Multifilar Generator Coil - Lenz delay Experiments

[BroMikey]

My vertical rotors do NOT need magnets
“long enough to come out both sides.” ..........

Be careful with the advice you give if you haven’t built a working
machine.

Common sense teaches that to properly build a rotor with magnets
shielding / holders, magnet holders MUST be used. I have spoken till
I am blue in the face about common sense/practical mechanical.

I will hold back no punches. THANE HEINZ? Do you acknowledge his
work? Do you see his rotors? Do you read patents concerning power
generation for marine installations? We if you did like I am seeing
you would know that shielding / holders limit the magnetic field from
one pole overlapping the next pole.

Do I need to draw a picture of a rotor with magnets on it doing a
field visual of overlapping magnetism? Do I? You know me, I will.

I am discussing refinement and practical applications not proof of
concept. I want it to run so it does not tear itself to ribbons or burn
up with heat.

Magnets having shielding / holders are mounted with special press fit
rubberized epoxy formulas. The holder centralizes the magnet inside.

In other words my magnets on my bench for my project show that the
shielding/covers/holder keep the magnet from coming out, they are held
by the field itself. The magnet keeps itself to a degree.

Yes I have it on my bench and no I am not talking speculation. It might
help if your read my posts in your busy day. Anyway I am warned now
about giving advice.

Another thing (MY OPINION) you run 3000rpm's using plastic rotors you
are going to be killed eventually or kill someone with a magnet. This is
not a game of who is better this is about common sense staying in
one piece.

Okay lets take it from the top.

#1 All commercially grown rotors use some form of a metallic substance
to ensure structural integrity for tolerance

#2 Magnets not only need holders to help retain their position but
the same is a magnetic shield limiting magnetic interference. Shields
push the field out front where the core is not permitting the field to
reach over several inches to the adjacent pole not intended to be
engaged.

I have stressed this before, common mechanical sense, probably way
over the heads of those not considering. Look at Thane Heinz rotors.

Reject my offering go ahead, to your own peril.

Now does anyone what a suggestion how to hold magnets more tightly?
I guess not.



Many other pictures of this rotor are on this site put here by one of
Thanes past machinists. These many pictures show shielding cylinders
around the magnets.

I have shields and I use metal rotor, I have them here on my bench.
Yes they work just as well as plastic. I have plastic rotors on my bench.

So my experience is what i am speaking about. Personally I think you
have to be crazy to run a plastic rotor up to 3000rpm - 4000rpm
Insane.

Plastic cracks, plastic can not stand the pounding, plastic can not
take the vibration. Plastic is a joke and unsuitable for long term
practical use in high quality machines.

The shielding eliminates the problems where a metal rotor bleeds of flux.

No commercially available electric car motors use plastic rotors and
rightfully so. Electric motor engineering is not totally without merit.

Thank you for your time. You better listen to me.

[BroMikey]

When two North magnets are put on a rotor the
two fields don’t “overlap.” A “virtual south” is created between the two.

You are right, forgot that one and have little knowledge. All north's?
Okay. I'll have to think about that a while.

The thing about the shields is that counterbalancing magnets and rotor
magnet might reach over a 3" span while magnet to core interact at close proximity say 1" range and even closer if shields are used.. In order to
lower the drive input magnets to magnets and magnets to core material
must be equal, easy to say and hard to do.

Controlling stray fields is done with shielding even with all north's you
want separation and the virtual south should still be there.

If you have many magnets around a rotor LIKE THANE DOES you have
magnets that are as close as 1/4" apart, without a shield your rotor
will fail. Thanks for being so understanding.

I thought aluminum was bad? Well I heard that on youtube where
someone showed that it just didn't work. Do you have any aluminum
rotors yet?

You need help to perfect your system, too bad everyone has jumped
ship and the burden now falls on you. Everyone is weak in one area or
the other so we need to work together. Where is the help?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi turion, thanks for the offer and sharing the video, though I need to build this myself, so I can learn more and gain more experience.

I think I will design the rotor like the single plastic one you showed, with the material left between the 2 magnets, so they help keep each other in.

Also, could always put a thin, but strong enough lexan laminate over the entire side of each rotor and secure with screws, to help retain the magnets.

Yes, I realize, especially now that I've started recovering my epoxied neo magnets from a previous rotor project, how brittle epoxy is and under stress, not a good idea.

Good thing those magnet stacks were attached to a ferromagnetic rod, or they probably would have let loose.

