Roto Verter

[jason]

start caps

Thermart,
Try to find the lowest start up draw by adding or subtracting your start capacitance. If you decade box is wired like most I have seen, your run caps will add to the start capacitance. Start capacitance is not that crucial as far as tunning but too much or too little and you will have a much larger and longer start up draw.

When you do a prony test try to tune the capacitance to the lowest draw. I think Kone just did it without re tunning and he had more mechanical HP out then power in. I had to tune mine. I was latter able to get better results then what I have posted on forums.

I think a 5hp motor will be less then 2.5 hp. Ash would know for sure.

Jason

[theremart]

Thermart,
Try to find the lowest start up draw by adding or subtracting your start capacitance. If you decade box is wired like most I have seen, your run caps will add to the start capacitance. Start capacitance is not that crucial as far as tunning but too much or too little and you will have a much larger and longer start up draw.

When you do a prony test try to tune the capacitance to the lowest draw. I think Kone just did it without re tunning and he had more mechanical HP out then power in. I had to tune mine. I was latter able to get better results then what I have posted on forums.

I think a 5hp motor will be less then 2.5 hp. Ash would know for sure.

Jason

Thanks Jason..

[ashtweth]

Hi Peter , Aron et all.

Thanks Peter, you have made a very valid point. Sure, dont worry Peter can do no wrong here, and nether can any body, it just comes down to the RV language and practical terms. Unfortunately Hector is not the best at practical terms some times, but does make up in other areas. He is not the easiest person to get a direct answer in the individuals language, but thats only the way he is able to explain things.

He is sort of "ahead",in his thinking and it takes allot of reading of his stuff over and over again to understand it. Sad but true. J is only beginning to grasp it too.

He models his experiments of RF protocol, now RF may not be RE to some, but to H it is and he focus's this thinking and circuit concepts based on how standing waves, wave propagation etc happen and make a comparison with RE's behavior.

Now whilst this may be bad, and or good for some, (Sure i understand Peter), and we would also love to hear about Tesla's methods of extracting reactive power, we were kind of hoping you were gonna hi jack this thread with that

We have found the best way to run with this information is to accredit hector and follow his thinking and TEST it, this led to the Neon extraction circuit and the Trans-verter concepts.

Peter is right, and so is H, we really need to get practical language and concepts of the RV/RF/RE comparison and mimic behavior under lab conditions THEN theorize. This then can be formulated into a evidence based fact book and clearer presentation.

Unfortunately We are stuck with this info in the mean time, but get an RV, get a Frequency drive and an extraction circuit and go for the reactive power, doesn't matter if its RF/RE or what ever. I think the theory can come later after the practical applications come through.

[theremart]

Mr Ash,

Hey master of the RV....

What is the normal horsepower a 5 HP motor put out after being converted to a rotoverter? And how did you measure this, I noticed that Kone's prony brake was for small motors.

Thanks!

[ashtweth]

No Thank you Mart! there is always some practical application if you use your head (thats what we are here to do) with the RV, most will look at it on the SURFACE. But really the sky is the limit if you apply your self and i see you are doing just that so it doesnt matter if you win or loose.

Ash

[theremart]

No Thank you Mart! there is always some practical application if you use your head (thats what we are here to do) with the RV, most will look at it on the SURFACE. But really the sky is the limit if you apply your self and i see you are doing just that so it doesnt matter if you win or loose.

Ash

Ok, Mr ash master of the RV,

How much horsepower does a generic 5hp RV put out, in general ?

mart..

[esaruoho]

I applaud Hector for encouraging people to run these experiments, but the RotoVerter is an EFFICIENCY technique, not an OU technique. The Reactive Power circulating in the LC tank circuits can be converted to Real Power, using methods discovered by Tesla, but that is another matter entirely.

hi peter,
where would one go to find articles where tesla discusses reactive power, and reactive power extraction? i know bedini mentions reactive power, and extracts it, the rotoverter people extract it, some talk of clipping the sinewave, there are quite a few circuits around for this, most of them, for some reason, seem to go with diodes and neon bulbs.. but how did tesla generate reactive power in a circuit (the reactive power tesla bulb f.ex.? has that vanished? or was it just a rumoured claim), and how did he extract it, was it using resonance?
Pepe's Tesla Pages: Nikola Tesla
is an excellent resource, but i would trust you to better be able to pinpoint "reactive power converstion to real power methods discovered by tesla." than me doing random searches..
i dont even know if he would have called it reactive power.

help me mr lindemann u r me only hope

[Peter Lindemann]

You Tell Me...

hi peter,
where would one go to find articles where tesla discusses reactive power, and reactive power extraction? i know bedini mentions reactive power, and extracts it, the rotoverter people extract it, some talk of clipping the sinewave, there are quite a few circuits around for this, most of them, for some reason, seem to go with diodes and neon bulbs.. but how did tesla generate reactive power in a circuit (the reactive power tesla bulb f.ex.? has that vanished? or was it just a rumoured claim), and how did he extract it, was it using resonance?
Pepe's Tesla Pages: Nikola Tesla
is an excellent resource, but i would trust you to better be able to pinpoint "reactive power converstion to real power methods discovered by tesla." than me doing random searches..
i dont even know if he would have called it reactive power.

help me mr lindemann u r me only hope

Dear Esaruoho,

Technically speaking, this thread is about Hector's RotoVerter, and I said I would stay out of here. So, I didn't say this...

