Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

[BroMikey]

Each coil we add will increase the input by 100 watts as well as increase the output by 100 watts. (maintaining unity) So with 10 coils we would have 1000 watts input to achieve an output of 1000 watts ( unity ).

Except you forgot one thing. I guess you didn't read the details. When a coil
to generate is installed on the generator head (EACH TIME) the drive input
will either go a tiny bit lower or stay the same. Did you forget?

Now let's try this again ( I know it is a brain fry) drive input will stay the
same if the generator uses magnetic neutralization, even at start up.

Did everyone hear that? No, I guess not, let me try once more. If I wanted
to demonstrate these facts I would use a Ferris wheel size project. Who
do we know did that?

Okay we all know3 that a 10-12 foot wheel has plenty of room all around
it, right? Let's say that the Ferris wheel can turn at 3000 rpm's(WOW)

Now we know from math equations that pie= 3.14 X Dia = circumference
so 12' X 3.14 = over 37 feet of running space to put coils. Now the coils
are bigger (Or smaller on your machine) so we would not know how much
a coil could produce without a test. Let's say we decided to populate the
wheel or rotor by putting a magnet every foot. With a foot to work with
we are going to need a pretty big magnet, let's say a 6" X 6" round magnet
whose pull force is hundreds of pounds each. But what do we care, once
the opposition magnets are in place it is as if no rotor to core cogging
existed, which it doesn't.

So now you have the picture ( I HOPE ) 37 huge magnets and no opposing
magnetic forces when the wheel is spun up by hand. Free as the breeze
as they say. Imagine the coils on this rig. Core material 6" dia and say
10" log so we can get our cooling in there

What's next is we must turn the rotor with the huge weights (magnets)
Let's say just for fun that to turn the rotor the drive input came out to
6,000watts. How much will a coil put out? Let's say a coil can put out
24 amps @ 130vac =over 3000watts. This coil is huge and wire goes
around a 6" core.

Remember the drive input never changes, right? Did you forget? Well
it don't change. So 2 coils you are at the break even point. How about
adding 10 more and calling it good? A total of 12 coils, can you get
a visual of this generator head?

How much power is left over? I get 10 X 3000w = ? How much?

You homies keep getting the answers wrong and flunkin test are going
to be expelled. You know what a flunky is?

[bistander]

You know what a flunky is?

Do now. Mach1.6 at the rim.

[dragon]

Thanks Turion for your "civil" answer to my questions although I still remain skeptical as to the power required by each added coil to the system. We are basically talking about 2 different functions each dealing with different rules - the magnetic lock caused by the spaced cores and the Lenz forces created by the current flow in the coils at speed.

Oh, and Mikey... There's really no need to impress me with your ignorance... I was already impressed from past posts... in the future if you show a little respect I will reciprocate with respect.

[BroMikey]

....the magnetic lock caused by the spaced cores


Oh, and Mikey... There's really no need to impress me with your ignorance... I was already impressed from past posts... in the future if you show a little respect I will reciprocate with respect.

@Dragon
It's just me using the shock treatment. Dude there are no spaced core
strategy used here. That is the Muller motor that does that. If we were
using properly spaced cores you would still have lots of drag without
using Muller's coils and circuits.

No offense Dragon

However we can't keep mixing up apples and oranges in the details. A
little misinformation in the lump spoils the whole thing. Please keep
a strict eye on the specific layout and I won't feel the need to continual
correct you.

It is my desire that you understand. Is it yours?

Best way to grasp this easily is buy some refrigerator magnets that
are weak and cheap, then use a lazy Susan from the kitchen that
is used to spin around in a corner cupboard so you can get the cups
behind.

Now you have a spinning wheel and hot glue the magnets on that.
This will get you to magnetic cancellation by following instruction.
Very very simple setup.

First (Like Mad Mack taught) measure the pull force it takes to over
come the lock using 1 magnet on the spinning wheel to a bolt or
something iron. This is the first step.

Repeat this step again using a repulsing magnet on the opposition
side of the 2 rotor magnets to help break the magnetic lock.

Now you have your answer.

The taunt is all in fun to see whats inside.

God Bless you Dragon.

[BroMikey]

I’ll have to admit I was surprised when Sky
showed his results.

Not me, Sky is using the same dia magnet on the repulsion side as the rotor magnets.
He may need a field that is more narrow.

I did the same test here using the MadMack setup and the wrong
magnet on the repulsion side slowed my rotor down in some cases

What I want to know is why are the builders so quiet.

