey]

Turion,
ask your magnet vendor. You buy enough from him to justify a simple answer from his engineer. Don't believe me; certainly don't believe the other guy here.
bi

Hey dopey
magnet shield sellers tell you right online what they are used for. Do your homework

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp...ding-materials

Conclusion


....... involving large, powerful neodymium magnets, the higher saturation point of steel serves better. In many specific cases we're asked about, a steel sheet-metal shield is often the best solution.

Please make a note of this so in case you forget again.

[Turion]

I sent an email to K&J Magnetics to their technical department. I explained the specific application and asked if they knew what distance the magnets had to be apart on the rotor and what that distance would be with shielding. I won't have the machine back together until tomorrow. Waiting for the gel to set up

[bistander]

I sent an email to K&J Magnetics to their technical department. I explained the specific application and asked if they knew what distance the magnets had to be apart on the rotor and what that distance would be with shielding. I won't have the machine back together until tomorrow. Waiting for the gel to set up

Good for you. I like K&J. Hopefully you gave them your core and coil dimensions.

From the link:

"Magnetic shielding does not block a magnetic field. No material can stop the lines of flux from traveling from a magnet's north pole to it's south pole. The field can, however, be redirected."

So why shield (redirect) the flux away from the core/coil?
bi

[Turion]

I think the idea is to let it come out the end (you can't prevent it) but the shielding is on the sides of the magnets so its field gets pressed in from the sides and still goes into the other end. If it is pressed in from the sides it wouldn't overlap the field of the next magnet, which is the opposite polarity, neutralizing or counteracting some of it. I haven't read enough about this, and I haven't experimented with it on the bench.

[bistander]

I think the idea is to let it come out the end (you can't prevent it) but the shielding is on the sides of the magnets so its field gets pressed in from the sides and still goes into the other end. If it is pressed in from the sides it wouldn't overlap the field of the next magnet, which is the opposite polarity, neutralizing or counteracting some of it. I haven't read enough about this, and I haven't experimented with it on the bench.

"Magnetic shielding does not block a magnetic field. No material can stop the lines of flux from traveling from a magnet's north pole to it's south pole. The field can, however, be redirected."
bi

[Turion]

And wouldn’t what I stated be classified as “redirecting” the field?

Here is the response I got from K&J

“You can use steel to shield the field of a magnet. Placing a magnet in a steel sleeve might help your situation, and could actually increase the field at the open face of the magnet. We don't sell any steel tubing or sleeves though.”

Best Regards,

Steve Maxwell
K&J Magnetics, Inc.

Seems like they agree. There are a couple other sources I will contact to let them weigh in. As always, I will believe what I see on the bench.