Charles Steinmetz invented the terminology of "power factor" in the early 1900's, so Tesla did not use these terms in his earlier papers. In his landmark Lecture titled: On Light and other High Frequency Phenomena, delivered twice in early 1893, Tesla discusses his "Method of Conversion" and the wonders it makes possible.

I highly recommend you read, study, and think deeply about this Lecture. This link takes you to a .pdf file of this entire Lecture:

http://www.ubnt.ni.ac.yu/tesla/tesla...a(Lecture).pdf

This link takes you to the primary diagram of the Method of Conversion, taken from this Lecture:

http://www.tesla.hu/tesla/articles/18930200/fig01.gif

There are 6 primary methods disclosed in this drawing. The first one, in the bottom left, labeled "Ib" shows an AC generator powering a Capacitor as the load. After the capacitor, there is a spark-gap (circuit controller) and after that, final loads consisting of light bulbs and motors.

You tell me what this is, and how it operates.

Peter

[theremart]

Off Topic Alert, Off Topic...

Ya. sounds like a great subject, even open another thread for that?

So many ideas....

But Ash, how many HP does a 5 HP motor put out? he he I was amazed at the way that horse power was measured in Peter's video. I was taught in High School that 1 horse power was 2,000 lb's pull. ( what a literal horse could pull )

Digging deeper...

History of the term "horsepower"

Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term "horsepower" was coined by James Watt to help market his improved steam engine. He had previously agreed to take royalties of one third of the savings in coal from the older Newcomen steam engines.[8] This royalty scheme did not work with customers who did not have existing steam engines but used horses instead. Watt determined that a horse could turn a mill wheel 144 times in an hour (or 2.4 times a minute). The wheel was 12 feet in radius, therefore the horse travelled 2.4 × 2π × 12 feet in one minute. Watt judged that the horse could pull with a force of 180 pounds (assuming that the measurements of mass were equivalent to measurements of force in pounds-force, which were not well-defined units at the time).


---------------
The things they did not teach us in school ... But we are learning now!

I guess the question that comes to my mind is when I am testing my RV motor, how do I know that I am pushing the motor beyond what it can do? Under what conditions would I be doing damage to my motor? If I was to put in 115V , and have this motor to say to LOCK. Would I burn up the windings?
It seems to me when I use a drill and put it over it ability smoke starts to come out of the drill ( drilling with a dull bit ) Would the same be true for the RV, as I should be wary of overloading it, and causing the windings to draw excessive amps and burn up the coils...


Just trying to think ahead for when I put this motor into testing...

mart

[ashtweth]

Mart, i must have missed that message sorry man.

Okay is it a 5HP 60 hertz RV or 50 hertz? You can expect to get 1/4 of the horse power as you are feeding 1/4 voltage of what its originally rated at. Of cause if you want more HP just put a custom frequency drive on it, you can raise the HP but still preserve the RV efficiency.

Ash

[aladinlamp]

Do you know any good source for various oil capacitors for the RV?

thanx

[theremart]

RE: horse power

Thanks Ash,

Ok this makes sense to me. What is involved in adding a frequency drive for the RV? Can you give me a web link?

What parts would I need, and how much more power would I get out?

Thanks master of RV

Mart, i must have missed that message sorry man.

Okay is it a 5HP 60 hertz RV or 50 hertz? You can expect to get 1/4 of the horse power as you are feeding 1/4 voltage of what its originally rated at. Of cause if you want more HP just put a custom frequency drive on it, you can raise the HP but still preserve the RV efficiency.

Ash

[theremart]

Source for the RV

Do you know any good source for various oil capacitors for the RV?

thanx

This is my source...

10 MFD 370 VAC OVAL RUN CAPACITOR
Surplus Center Item Detail

[ashtweth]

Okay the Best i know is the Custom 12-24V SG (nothing to do with JB) Frequency drive inverter. You have to make it your self tho
Mart drop me an email ill email oyu the file, its in EVGRAY files or RVreplication Files under SG inverter.

Now i suggest you read this energy saving compilation as we have recommended an off the shelf one. Check out Frequency drives in the index, it also has all the info on the torque, prony and HP rating issue.

You know, i would pay 100$ if Peter could prony break the RV, just to get it out of my system and see what figures he could come up with. Its not easy prony breaking an RV tho.

http://panacea-bocaf.org/files/RV%20...%20and%20D.pdf

[theremart]

Update on my testing of the RV

Ok, I took Peter's advice and I bought myself a kill -a watt meter.

What I found really surprized me.

The rotoverter ->

I was able to use only two caps to start the rotoverter but I had to have all the run caps on to do so.


It took about 9.6 to 11.5 Amps to start the motor.

Then after I shut off the start cap it dropped down to 2.46 Amps.
it was turning at 3512 RPM.
257 Watts is what the Kill -a Watt was reporting.
122.0 Volts supply voltage


I then hooked up the meter to my oil heater for a comparison.

It was pulling 12 Amps...


Then my fancy Vitamix blender at full speed 11 Amps.
( normally about 29,000 RPM ) this baby MOOOOOVES

----------------------------------------

I have not done the other means of improving performance yet, that is oiling the bearings, removing the fan etc.... But just an update...

Still have not got a battery to start it. I did some testing it stops when it draws 2 amps from source battery. I beleive I am tripping the inverter before it can pull the full amount... The inverter is rated at 2500 W 5000W peak.... I am thinking something is very wrong here I should be getting more out of the batteries than I have... my guess is to point the finger at the inverter.