The bistander thread

[Rakarskiy]

Bistander, I know the technology very well. And this technology is not Holcomb's alone. It's just that he built devices and demonstrated them, even though he didn't understand all the subtleties. His commercial side is of little interest to me. I am an advocate of open technological code. The task is to bring it to the ability to perform by a garage master. Yes, we do it. When I explained to an engineer that the excitation current of the rotor of a synchronous generator should decrease when the phase load is switched on, he sort of twiddled his thumb at me. We had this moment of argument. But when I myself recorded this drop of current in the excitation circuit, I was surprised with the declaration that this is an unexplored effect. The question is, is it so? So stay in your illusions, I always bring everything to its logical conclusion. In any case, I do not hide anything from anyone. The ability to perceive my information lies in the preparedness of the reader. This is a simple synchronous generator system with magnetic poles.


563386155.jpg

[bistander]

Bistander, I know the technology very well. And this technology is not Holcomb's alone. It's just that he built devices and demonstrated them, even though he didn't understand all the subtleties. His commercial side is of little interest to me. I am an advocate of open technological code. The task is to bring it to the ability to perform by a garage master. Yes, we do it. When I explained to an engineer that the excitation current of the rotor of a synchronous generator should decrease when the phase load is switched on, he sort of twiddled his thumb at me. We had this moment of argument. But when I myself recorded this drop of current in the excitation circuit, I was surprised with the declaration that this is an unexplored effect. The question is, is it so? So stay in your illusions, I always bring everything to its logical conclusion. In any case, I do not hide anything from anyone. The ability to perceive my information lies in the preparedness of the reader. This is a simple synchronous generator system with magnetic poles.


563386155.jpg

So prove that it can produce more real power than it has input.
bi

{edit}

Concerning your comments on the excitation current, I checked with an on-line source. Here is that conversation:

Hello. My question concerns a synchronous generator running at constant speed and a load is applied across a output phase. How does that affect excitation current?
ChatGPT said:

Hello, bi! In a synchronous generator, when a load is applied, the excitation current adjusts to maintain the output voltage and balance the system’s power requirements. Here’s a closer look at what happens:

Increased Load Demand: When a load is added, the generator's output current rises to meet the demand. This causes a voltage drop due to the impedance (especially reactance) of the generator windings.

Voltage Regulation: To maintain a constant terminal voltage despite the increased load, the generator’s automatic voltage regulator (AVR) increases the excitation current. This boosted excitation strengthens the rotor’s magnetic field, helping to counteract the voltage drop caused by the load.

Stable Power Factor and Efficiency: If the load is inductive (common in many systems), the excitation current may further increase to counteract the phase shift and maintain a stable power factor. This minimizes reactive power effects and ensures efficient operation.

In summary, the excitation current rises with added load to maintain the generator’s voltage and compensate for any reactive power drawn by inductive loads.

You said:
Thanks, as I suspected. What if there is no regulation, just a constant voltage across the field?

ChatGPT said:

You said:
Hello. Did you see my question?

ChatGPT said:

Hello, bi! Yes, I see your question now.

If the synchronous generator's field is supplied by a constant, unregulated DC voltage (no automatic voltage regulation), then the excitation current remains fixed regardless of load changes. Here’s how that affects the generator when a load is applied:

Voltage Drop: As load increases, the output current also increases, and the internal impedance of the generator (particularly its synchronous reactance) causes a voltage drop across the output. Without regulation to boost the excitation current, this voltage drop will not be compensated. Therefore, the terminal voltage will decrease as the load increases.

Reduced Voltage Stability: Since there's no adjustment in excitation to counteract the effects of load, the generator’s output voltage varies with load demand. For instance, under heavy load, the output voltage will be significantly lower than the no-load voltage.

Power Factor and Reactive Power: If the load is inductive, the generator's lagging power factor worsens the voltage drop. The fixed excitation field is unable to compensate for the increased reactive power demand, which would typically require higher excitation to keep the voltage steady.

In short, without regulation, the generator's ability to maintain a steady output voltage across varying loads is compromised. The generator will experience a "drooping" voltage as the load increases, affecting the stability and efficiency of the power it supplies.

You said:
Thanks. This confirms my interpretation of theory. That's all for now.