[dragon]

@Dragon
It's just me using the shock treatment. Dude there are no spaced core
strategy used here. That is the Muller motor that does that. If we were
using properly spaced cores you would still have lots of drag without
using Muller's coils and circuits.

No offense Dragon

However we can't keep mixing up apples and oranges in the details. A
little misinformation in the lump spoils the whole thing. Please keep
a strict eye on the specific layout and I won't feel the need to continual
correct you.

It is my desire that you understand. Is it yours?

Best way to grasp this easily is buy some refrigerator magnets that
are weak and cheap, then use a lazy Susan from the kitchen that
is used to spin around in a corner cupboard so you can get the cups
behind.

Now you have a spinning wheel and hot glue the magnets on that.
This will get you to magnetic cancellation by following instruction.
Very very simple setup.

First (Like Mad Mack taught) measure the pull force it takes to over
come the lock using 1 magnet on the spinning wheel to a bolt or
something iron. This is the first step.

Repeat this step again using a repulsing magnet on the opposition
side of the 2 rotor magnets to help break the magnetic lock.

Now you have your answer.

The taunt is all in fun to see whats inside.

God Bless you Dragon.

Thank you, we should be able to have a reasonable conversation even if we disagree on different points.

I'm well aware of the forces involved, I've been building these machines for a few decades now. I have a large unit that will rip a 60 lb flywheel right out of your hands and uses custom made N52 neos. I used to sell a 3 phase radial air core alternator kit that would produce 500 watts and fit in the palm of your hand. Anyway, neither here nor there...

I believe your thinking of something a little different when I made the statement of spaced cores. I'm simply saying that because there is a gap between each of the coil cores there will be a significant cog moving from one to the next. As the cores are moved closer together this becomes less of a problem. An example shown in the generator below of one I built a few years back to remove or lower the Lenz effect. The coils and magnets in this case were stationary and only the pole pieces were moved. Shorting the coils had no effect on the torque required to rotate the rotor. Although a different design it's very similar to what Turion is doing. ( and, no, it is not overunity just very efficient )

The other comment I made about the neutralizing magnets after the coil started generating power... the best way I could explain it would be to look at Fig 9 on the link that Turion posted... When there is no load on the coils (44) the polarities shown are canceling each other, however, when the coils are loaded the core's (50) will reverse polarity as the current increases. Now you have 2 forces acting against the prime mover. With the cores side by side the start up and running torque is minimal.

Simply suggestions based on what I've found "on the bench".

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for sharing all the information here, even if you already did elsewhere, it is appreciated.
Like was said, the simple one core test, can hardly be conclusive.
Have not even tried tweaking the setup further yet, as bromikey says, this setup may not be ideal at the moment, to show the magnet to core neutralization effect properly.

Will work on tweaking the magnet neutralizing method at some point, though the next step, maybe tomorrow, will be to get the coil/core in place and run some tests.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

..I've been building these machines for a few decades now. I have a
large unit that will rip a 60 lb flywheel right out of your hands and uses custom made N52 neos. I used to sell a 3 phase radial air core
alternator kit that would produce 500 watts and fit in the palm of
your hand.

Anyway, neither here nor there...

An example shown in the generator below of one I built a few years back
to remove or lower the Lenz effect.

Although a different design it's very similar to what Turion is doing. ( and, no, it is not overunity just very efficient )

With the cores side by side the start up and running torque is minimal.

Simply suggestions based on what I've found "on the bench".

Anyway, neither here nor there...? Are you kidding? I didn't know all
that, you are an awesome builder. Glad to see you working on lower
lenz.

Anyway, neither here nor there...? That is what I came for, keep blowing
your horn like that, it's what I love to hear.Yours is a bit different as
you say but this is how we combine ideas to further the work.

[BroMikey]

.... next step, maybe tomorrow, will be to get the coil/core in place and run some tests.
peace love light

GO SKY!!!!, I'm counting on you.

[lotec]

Hi Dragon.

Simply suggestions based on what I've found "on the bench".

You make some interesting points.

I hope you don't mind me asking but that looks like a nice piece of hardware to work with. Only if you can spare the time.

The hardware with the windings, i'm assuming it's the stator. What is it off. or is it custom built? How are the individual cores attached to the rim piece, or how do you get them off for winding? And how are the magnets attached to the rotor. I'm probably being a nusence, and some tricks of the trade are hard earnt, but if your feeling generous that would be cool to. Not too much detail required. I will get the gist.

regards

Edit... Good luck SkyWatcher, I'm hoping you can get good juice out of that coil.

[dragon]

Hi Dragon.



You make some interesting points.

I hope you don't mind me asking but that looks like a nice piece of hardware to work with. Only if you can spare the time.

