Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

[SkyWatcher]

Hi alexelectric, not clear on what you're asking.
Though if you mean, am I looking for just lenz neutral or speed up, lenz neutral would be fine at this point.

That's why I went up in rpm's, to see if I could reach neutral at least.

Though I could go higher in rpm, I don't want to destroy that rotor.
I want to see if I can get this rotor to at least lenz neutral, with more reasonable rpm's.
peace love light

[alexelectric]

Hi alexelectric, not clear on what you're asking.
Though if you mean, am I looking for just lenz neutral or speed up, lenz neutral would be fine at this point.

That's why I went up in rpm's, to see if I could reach neutral at least.

Though I could go higher in rpm, I don't want to destroy that rotor.
I want to see if I can get this rotor to at least lenz neutral, with more reasonable rpm's.
peace love light

ok, that you achieve your goal, you have worked a lot on this project

[alexelectric]

I never got hit with a flying magnet, but one (or more) went through the face of my desktop computer and out the back. Another went through my keyboard and I am still running across letters from that. They are NOTHING to play with and you could loose teeth or an eye, so be dang careful. I work behind a “blast shield” to prevent personal damage.

very good advice, in my case in two projects, the magnet flew out, hit a refrigerator that made a hole, luckily I was on the side

[alexelectric]

from what I understand, it seems the neutralization of lenz seems to be because of resonance?..
would the effect show on a tank circuit instead?..

frequency of the rotor can be determined by (rpm/60s)*number of magnets
and the frequency in the coil can be calculated via L and C.

say a rotor that can turn to 1800 rpm with 8 magnets would be 240hz
a matching coil and cap would be 4.7uF and 93mH coil.

Just a wild thought..

yes, the frequency in a tank circuit L, C, passes the frequency that enters resonation with the circuit.
this process is the one used in the radio, when you tune in a station, it has a propagation frequency, in tuner circuit of the radio receiver, a variable capacitor moves, which is connected in parallel to a coil, it enters resonance or tuning , and lets pass the corresponding frequency.

[ricards]

yes, the frequency in a tank circuit L, C, passes the frequency that enters resonation with the circuit.
this process is the one used in the radio, when you tune in a station, it has a propagation frequency, in tuner circuit of the radio receiver, a variable capacitor moves, which is connected in parallel to a coil, it enters resonance or tuning , and lets pass the corresponding frequency.

Hi Alex,

No, my question is no way related to radio, I meant the actual frequency of the passing magnets in the rotor, relative to your coil.
this means tuning is the other way around, you set your coil place a capacitor in parallel to make a tank circuit, and adjust your RPM/magnets to that tank circuit's frequency.

[alexelectric]

Hi Alex,

No, my question is no way related to radio, I meant the actual frequency of the passing magnets in the rotor, relative to your coil.
this means tuning is the other way around, you set your coil place a capacitor in parallel to make a tank circuit, and adjust your RPM/magnets to that tank circuit's frequency.

if ricards, if I understood the first comment, the speed with which passes the magnets, which can come into resonance with the coil, and make the tank circuit with a capacitor in parallel.

what I described of the radio communication was an addition to the oscillating and resonant circuits.

The detail is that here, I think that the capacitor is not put in parallel, if not adding the connections of the coil to have different inductances, at different frequencies (rotation of the magnets), and the capacitance takes advantage of the same that form the coil

There are different ways to make the resonant circuits, I have seen projects of motors that coils that try to take advantage of the capacitance of the coil, etc,
well there's a lot to keep experimenting
welcome the comments everything helps to understand and learn,
Thank you

[SkyWatcher]

Partial Success Update

Hi all, I'm having partial success, got the extended core put back together and it is lenz neutral, it seems, at just about any rpm when short circuited.
However, when I load the generator coil with a 6 watt non-modified led bulb, lenz slow down is observed.
Though I have not yet cranked up the rpm's to high levels, need to put the shield back in place later and try that also.
Though we are obviously close, maybe a certain type of load will be lenz neutral at this point, compared to the led bulb's inner circuitry.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

Great to see someone going out on a limb for a change. Nice
setup and excellent persistence.

Let me repeat that when not much magnetic flux reached the cores
my speed up was so tiny I could barely read it. However with tight gaps
and super powerful cogging my speed up soared to record levels using the
same magnets, using the same rotor, using the same coil, using the same
running and start up RPM's. Everything was the same except for the
start up magnetic cogging which is enormous. This also permitted me
to generator a decent amount of power where with big gaps little
to nothing.

