The bistander thread

[BroMikey]

I made the mistake of using SQUARE magnets, ......

And it didn't just "magically" work. We tried all kinds of things to try and understand what was going on .........

MOST of the magnetic attraction is neutralized. Enough so the output is much greater than the input

So far, it has been running since 8:30 this morning, so a little over 12 hours, and all is well.

Wow so awesome another miracle attraction neutralized. I don't care how that happened as long as it did. Running so long with no melted coils much make you very happy. Time to celebrate. whats the deal on the cop 1 T switch?

[Turion]

I put together that Tesla switch with the simple rotor and the bifilar coil. I wanted to make sure it WORKED before I posted it, so I ran it for a few days. I realized that all the improvements I wanted to show about how to boost it up to a COP>1 would NOT work with that bifilar coil setup. It needs two separate coils. If I have to redo the thing with two separate coils, I might as well build the two coil setup that is COP>1 from the get go, rather than build one that barely works and then have to build a SECOND one that takes advantage of all the things I have learned. I could show SOME things, with the rotor and dual coils, but to take advantage of ALL of them, it needs to be a DUAL rotor setup as WELL as at least a dual coil setup. So that is what I am going to build. I also just got the last two batteries I needed for the BIG Tesla switch I am building that has 12 batteries in it, so I am working on THAT when I actually have ANY time.

[Turion]

Re: GENERATOR

Latest video from the guys testing the machines. Running the 120V Pacific Scientific Motor on the NEW machine using two coils from the the OLD machine without Lenz reaction slowing the Old machine down. Can't wait to get there tomorrow and do some testing.
https://youtu.be/uc9vcEqPTz8

[BroMikey]

Re: GENERATOR

Latest video from the guys testing the machines. Running the 120V Pacific Scientific Motor on the NEW machine using two coils from the the OLD machine without Lenz reaction slowing the Old machine down. Can't wait to get there tomorrow and do some testing.
https://youtu.be/uc9vcEqPTz8

I am unsure what your statement says. 120v running off 2 coils slowing down? No opposition magnets? Clearly there are 2 machines running. 1 runs 2800 rpm the other runs 2390rpm

It sounds like you are saying the 2390 is looped. that dirty word. But it can't be working at 2400 can it? If that is what you meant I can see why you are so excited. Breaking the law

The other 10 coils do not drag the system down? Or will they? Put some round magnets in those square holes.

[Turion]

The Pacific Scientific Motor is turning the rotor of the NEW machine. That PacSci is a 120V DC motor. It is being supplied rectified power from TWO of the generator coils on the OLD machine which is run by an MY1020 Razor scooter motor at 36 volts on about 4 amps. If you look at the video, the rotor of the machine supplying the generated power (the old machine) is running at around 2800 rpm. The rotor of the NEW machine is only turning at a little over 200 rpm, NOT 2000. You didn't look at the meter close enough. There is a decimal point there. I'm not saying ANYTHING is looped. I am just showing what we are doing. The important thing for ME is that the PacSci motor is running on the output of the generator coils and it is NOT invoking Lenz law in the operation of the small razor scooter motor turning the old generator to produce the generated power. LENZ FREE GENERATION OF POWER. They have had all six coil pair connected to loads at one time (300 watt light bulbs) and the rpm of the MY1020 motor increases only a few RPM and does not slow down from Lenz. So they have demonstrated they can run RESISTIVE LOADS with no Lenz. Now they have demonstrated they can do the same thing with an INDUCTIVE LOAD.

The coils I am using are NOT Tesla Style coils. They are simply 3 strands of #23 wire wound in Parallel and connected in parallel. So all the "debunking" crap about Tesla style coils does NOT apply to these coils. We are simply taking advantage of what Tesla taught us about how to run loads with NO LENZ!

AND DOING IT

We haven't added in the opposition magnets, which will only INCREASE the rpm of the rotor for the input to the motor. That's all it does. It reduces the strain on the motor to overcome the magnetic attraction. One of the first things I will be doing tomorrow is getting the old machine up to speed and then showing what happens when I start adding coils (with cores) for the rotor magnets to go by. I have been told by bistander that once at speed, it makes no difference. I believe that is a false statement and that the motor rpm will be reduced by the addition of the coils and the cores. Tomorrow I will shoot some video and we will see who is correct. If bi is correct, it will be worth changing the topology of the machine.

Bro, I absolutely LOVED your idea about putting a round peg (magnet) in a square hole. If I can find round magnets that will fit in those tubes, It will be awesome. If you had told me this years ago, I never would have had to build a new machine. LOL I have no idea why I didn't think of it. Too fixated I guess.

[BroMikey]

Bro, I absolutely LOVED your idea about putting a round peg (magnet) in a square hole. If I can find round magnets that will fit in those tubes, It will be awesome. If you had told me this years ago, I never would have had to build a new machine. LOL I have no idea why I didn't think of it. Too fixated I guess.

That is good news, I'll be looking foreword to the next video you shoot. Don't forget the lager. Hey put sleeves on the round magnets to shim up the hole and the sleeve will be the screw holder.

Don't buy that GMO piz-water .......... PS bi will have to admit he was wrong as usual

[bistander]

... One of the first things I will be doing tomorrow is getting the old machine up to speed and then showing what happens when I start adding coils (with cores) for the rotor magnets to go by. I have been told by bistander that once at speed, it makes no difference. I believe that is a false statement and that the motor rpm will be reduced by the addition of the coils and the cores. Tomorrow I will shoot some video and we will see who is correct. If bi is correct, it will be worth changing the topology of the machine.
..