The hardware with the windings, i'm assuming it's the stator. What is it off. or is it custom built? How are the individual cores attached to the rim piece, or how do you get them off for winding? And how are the magnets attached to the rotor. I'm probably being a nusence, and some tricks of the trade are hard earnt, but if your feeling generous that would be cool to. Not too much detail required. I will get the gist.

regards

Edit... Good luck SkyWatcher, I'm hoping you can get good juice out of that coil.

This is Sky's thread so I'll keep it brief... This project was a quick and simple conversion to prove a point. The core is from a standard box fan with all the wires cut off and rewound for the testing I wanted to do. The center is a machined steel core ( machined for the bearings and mounting) mounted to the backing plate. The rotor was machined from plastic with the iron pole pieces glued in place. The pole pieces direct the flux through the core as it rotated. Even though it worked very well and it was very efficient I didn't consider the added efficiency difference over a standard alternator to be great enough to pursue. I later built a large conversion using a donor 3kw gen head which worked ok but again the efficiency gain wasn't much over the standard off the shelf units so I moved on to other ideas and thoughts of how to increase the efficiency in other ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYLFIUOqT90

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, made a few tests today.
Each power channel gives around 75 volts ac, coil open circuit.
Each 13 strand channel is around 31 ohms.
Tested standard 120vac, 6 watt led bulb on one power channel and it lighted to a decent brightness and the watts did increase from the 145 watt no load input.
Tested a 10 ohm resistor load on one channel and watts did not increase, maybe slightly dropping.
Though measured volts over the 10 ohm resistor showed only .89 volts ac.

Not sure what to make of this so far, though think the rpm needs to be increased maybe.
Can also change the rotor magnet polarities, back to north-south-north-south, as the magnets are not glued into position, they're only press fit and magnets attracting each other, that are holding the magnets in the rotor, seems ok so far.
Thoughts appreciated.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

Each power channel gives around 75 volts ac, coil open circuit.
Each 13 strand channel is around 31 ohms.
Tested standard 120vac, 6 watt led bulb on one power channel and it lighted to a decent brightness and the watts did increase from the 145 watt no load input.
Tested a 10 ohm resistor load on one channel and watts did not increase, maybe slightly dropping.
Though measured volts over the 10 ohm resistor showed only .89 volts ac.

Not sure what to make of this so far.....................

Yes I think this is right, increased RPM's to compensate for small rotor
dia that translates to lower speeds of which the magnet passes the core
material. This fact makes me want to change my 6" rotor build before
it is completed to a 10-12" rotor but using the same weaker magnets.

However I am going to try it but being prepared to add more feet of wire
(More Strands) to make up for the slow speeds for each channel. This is
why I have 3600 feet of #25awg on my coil.

My suggestion is to keep on experimenting with this small setup til you
have maximized the output. This means getting 100volts and enough
mili-amps to power up a load while seeing to it that no increase to drive
power takes place.

Magnet to core gap

Rpm increase

Added number of strands.

This is where you find the limits of your mechanical contrivance. Tight
gaps against (Nearly) very strong magnets are harder to build but with
an opposing magnet to do away with all of the cogging who cares, right?

It is under these circumstances that you produce much more power.

Keep at it you will learn much from your machine. Spend an equal
amount of time testing as it took you to build it.

Have you tried 15, 16, 17...........24 strands...........26 strands?

Time to party.

[bistander]

Nice tests

Hi all, made a few tests today.
Each power channel gives around 75 volts ac, coil open circuit.
Each 13 strand channel is around 31 ohms.
Tested standard 120vac, 6 watt led bulb on one power channel and it lighted to a decent brightness and the watts did increase from the 145 watt no load input.
Tested a 10 ohm resistor load on one channel and watts did not increase, maybe slightly dropping.
Though measured volts over the 10 ohm resistor showed only .89 volts ac.
...

Hi Sky,

Nicely done. I am curious to see tests with coil, OC and loaded, with and without the magnetic neutralization in place. Also for your own benefit, try running the power channels in parallel. Standard theory says maximum power transfer occurs when load impedance is equal to the coil impedance. Also note that temperature rise will increase coil resistance, significantly.

Thanks,

bi

Ref. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxi...ansfer_theorem

[BroMikey]

Standard theory says maximum power transfer occurs when load impedance is equal to the coil impedance. Also note that temperature rise will increase coil resistance, significantly.

Wrong thinking and wrong direction as per the cloudy usual.
Shorter wire, more power per mass, old rule. Old thinking, bad
suggestion as always.Max drag like Bi