You always go out on a limb, perfect choice for the new hardware.

PS you can connect two 40ft coils up to make 80ft coils (Not series)
Maybe 40ft is too short for your size rotor.

Then series connect 80ft coils.

No one has ever tried this.

[SkyWatcher]

Hi bromikey, thanks for the positive, encouraging words and helpful information as always.

Yes, I think you are correct, not enough flux in this 3/4" diameter, bailing wire core.
In the past, with those bolt core experiments, I was using 1/2" diameter bolts and a rotor with 6 stacked of these 1" diameter by 1/8" thick magnets, for 3/4" thickness magnets.

Also, I did connect an amp meter earlier today, to see if the amps were increasing when short circuited, zero increase at very low rpm's.

Yup, I thought about the same thing, the 80 foot coil idea.
Though as I thought about it, isn't that exactly how it is wired now, it's one long series coil wire.
Meaning, I don't think we can get 80 foot continuous coils, only a 40 foot coil that is connected back to the start of another coil strand, Nikola Tesla style.

Unless I'm not imagining this in my minds eye correctly, let me know what you think.

Otherwise, I'm going to think about what to do next, will probably do a higher speed run tomorrow, when I'm rested more.

Also, do you think I should post a video showing my progress so far, of how it is lenz neutral, when short circuited, would that be of value to you or anyone.
peace love light

[lorinrandone]

Hi SkyWatcher. Hi everybody

My name is cristian alba. I am following your work and I have achieved a first step as you will see in the video that I will provide below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOFtSXnfD5o
I have achieved a significant increase in rotor speed with a relevant current drop. When you put a load on it, things change and the law of lenz is present. If you do not mind, could you indicate what I am doing wrong?
I have to mention that I used two coils of a washing machine drain pump connected in bucking coil.
Thank you. cristian alba

[SkyWatcher]

Hi lorinrandone, thanks for the reply and sharing your work.
Not sure how that coil is wired, if it is bucking mode, then I'm also not sure what results you might get, even if you have all the parameters close enough to get speed up under a load of some kind.

What I can say, you are close to speed up under a load, just as I am.

There is a window of opportunity, the variables have to be close enough to get lenz neutral or speed up under load.

This is my current thinking on the matter.
When the coil is short circuited, that takes the longest to charge the coil that way, as that is the greatest amp load on the coil.
However, as we add resistances (loads) across the coil, it takes less time for the coil to charge and that sends a magnetic flux wave into the oncoming rotor magnet and slows it down.
Whereas, with the short circuit, that magnetic flux wave coming through the core, does not get to the rotor magnet in time to push back against it, instead, it repels it away, just as you are observing and showing.
Your rotor must have a decent rpm I assume to be doing that, now it's just a matter of getting the variables or capacitance of coil higher, to allow a load which speeds up the charging time of the coil, to cause lenz neutral or speed up under load.
Though like I said, I'm not sure about that bucking coil, if you will get the same results as bromikey, turion, etc.
peace love light

Edit: just want to clarify more, my thoughts.
The shorted coil gives the highest magnetic flux into the core.
Though that is like shorting a capacitor, then remove the short and it takes much more time for that empty capacitor to charge up.
That is giving a very nice delay to the magnetic wave, which normally would push against the incoming rotor magnet.
When we place resistances (loads) across the generator coil, then it's like charging a capacitor that is half full, that takes much less time to do so,
and is why we then need much higher rpm's or a proper multifilar coil with more capacitance to cause a greater phase delay, or an even greater length
core extension than what I have done.

[BroMikey]

Hi bromikey,
Yes, I think you are correct, not enough flux in this 3/4" diameter, bailing wire core.
In the past, with those bolt core experiments, I was using 1/2" diameter bolts and a rotor with 6 stacked of these 1" diameter by 1/8" thick magnets, for 3/4" thickness magnets.

Meaning, I don't think we can get 80 foot continuous coils,..............

Just seems like there must be other ways to connect all those wires
but I have not tried them. I saw a post somewhere of various connection
schemes. maybe bucking?????

Good observation about the magnets you use to use and the core. The
core could be easily replaced with a 3/4" square block off the bottom
end of a microwave transformer (MOT) this is what I use for now.

