Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

[bistander]

Coil design

... When you measure the ohms of the coil they only differ by .2 ohms, yet the ones with 5.5 ohms will NOT speed up under load where the one with 5.6 ohms WILL at 2800 rpm with my rotor, and so will then with 5.7 ohms. The devil is in the details. I have learned a lot of crap about this the hard way, and I HATE winding coils.

A percent or two resistance could be caused by difference in winding tension which can actually stretch small gauge copper wire reducing its diameter increasing its resistance.

Also, temperature has a large influence on copper resistivity. Variation in ambient from morning to afternoon can easily account for several percent change in resistance.

A coil's resistance will often be 30 to 40% higher at temperature associated with rated load operation versus cold ambient room temperature. All this fuss adjusting coil parameters at room temperature won't apply at working conditions, will it?

While I'm on the subject, I read over some of N. Tesla's work on bifilar coils. But I could not easily find instance where he addressed multi-filar, meaning more than the two conductors side-by-side in the coil. Can anybody provide a reference for me?

Regards,

bi

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for the guidance, maybe I will do 24 then.
If the coil becomes too much, I will just make a bigger coil former.

Hi bromikey, thanks for engouraging words, yes, I will be testing that 51 strand - 30awg. coil also with this setup.

I have 3 strands wound so far, had some wire tangle issues I needed to work out, steady as she goes.
peace love light

[bistander]

Bifilar coils

Tesla Patent 512,340

The basis for everything I have done with these coils I wind. Also predates Thane Heins by a year or two, and is in the public domain. Free for everyone who understands what it means and how to apply it to BOTH motors and generators. Which I have done.

Yes Turion, l read that before. He speaks of only bifilar winding, and the standard monofilar. He says nothing about, 3, 4, 5, ... multi beyond 2, the bifilar. My question is: where, or why use multi, or more than 2, bifilar? It does not appear N. Tesla teaches that.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Multifilar

Tesla’s patent says when two wires are in parallel and you connect the end of one to the beginning of the next the capacitance in the coil increases because of the relationship between the turns. I thought it only LOGICAL to see if adding more strands in parallel had INCREASED capacitance effect. Turns out it does. Wind a coil with 24 strands and start connecting them in different combinations.
2 strands of 12 in series will get you speed up under load at a reduced speed of the rotor from 12 strands of two in series. Same amount of wire, same number of turns. Just a difference in capacitance because of how the wires are connected.

Clues in his quote from the patent which you posted and from known physics of capacitance, going "multi", more than 2 which is bifilar, is counterproductive, or in other words, yields less energy storage in capacitance than a bifilar coil of equivalent turns and resistance.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Who cares?

Then build them your way. I don’t care.

Maybe the folks building to your instructions care.

[BroMikey]

2 strands of 12 and 12 strands of 2? What is that?

@bi
duh

[bistander]

Huh?

...
2 strands of 12 in series will get you speed up under load at a reduced speed of the rotor from 12 strands of two in series. ...

2 strands of 12 and 12 strands of 2? What is that?

@bi
duh

What is it? .... Support of my contention, isn't it? How do you read it? @BM

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for the informative video, good and simple way to explain it.

Been winding today, up to 9 strands, it takes around 15 minutes to add a new strand to the multistrand coil, now that I've ironed out the bugs.

At 9 strands, it is 23 ounces of copper, so 24 strands, will be around 60 ounces.

peace love light

[BroMikey]

Yes Turion, l read that before. He speaks of only bifilar winding, and the standard monofilar. He says nothing about, 3, 4, 5, ... multi beyond 2, the bifilar. My question is: where, or why use multi, or more than 2, bifilar? It does not appear N. Tesla teaches that.

Regards,

bi

................................. going "multi", more than 2 which is bifilar, is counterproductive, or in other words, yields less energy storage in capacitance than a bifilar coil of equivalent turns and resistance.

Regards,

bi

If you put 12 wires in series and then 12 more wires in series you have 2 sets of 12
As opposed to putting two wires in series and then two more in series and then two more so you end up with 12 sets of 2 wires coming off the coil
2 of 12 or 12 of 2.

Sounds like my old chemistry teacher, can't be done, don't do it.
To late we done did it and it does work and it does do what Tesla said
it would do. Tesla gave us a lenz free generator coils and all people
can do is say @ DUH

[BroMikey]

Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for the informative video, good and simple way to explain it.

Been winding today, up to 9 strands, it takes around 15 minutes to add a new strand to the multistrand coil, now that I've ironed out the bugs.

At 9 strands, it is 23 ounces of copper, so 24 strands, will be around 60 ounces.

peace love light

That is the exact weight of my 29awg coil of 24 strands and core, 60oz.