So I'm thankful you guys are pointing these things out.
peace love light

[BroMikey]

So everyone understands, I am not talking about sticking a magnet
on the side of a pop bottle with epoxy. Look at how it's done
mechanically first and know that the epoxy does very little yet it is
there. Not just any type you decide to try, it is special stuff, use it.

Keep in mind these rotor run 5000-6000rpms, the big pic is a for a
motorcycle generator. Press fit epoxied but that doesn't mean the
epoxy is the only thing holding it. The magnet holds itself in also.

https://thumpertalk.com/uploads/monthly_03_2016/post-463607-0-82547500-1457076285.jpg

https://thumpertalk.com/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah12/gsuarezlecuona/Husqvarna%2520TE610e%25201998/IMG_20150408_193936_zpsum8imq1a.jpg&key=5b6b3727f9 b118f8dfe6ba14db2d17e6e101d45a59b918f16777a0e4323e 11db

[BroMikey]

Here are a few more examples. Think about it? Eventually you will
understand why that this is the way it is done in factories today.

Generator rotors with strong magnets. Old news.




Yamaha



https://x.cloudsdata.net/6f/images/products/large/5c6c2208ca2ec_IMG20190219163154.jpg

Buy one already made

https://unitedexpressdist.3dcartstores.com/150cc-125cc-Scooter-Moped-Magneto-Flywheel-Stator-GY6-8-Magnet-152QMI_p_2105.html

God awful vibration and super RPM's epoxied magnets.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6HBBQWjT0Os/maxresdefault.jpg

[BroMikey]

The whole purpose of this thread was to
discuss the kind of coils that ALLOW you to run your generator

If you have a one inch diameter magnet it takes a specific amount of
time to pass the coil core at a given rpm. But what if the magnet is
1/4 wide by 1”

I’ll give you a hint. It speeds up at a LOWER rpm. I would not be
surprised to see that we could get the rpm down around 1,000 and
the sane volts and amps out of a coil.

Does the core size stay the same in this quiz? Say a 3/4" core used for
both magnets? If I knew that then I could look more at duration.

Note: it took you 10 yrs to develop this work, in another 10 maybe you
will have a new tech. Be realistic plz

[SkyWatcher]

Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing the information.

Hi turion, thanks for sharing.
I see what you mean, the narrow magnet would reach the center of the core (TDC) ,much quicker for the same rpm, or I mean it has less distance to travel to TDC once the core interaction starts.
Of course, that would not give a good power sweep of the coil, without the magnet height, then again, with a bumped out core, it might not matter as much.
Sounds like you've built it and tested it, would like to see pics of that.
I don't have any small diameter neo's on hand, just the 1" diameter, though I could get 5/16" or 7/16" diameter disc neo's.
peace love light

Edit: Also, I created this thread for experiments, to see if I could get the true effect and I have.
Not for how low can we go, that was bromikey's ideas, which are fine.
Now I would like to try and make some useful juice and keep the rpm's lower if possible.

[Pot head]

Hi bromikey, thanks for sharing the information.

Hi turion, thanks for sharing.
I see what you mean, the narrow magnet would reach the center of the core (TDC) ,much quicker for the same rpm, or I mean it has less distance to travel to TDC once the core interaction starts.
Of course, that would not give a good power sweep of the coil, without the magnet height, then again, with a bumped out core, it might not matter as much.
Sounds like you've built it and tested it, would like to see pics of that.
I don't have any small diameter neo's on hand, just the 1" diameter, though I could get 5/16" or 7/16" diameter disc neo's.
peace love light

Edit: Also, I created this thread for experiments, to see if I could get the true effect and I have.
Not for how low can we go, that was bromikey's ideas, which are fine.
Now I would like to try and make some useful juice and keep the rpm's lower if possible.

John Bedini wrote the bigger the build the better and the slower it needs to move, unlike smaller versions.

[Netica]

Hi Turion,

Its good to read the info you post to help people, thanks for all your help.

From what I can learn your rotors have all the same poles on each side of the rotor. I am just wondering if you have ever tried to run north, south, north, south, on the same side as well. And if you tried it, if you found any difference in the way the generator would run.

I was wondering if you chose all magnet poles being the same on each side of the rotor for any particular reason?

Thanks

[BroMikey]

Hi Turion,


I was wondering if you chose all magnet poles being the same on
each side of the rotor for any particular reason?

Thanks

Yes I can answer that. To use a counter balancing magnet on the
opposite side from the coil from the rotor they must all be one way
(north in this case) to do it.

Turion has told us this for years, but it's okay, I'll help out on repeats
if that is okay?

