Roto Verter

[revizal]

New motor on RV setup

Hi All,

I bought a new 2HP 3 PH 2840 RPM motor to work in my RV Project. This motor drive my last 2HP 3PH 1400 RPM motor which will act as a generator. I coupled it by belt to get higher power output result. I got virtual circulating power output 2440 watt from 1300 watt input. May be it will give better result if I could tune the cap on the fly.

Here is the vid:

YouTube - RV-3 PH motor as Generator (Better Result)

Rev.

[ashtweth]

Thanks Rev, you are getting there!

What you will have there ATM is VARS (voltage amps reactive) or circulating current, what we need to do is transform it into usable WATTS. ATM it is not watts but reactive power, so cannot be series loaded.

The RV way to extract this into usable watts is profiled on the RV document on the panacea university site . Don't forget to come to EVGRAY yahoo energy group and post there as well as here. Will have a new extraction Schematic done to try soon from Chad hopefully. Thanks for video Rev.

Ash

[lookingin]

Need Help

@All,
First post, and have been a student in green machines for a long time. The Roto Verter will fit in my plans. I didn't want to start another thread.. But if you feel it should be Please move it. Here's what I have STERLING SIHI GMBH 3 PHASE electric motor and fluid pump. (New) 3 Phase 2.95 hp 3460 rpm 346/480 4.5 4.9 amps 200/280 8.5/8.0. I will post pictures very soon. I can't fine much information in the pump. It was made in Germany. It's has six wires and two very small wires. The two very small wires has a warning of over protection 2.5V. I have studied ash's PDF and will make a capacitor box very soon. It seems very close to 50hz motor.

[ashtweth]

Hi lookingin welcome to the forum Brother
Its not my PDF, it belongs to the open source community , that's what panacea is, inspired b y and here to support YOU guys.

okay, this sounds like a perfect project, i really want people to start with the energy savings like Rev did,. its practical and can lead to a higher understanding of tuning and advanced configurations.

Dont forget like Rev, you will need a FREQUENCY DRIVE to get more HP out of your pump, usually you get 1/3 of the rated shaft power as we are feeding it with 1/3 of tHe voltage, BUT, this has a higher and more efficient power factor, in theory you should be able to create an AC motor controller and tune the caps and still run in Rv mode with the higher and more efficient shaft power!

looking forward to the snaps and videos

Ash

[revizal]

New setup based on original doc

Hi Ash,

Based on your previous suggestion due to friction and slip at rubber belting, I made a setup like original RV documentation. Last 2HP 3PH motor drive on PM saft directly and I got more power on saft. Thanks for your helping me.
Here is the vid link:

YouTube - RV-Coupling on Saft 2HP 3PH motor head to head

Rev.

[ashtweth]

WEll done Rev!!! This is a good start, there is some good VARS there to extract, Kone gave some great advice there on you tube about a solution to output the load from the alternator ONLY at the AC sinewave PEAKS FEEDING the motor.

The best START to understand this and master it (then to move on to
higher power extraction) is in the deliverance circuit in EVGRAY in
files with light-trigger or similar with trigger-trafo off run cap
phase sensing sine wave peaks. Its also backed up in the RV
compilations. REV let me know if you cannot find it ill show you.

With your RV water pump, you can also run it in "DC humping AC" mode
which is included in the uni RV course document. This can give you
more torque till you get a frequency drive there, or hack an inverter.

Hector prefers the 7.5 60 hertz baldors, but you can still get some good virtual to extract with those motors. Rev very impressive man.

[cody]

I apologize if these have already come up, i havnt been following this thread. Here are two great videos from konehead on the basic conversion of a rotoverter. I would say its worth a watch if you are thinking about making one.
YouTube - Rotoverter Conversion Demonstration Part 1
YouTube - Rotoverter Conversion Demonstration Part 2

[esaruoho]

Adee's Rotoverter page
Adee's Rotoverter report

[theremart]

Update on rotoverter.

YouTube - Video 60 Rotoverter with Wagar inverter

Completed hack on wagar inverter. I have noticed that not only frequency changes with this hack but so does voltage.