Re: Generator

Turion,

You still have it wrong. I did not say this..... "I have been told by bistander that once at speed, it makes no difference." Adding cores will make a difference. I have said repeatedly that adding cores will increase core loss at a given RPM and that will increase the load on the drive motor. What I say is that the core at TDC to the magnet causes no force tangential to the radius of rotation, therefore no torque loading, hence equalization magnets have no effect on a loading torque which isn't there in the first place. I have described the method to prove that, and verified it on my bench. But to be clear, adding cores will increase the load at a constant RPM because you increase core loss with each core added, whether you have opposition magnets or not.
bi

[Turion]

Re: Generator
So according to you, there will be core losses just because cores are added, and this will be reflected in increased work by the prime mover, and that the addition of repulsion magnets will have NO affect on reducing or eliminating this added work. Does that about sum it up? So rpm will go down (and amp draw up) when more cores are added (coils with cores) but rpm will not go back up with the addition of neutralizing magnets and amp draw will not go back down. Correct?

[bistander]

Re: Generator
So according to you, there will be core losses just because cores are added, and this will be reflected in increased work by the prime mover, and that the addition of repulsion magnets will have NO affect on reducing or eliminating this added work. Does that about sum it up?

Yes, pretty much. I don't go so far as to claim "no affect" because I think additional losses will be introduced with the addition of those "repulsion" magnets, however this may be small enough to go undetected. The addition of those magnets will not reduce the needed input torque (load on prime mover) as you claim.

So rpm will go down (and amp draw up) when more cores are added (coils with cores) but rpm will not go back up with the addition of neutralizing magnets and amp draw will not go back down. Correct?

Correct about the amp draw and likely correct about the RPM. The RPM is dependent on the drive motor type and control system. Some types of motors and/or controls will maintain constant RPM as the load varies, such as a synchronous motor or some BLDC. Also "constant RPM" is a test condition or qualification of claim.
But as I've seen you or your agents conduct such tests using open loop induction or DC motors, the RPM does reduce as the load (amp draw) increases.
bi
ps. Good luck testing. Hope everything holds together and good data is obtained.

[BroMikey]

Bi keeps flip flopping his story "AT SPEED" anyway looks like you will have him converted, he won't be able to wiggle out verbally this time.

I'll bet you guys are having a blast.

[BroMikey]

How goes it with chitty chitty bang bang? Did you get snookered again? Obsolete.

[Turion]

Nothing fell apart. Everything worked perfectly. We ended up tearing both machines apart so we could replace the square opposition magnets in the old machine with round ones and the thick opposition magnets in the new machine with thinner ones. Will be ordering magnets as soon as they get the measurements done. Our time got cut short, but we got lots done. Lots of testing, though not everything I wanted. Ran out of time and the guy whose house we were at had to leave for a previous engagement. I thought we were going to have all day or I never would have driven three hours round trip to spend three hours there.

[BroMikey]

Nothing fell apart. I thought we were going to have all day or I never would have driven three hours round trip to spend three hours there.

You forgot to ask how long? You got a bunch done instead of waiting. Now the magnets will get paid for and those guys will get them in. Next trip find out who wants to hang out. Sounds like they threw you out and you had to drive back.

[Turion]

Re: GENERATOR

Well, about 99% of our test data from yesterday is worthless. I got a text message from the guys this morning and called them. We took both machines apart yesterday to deal with the opposition magnets in both machines. SO today, taking magnets out, they discovered a few things. Apparently when the machinist put the OLD machine back together, he reversed the rotor. This means that the opposition magnets were all in attraction to the rotor magnets as well as the coils being in attraction. Although the magnets have been retracted all the way, they are still close enough to cause an increased amp draw from the prime mover. So most of the data from that machine is worthless. And it affects the ONE test I am going to talk about, but I have no idea how significantly.

As for the NEW machine, when they took the magnets out of the rotor to reduce the number from 20 to 10, they did NOT reverse every other one that was left in the rotor as instructed.. They simply removed every other magnet, which left all SOUTH magnets in the rotor. That accounts for the crappy power output. PLUS the opposition magnets definitely need to be replace. So NONE of the data from that machine is worth anything at this point. Weeks worth of tying to figure out the problem all wasted time.

The ONE test we did that I believe is WORTH something is the test we did on the old machine. The input to the motor was 36 volts at 7 amps. We took the output power from TWO coils, rectified it, and ran the 120V DC motor on the NEW machine (before any of these problems were discovered.) It was able to turn that motor at a specific rpm that we recorded. Then we plugged a Variac into a kilowatt meter, rectified the output and ran that same 120V DC motor from the "wall" so we could see how many watts of power it took FROM THE WALL to get the motor up to that exact rpm. It was 220 watts. So at least I know that the coils are outputting AROUND 210 watts at the RPM the old machine was running at with a 12 magnet rotor. That's about what I expected. It would blow out a 100 watt light bulb and quite often a 200 watt bulb, so that's why we went to 300 watt bulbs for testing. The thought was that with 24 magnets on the NEW rotor rather than 12, we would increase the output. And the rpm we were "matching" was not the max rpm the motor should have been capable of for the input because of the reversed rotor situation. So even that data is faulty. It doesn't REALLY tell us what the coil is capable of when run on the old machine, only what it is capable of at that rpm. ANyway, it will be days before we have things back together again to do testing AGAIN. But it is progress.

[BroMikey]

Reverse magnets, monkeyed rotor magnet polarity shows no body had a clue how these machines are to work. You need to set those guys down in a training session before you turn them loose on the project. So the machinist put it together? Then these guys don't have a magnet polarity tester. Nobody there has a clue. They just do what they are told like robots. bless their hearts. Well now we know they are not scientists