[SkyWatcher]

Hi all, thanks for sharing the good information.
It's time to fire up the cad software and start working on a design.
peace love light

[alexelectric]

The machine I recommended (which I have also built and am putting back together at this time) is all N magnets out on the rotor. For EXACTLY the reason Bro Mikey talks about. When you are using a horizontal rotor with magnets on the rotor edge, when a magnet is aligned in attraction with a coil, the magnet directly across from it is aligned with an adjustable magnet on the stator. They cancel each other out. In a vertical rotor, that's magnets on the face of the rotor instead of the edge (so it can have a coil on each side of the rotor) wen the magnet is aligned with the two coils, the magnet opposite it on the rotor is aligned BETWEEN two adjustable magnets that match the face of the magnet aligned to them in repulsion. It will not put out as much as my big machine because it is only 10 coil instead of 12 and does not have as many magnets on the rotor, nor are they as thick. But when I get it back up and running it will STILL prove my point. I know some people are going to whine because it doesn’t put out 2,000 watts, but let them. It is also WAY less expensive to build than my big machine for a number of reasons. Size, number of magnets, etc. So it is THIS machine I have chosen to share for replication.

My BIG machine has N/S magnets on the rotors and 12 coils. But the rotor is larger in diameter by 3 inches and has a second set of magnets out closer to the rim. Each time one of the primary magnets centers between two coils in attraction to both, these secondary magnets center between two magnets on the stator in repulsion. The N side of the magnet is aligned with an N magnet on the stator and the S side of the magnet is aligned with an S magnet on the stator. The stator magnets are adjustable on the big machine just like on the small machine, but I made MISTAKES building the big machine that I corrected when I built the smaller one. The big machine used square magnets that rode in square plastic tubing and the little magnet holder that was adjusted in and out was complex and did not work well. I went to round magnets in pvc pipe for the small machine and that eliminated the magnet holder complexity. Live and learn. It was also CHEAPER, which is always good.

At speed I see no difference in INDIVIDUAL coil output between the two machines, but the number of magnets on the rotor makes a difference as does the thickness of the rotor magnets. One just has more coils and stronger magnets. It USED to have weaker magnets and that is when I compared the output of the coils. Right now, the bigger machine definitely gets MORE out of the coils.

Which brings me to another thought. At SOME point the core is absorbing all the flux it can accept, so the coil will put out NO MORE electricity no matter HOW big or thick the magnets are. I don't know what that point IS.

as a side note: I have an entire box that is probably 18 inches square built out of 1 x 6's holding all of the different rotors I have tried on these machines to get the one I believe outputs the most for the situation. They each have a piece of 3/4 plywood between them so that I can get them apart because the all want to stick together. Some of them are only 1/4 inch thick with a single magnet pressed in, and some have magnets pressed in from both sides. Some are missing some of the magnets because they got pulled out for the NEXT rotor. I would be happy to send ANYONE one of my old rotors so they can experiment if they are willing to pay the cost of shipping up front. I am really tired of people promising me they would pay for shipping and then they get what I sent them for FREE and never paid my shipping costs. I can't tell you HOW many times that has happened, and I don't mind giving stuff away for free or I wouldn't OFFER it, but it is the principal of the thing when people make promises they don't keep.

very good information, all the help of this experienced user is appreciated.
a very kind request, can through schemes show what you say, to have more clarity than what was commented, read and read and some things I do not understand, with all respect for your knowledge,

[alexelectric]

thanks for your help Turion

[BroMikey]

.

My BIG machine has N/S magnets on the rotors and 12 coils. But the rotor is larger in diameter by 3 inches and has a second set of magnets out closer to the rim. Each time one of the primary magnets centers between two coils in attraction to both, these secondary magnets center between two magnets on the stator in repulsion. The N side of the magnet is aligned with an N magnet on the stator and the S side of the magnet is aligned with an S magnet on the stator. The stator magnets are adjustable on the big machine just like on the small machine, but I made MISTAKES...................... .

Awesome Dave, dang, why didn't i think of that

[BroMikey]

https://youtu.be/AkECEEj6Yuo

It is nearly impossible to show a rotor that does not cog. What I am
seeing in your videos is that the project is nothing like I envisioned
from the many posts.

video's say it all. No balanced or non cogging rotor I was actually
hoping to see a free wheeling rotor in your set up, yet each time
this is not shown due to problems? Half assembled?

Hum...... Dang I wished I could see that machine with zero cog.

Hard to do.

One thing important for those trying to use the counterbalancing
magnets, use a smaller magnet than the rotor magnet. Distance can
not solve all the problems with balancing.

It is possible I know because I am getting closer.