ChatGPT said:

Memory updated
You're very welcome, bi! Glad I could confirm your interpretation. Feel free to reach out anytime—I'm here to help with any more questions.

[bistander]

Hello Ufopolitics, I hope you read this,

I see on your forum your recent post concerning armature winds.
https://overunitymachines.com/index....7d14f3102c351e 72a5ffd2cc
It appears to me that you illustrate a duplex lap wound armature.

Multiplex armatures are old school and Google was of little assistance. In fact, it brought up several website with descriptions of duplex lap which were wrong. I thought I would need to dust off a old textbook to find a correct explanation and diagram to forward to you. But I did find a video that is correct.

The duplex winding pattern does provide two distinct circuits however during rotation, the brushes always connect the two circuits in parallel. It's use is for high current and low voltage motors or generators.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

Evidence? So any generator, in excitation-generation conversion action has an efficiency greater than 100 and well over that. And mechanical force is the condition of moving excited magnetic poles in a magnetised stator. The constant that the electromagnetic generator is a converter of mechanical energy into electrical energy is a pure lie of official physics. The Lorentz force is very controversial evidence, especially in the phenomenon of the Anapole moment of electromagnetic induction. You see how easy it is to doubt in you revered postulates in which you believe but do not understand their mechanism.
Lenz's rule is also pure rubbish in modern interpretation, see the original source.

[bistander]

Evidence? So any generator, in excitation-generation conversion action has an efficiency greater than 100 and well over that. And mechanical force is the condition of moving excited magnetic poles in a magnetised stator. The constant that the electromagnetic generator is a converter of mechanical energy into electrical energy is a pure lie of official physics. The Lorentz force is very controversial evidence, especially in the phenomenon of the Anapole moment of electromagnetic induction. You see how easy it is to doubt in you revered postulates in which you believe but do not understand their mechanism.
Lenz's rule is also pure rubbish in modern interpretation, see the original source.

What?
Nevermind.
bi

[bistander]

Hi all,
I've been following another forum, OUM, thread about Lockridge device. Ufopolitics is designing his version. I have not analyzed the original device but have been following Ufo's explanations on his approach. I'll just list some comments below for those interested.
bi

.... Nomenclature, what to call what. Helpful to use standard jargon of the field. Such as found here:

Screenshot_20241127-000532_copy_1024x909.png

From:
https://eeebooks4u.wordpress.com/202...-a-dc-machine/


Also concerning armature windings:

Screenshot_20241127-001743.png

Read the article here:
https://www.electrical4u.com/armatur...mutator-pitch/

The idea to reduce the coil pitch without altering some other items will produce unintended consequences.

I have stated before that all rotating motors are running as generators, so having a single dynamo simultaneously function both as a motor and as a generator is reasonable. Using a single armature and accessing a generated voltage different from a supplied source while rotating (as a motor or as a generator) by adding auxiliary brushes to the commutator has been done successfully. One such device invented by Dr. Middlebrook is called a rotary transformer. I was able to witness the functioning prototype years ago. It did work as claimed (OU was never claimed). But I'll reference the patent as it may provide insight to armature winding and multiple brush set commutation.

Screenshot_20241126-223056.png

[bistander]

deleted duplicate post

[bistander]

Just an f.y.i.

Those Ford 6 volt generators were likely used in the model A, positive ground vehicles, not that it matters.
bi

[bistander]

As I continue to follow that Lockridge thread, I am pleased to see the reference to this text:
https://archive.org/details/hawkins-...e-series-books
It does teach correctly basic aspects of electric machinery, with only a few mistakes noticed.

This lesson:

Screenshot_20241128-134654_copy_1024x869.png

I like. It shows plainly and reinforces my claim motors and generators are the same.

A mistake, which I mentioned, concerns the cause of the shift of the neutral plane. It can be seen in the diagram that everything is the same between the generator and the motor except for the direction of armature current and the neutral plane shift. And it is this armature current which is the cause of the neutral plane shift, not rotation. In another section of his text, the author claims rotation of the armature causes this neutral plane shift. That shift is due to armature field distortion caused by current, and nothing about rotation. The diagram above shows this.