[esaruoho]

(trying to get stuff right in my head, reply if it goes wrong and point me right)
Virtual current / VAR circulating in the circuit can be extracted with a sinewave peak extraction circuit. This circuit has to date not been built by any of the replicators that have posted their VAR results, or so it would appear. Austin Adee got to VAR, Samul Penttilä got to VAR, and various others, some on Overunity etc have got to VAR and then either explained it away as a measurement error (Samuli Penttilä, on this page ), or as something that should be built a circuit to extract (Austin Adee, on this site ("Problems: I cant 'extract' or 'use' this power yet, but i haven't gotten a resistive load equal to the resonance of the alternator. I can, however turn the lights on for a brief moment (80 watts)")))) .. So Samuli found with his oscilloscope shots that the virtual circulating current or VAR is out of phase by .. 90 degrees? .. he wrote "Sitten kun joku keksii laitteen, jolla saadaan generaattorin ulostulon jännite ja virta samanvaiheiseksi itse generaattorin siitä häiriintymättä, ollaan jäljillä." - "When someone figures out how the generator's outside voltage and current can be made into the same phase, without the generator getting harassed by it, then we are in the path of progress"). anyway, i've been sending samuli the circuits imagery this way and that way but for some reason they haven't gotten built.

so now its up to anyone basically to go and find the required information to be able to create a peak-extraction circuit that takes the exact peaks of the power and gets the out-of-phaseness out of it by phasecorrection. i see Konehead has always suggested a Full Wave Bridge Rectifier to be used in the various extraction circuits.
this is where the finn got, and then gave up. i dont know why this happens. how many sinewave peak extraction circuits are there, and should there perhaps be a person who builds them and sends them out to these who have verified virtual current but haven't then done anything about it further.
Doug Konzen said, in addition to this diagram picture:

"Here is a way to charge battery from a rotovertor AC motor, and the pulsing to the charge battery only occurs at the peaks of the sinewave feeding the AC motor, which makes it "non-reflective" to the amperage draw of the motor while charging the charge battery."

-- from what ive been reading on evgray it seems that some circuits there has to be two of, in order to be non-reflective back to the motor/alternator rotoverter setup. so theres something that the running device does, that you want to extract, and immediately say "GOTCHA! not letting you back into the circuit, you go HERE now!". and this timing so that the current that is extracted is not reflected/returned back into the motor/alternator RV setup and the capacitors and the lot, is required to be made sure that there are no .. losses in the rotoverter itself and it doesnt hiccup?

the Deliverance circuit in the EVGRAY yahoogroup in the files, a "light-trigger or a similar with a trigger-trafo off run-capacitor, which is phase sensing sine-wave-peaks.." a-ha. well, there's info in the RV compilations, which are here. Ok, Deliverance Circuit, in that RV pdf, and also in the files of EVGray yahoogroups.

Konehead posted in august 2008 this:
"RV sinewave peak trigger" - This is simple circuit that triggers a mosfet charging battery only at sinewave peaks of AC signal feeding AC motor for "non-reflective" power output. and a further description is "Bug-zapper transformer across run cap phase senses sinewave peaks" - and that seems to be this: picture. so, back to the desc: "Here is a way to charge battery from a rotovertor AC motor, and the pulsing to the charge battery only occurs at the peaks of the sinewave feeding the AC motor, which makes it "non-reflective" to the amperage draw of the motor while charging the charge battery."


well, maybe the circuit will be built! maybe the other peak-extraction circuits will also be built.

[esaruoho]

circuit | MERLib.org

[ashtweth]

Thx, for those links guys, Great Vid Mart very professionally done, i am glad you didnt give up on this right away, we are working towards getting the extraction circuits tested this year, so its nice to know your rig will be there waiting when we crack it.

Now you should be able to get that free wheeling draw down, try tuning the run cap a bit, don't forget when you increase the frequency the capacitance that's needed will be LOWER.

Ash

[revizal]

RV-Test load

Hi All,

Here is the test load of my last RV-Setup.

YouTube - RV 2HP 3 PH Motor-Test Load

Rev.

[sciencisto]

rotoverter on less thatn 4 W

You can call this „saving energy” when running a motor idle in rotoverter configuration.
A 5.5 kW motor at 50 Hz or 6.6 kW at 60 Hz (8.8 hp) runs on less than 4 W real power on one phase, so theoretically it can be run from a 1.5 V battery.

To achieve such result the motor bearings have to be well cleaned and slightly lubricated, the fan and the gaskets have to be removed. This motor shaft stops turning ~ 2.5 minutes after the power is switched off.

This film shows the data: ~3 W on the watt meter (the active range is 100 W), when drawing 0,21A on the amp meter (left) and 20.14 V on the volt meter):
http://filmoj.info/laboratorio/esplo...4/P1040484.MOV
more pictures in:
Index of /laboratorio/esploroj/rv/RV_04

[Tecstatic]

Congratulations with a great result !

Hi,

I have toyed a bit with the rotoverter myself, And I'm impressed you have results like Hector says is possible.

Although you have made the video and the pictures, I'm not sure what your circuit is.

Does the black box hold a frequency drive and caps, and have you played with voltage, frequency and pulse duration to get this impressive result, or is it a plain rotoverter ?

Are you willing to share your diagram ?

Eric