[bistander]

Not what I said

If you wind a coil with 24 strands in parallel. (Which bi says not to do as additional wires in parallel in excess of two do nothing according to him)

If you put 12 wires in series and then 12 more wires in series you have 2 sets of 12
As opposed to putting two wires in series and then two more in series and then two more so you end up with 12 sets of 2 wires coming off the coil
2 of 12 or 12 of 2.
NEITHER supports bi’s Contention that more than two wires in parallel is the best you can get.

I have built the coils. I have tested them. I have given my recommendations. If you want to do it your way bi, you go right ahead. I don’t care.

Quoting you:
"Which bi says not to do as additional wires in parallel in excess of two do nothing according to him"
I never said that.

Actually neither case is the Tesla bifilar winding which will yield the highest capacitive reactance. Following Tesla's teaching, you must layer wind the two wires adjacent to each other and then connect the two wires in series such the potential difference between adjacent turns is one half of the total coil voltage. When you use multiple strands (like 24 for example), you lose the ability to ensure that maximum potential difference between adjacent turns and also decrease the effective capacitor plate area while increasing the dielectric length, all of which decrease the capacitance and/or capacitive reactance. Then when you connect in trifilar, quadfilar, or higher multifilar arrangement you further decrease the capacitive reactance due to voltage squared relationship which Tesla mentioned in that quote from his patent.

If you want the highest intrinsic capacitance in the coil, bifilar is it. I have no use for such a coil so am not interested in building one. I just see folks going to a lot of effort and expense for the wrong reasons. That's why I inquired if Tesla ever mentioned multifilar or where you came up with the idea. Could it be another case where you know because it is right in front of you like the 6-cell battery?

I'm just going from a read of Tesla's patent and past study/experimentation with capacitors. I've also done a lot with coils however needed to avoid capacitance in those applications. Most were DC or low frequency anyway.

Regards,

bi

[Pot head]

Yeah!!

Great stuff for me to learn!
My question is: How to keep magnets from flying away?
If your rotor is within a certain size range, you can shrink wrap it and use several layers if needed; always needed.
Look at my little rotor and tell yourself it will be needed.

[BroMikey]

Actually neither case is the Tesla bifilar winding which will yield the highest capacitive reactance. Wrong again


Following Tesla's teaching, You don't so why say that you do?

you must layer wind the two wires adjacent to each other and then connect the two wires in series such the potential difference between adjacent turns
Yer kidding?




If you want the highest intrinsic capacitance in the coil, bifilar is it. I have no use for such a coil so am not interested in building one.

I'm just going from a read of Tesla's patent In your twisted slant


and past study/experimentation with capacitors.

I've also done a lot with coils Yeah you wind in the box what yer told



bi

Can't try it, won't try it, don't care about it however as the final aurthority
just ramble on in an effort to sound like a big wheel know it all.



Coils composed of independent strands or conductors wound side by side and connected in series are not in themselves new, and I do not regard a more detailed description of the same necessary.

In carrying out my invention it is to be observed that certain facts are well understood by those skilled in the art, viz.: the relations of capacity, self-induction, and the frequency and potential difference of the current. What capacity, therefore, in any given case it is desirable to obtain and what special winding will secure it, are readily determinable from the other factors which are known.


Write it on your forehead Bu

[Pot head]

Pot Head
Are your magnets going to be on edge of yourrotir or the face of yourrotir?

Thin enough and multiple layers add strength.

[alexelectric]

Bu,
The goal is to build a coil that will do what I say it will do and still act as a generator coil. What I have shown will do that and is within the skill level of everyone here to build and get to work. Just wind it. Don’t worry about all the wires being in parallel. It will still work. You have no use for that kind of coil and I have no use for you, so all is well.

I am at Tap plastics purchasing the needed base plate to put my generator back together. It tells you how much stuff I have in my shed, shop and garage at my old house that I cannot find a piece of plastic 14” x 28”x 1” thick and have to spend $80 to get a new one plus a three hour round trip.

I have made more progress than expected this week on my remodel projects and have maybe one more day of actual hard work before the plumber comes next Wednesday, so will probably have time to get the generator mostly assembled this weekend. Looking forward to that. Still have four more coils to wind though, and NOT looking forward to that. But I can fire it up without ALL the coils in place and easily prove more out than in. At least to the only person that matters, which is my wife. And she has already seen it many times.

we hope that your goal will soon be completed, and thank you for all your comments and experiences, where I learn and guide me to better understand the generator's construction.
and I also follow with attention and study the comments of other colleagues, either for or against, you also learn from differences, greetings to all