In another chapter he discusses armature winding and covers multiplex. A rather obscure feature that I mentioned recently. A feature which was incorrectly defined numerous places simply relying on Google search. These old textbooks are great resources.
bi

[bistander]

Mr Rakarskiy,
While reading through a few sections of this reference presented by Ufopolitics, I noticed that the author states his opinion, which is very much like what I have been telling you concerning "wires in grooves". I've copied and pasted below:

From:
https://archive.org/details/hawkins-...e-series-books
_______

Smooth and Slotted Armatures.—
The inductors of an armature may be placed on a smooth drum or in slots cut in the surface parallel to the axis.
In the first instance, the magnetic drag comes on the inductors, and in the case of slots, upon the teeth. The effect of embedding the armature inductors in slots is to distort the magnetic field as shown in fig. 296. Most of the lines of force pass through the teeth, thus, not only are the inductors better placed for driving purposes, but, being screened magnetically by the teeth, the forces acting on them are reduced, the greater part of the magnetic drag being taken up by the core.
It should be noted that, although screened from the field, the inductors in a slotted armature cut magnetic lines precisely as if they were not protected. The effect is as though the magnetic lines flashed across the slots from tooth to tooth, instead of passing across the intermediate slot at the ordinary angular velocity.

(my bolding)
bi


Screenshot_20241128-172136.png

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Screenshot_20241128-125730.png

Edit.
2nd image from:
https://archive.org/details/hawkins-...e/275/mode/1up

______

[Rakarskiy]

Mr bistander

So the whole history of education on the planet, does not reveal the essence of how the formation of EMF in the stator groove occurs. My one good reader (to prove to me that I am wrong in my conclusions), asked his acquaintances in Israel to make a fixation of the maximum EMF in the generator phase, relative to the position of the rotor. I never waited for the documentary confirmation of my misconceptions. One I do not understand why not to give the general public the data of these measurements. But it was my reader friend who changed his opinion.
Everyone has the right to his own delusions and a labyrinth to get out of them. I have passed my way of labyrinths.

With respect.

[bistander]

So I've been continuing to study the Hawkins Electrical Guide and this diagram in particular.

Screenshot_20241129-215709.png

Figure 289.
It depicts a dynamo as a generator under load. One can confirm generator mode by the direction of rotation indicated by the author, the polarity of the main field and directions of current in the armature conductors. The purpose is to aid in the author's explanation of field weakening when the commutation plane is shifted away from the neutral plane.

When you read carefully, you will understand that the smaller N and S labels in the circle representing the armature only apply to the field attributable to conductors 34-36 and 16-18, which buck the main field. The remaining armature currents produce the typical armature field direction at quadrature to the main field.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

Mr bistander. If you look at the currents in the armature conductors, the magnetic field in the ring core is obviously not the same as in the picture. The polarisation of the core from the outer poles of the stator cannot be as in the picture either. Take and carry out modelling in the appropriate program, is it difficult in the 21st century.

Regards

[bistander]

Mr bistander. If you look at the currents in the armature conductors, the magnetic field in the ring core is obviously not the same as in the picture. The polarisation of the core from the outer poles of the stator cannot be as in the picture either. Take and carry out modelling in the appropriate program, is it difficult in the 21st century.

Regards

Hi Rakarskiy,
The representation depicted in figure 289 does coincide with the author's description of the portion of the armature field which bucks or opposes the main field due to currents in conductors 34-36 and 16-18 when the commutating plane is rotated from the natural neutral plane as shown. Read on page 269.
"The current in inductors 1 to 15 and 19 to 33, tends to cross magnetize the magnetic field of the machine, but the current in inductors 34 to 36 and 16 to 18 tends to produce north and south poles as indicated."

I, unfortunately, have not the means to produce FEMM. But if you do, please post. Thanks for the discussion.
bi

[Rakarskiy]

Hi bistander,

The FEMM programme in its simplest version is absolutely free for users. Just download and master it.

HomePage:Finite Element Method Magnetics

Finite Element Method Magnetics:Finite Element Method Magnetics


Try it out, it's not difficult. I mastered it five years ago, now I am 60 years old. By the way it is the design and verification on the design of magnetic circuits is very instructive, asks many questions to modern constants.

Regards.