I have watched you for years now and your favorite position is out on
a limb sawing, true experimenter/inventor mind set.

Happy hunting.

yes the zero lenz effects already achieved on your end is enough to send
all the yuppies buzzing "Can't be done" to late


.................................................. ..

[lorinrandone]

Hi lorinrandone, thanks for the reply and sharing your work.
Not sure how that coil is wired, if it is bucking mode, then I'm also not sure what results you might get, even if you have all the parameters close enough to get speed up under a load of some kind.

What I can say, you are close to speed up under a load, just as I am.

There is a window of opportunity, the variables have to be close enough to get lenz neutral or speed up under load.

This is my current thinking on the matter.
When the coil is short circuited, that takes the longest to charge the coil that way, as that is the greatest amp load on the coil.
However, as we add resistances (loads) across the coil, it takes less time for the coil to charge and that sends a magnetic flux wave into the oncoming rotor magnet and slows it down.
Whereas, with the short circuit, that magnetic flux wave coming through the core, does not get to the rotor magnet in time to push back against it, instead, it repels it away, just as you are observing and showing.
Your rotor must have a decent rpm I assume to be doing that, now it's just a matter of getting the variables or capacitance of coil higher, to allow a load which speeds up the charging time of the coil, to cause lenz neutral or speed up under load.
Though like I said, I'm not sure about that bucking coil, if you will get the same results as bromikey, turion, etc.
peace love light

Edit: just want to clarify more, my thoughts.
The shorted coil gives the highest magnetic flux into the core.
Though that is like shorting a capacitor, then remove the short and it takes much more time for that empty capacitor to charge up.
That is giving a very nice delay to the magnetic wave, which normally would push against the incoming rotor magnet.
When we place resistances (loads) across the generator coil, then it's like charging a capacitor that is half full, that takes much less time to do so,
and is why we then need much higher rpm's or a proper multifilar coil with more capacitance to cause a greater phase delay, or an even greater length
core extension than what I have done.

SkyWatcher
thank you for your relevant opinions. I'm going to put more data about it.
As I said in the previous post, the coils are original drain pump washer and come wound with 0.45mm thread (I do not know how many turns open each). I have just turned one of them to connect as opposed , then I came up with the idea of making a kind of squirrel cage through the holes a few brass spuds that also serves to hold the core. I have also observed that fastening with iron screws, I do not get the same effect. I do not know, maybe it is an illusion. It is also true that I do not have much experience with this type of things, maybe Turion with his experience, could clarify this topic.
Thank you. cristian alba

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, Hi turion, thanks for sharing that information.
Yes, I thought about that also, the timing.
Maybe my high resistance series coils are not charging quickly with a load added, maybe the coil is charging too slowly and charging or filling the coil too late and causing a slow down with load.
Hmm, more to ponder and more experiments needed.
peace love light

[lorinrandone]

I think a couple things are worth repeating so if you already know all this, skip to the next post:
1. Speed up under load is an interaction between a single magnet on the rotor and the coil. More magnets means more of these events per rotation but more magnets will NOT cause the event to happen at the same rpm as you were turning fewer magnets if it wasn’t already happening at that rpm.

2. The MORE you speed up under load the LESS your coil produces as a generator coil so the perfect coil does not speed up or slow down.

3. Speed up under load is a matter of capacitance so if you connect a load with high capacitance you are increasing the capacitance if your coil.

4. It is also a matter of timing. Most coils fill as the rotor magnet approaches, causing a field that repels the approaching magnet. The correct coil fills just as the rotor magnet reaches top dead center, pushing it away in the direction of rotation. You can also fill TOO LATE, after the magnet has passed.

5. A capacitor connected to ANY coil in series will increase its capacitance. But realize the SIZE of the cap is going to affect when the event happens just as the size of the coil does.

6. Every coil will speed up under load at the correct frequency,

Those pump motor coils don’t have enough capacitance for the frequency (speed) your rotor is traveling. If you put several in series and the rotor magnets were hitting only one at that moment in time, you might see speed up under load. It depends on your rpm. The effect you are seeing with the bucking coils is not the same effect you get with the correct high capacitance coils. You will NOT get the effect without multiple strands wound in parallel and connected in series. Not unless you use a capacitor in series or have a HUGE increase in rpm.

Turion
Thank you. I do not know if I could thank you otherwise for the accuracy and relevance of the given explanation.
My best regard. cristian alba