The secret to extracting mechanical energy out of SSG

[elias]

Next I would like to try out a four magnet smaller wheel with a diameter as small as needed to get the space between magnets exactly like the space between magnets on the larger wheel, that would be about 8cm diameter.
Thank you,
Jetijs

Jetijs,

My new rotor performs good, but it is a bit difficult to make it align, My previous smaller rotor didn't have much alignment problems and it worked right away. Why? I think that it because of the spacing of the magnets, Spacing of the magnets must not be exactly the same as the main rotor, its better to make the spacings about 0.7-0.75 times the spacings in the main rotor. This would enable the magnets "grab" the main rotor much strongly and would result in much robust performance as my previous rotor does, so I am about to decrease the spacings of my magnets.

Elias

[Jetijs]

Here are my rotors:


The smaller one has three magnets and is about 6cm in diameter. The spacing between the magnets is a little less than on the big rotor. Tho other one is about 8cm in diameter and with 4 magnets. This time I will double stack the magnets on the big rotor and use single magnets on the small rotors. Unfortunately I wont be able to test the second magnet arrangement where the magnets are not facing N to N directly as this requires double stacked magnets also in smaller wheels. Or I will have to make a new smaller rotors with the space only for one magnet in the gap.

[elias]

Smaller magnets

Jetijs,

As I tried out various configurations, I concluded, that magnet width of the smaller rotor should be AT MOST half the magnet width of the large rotor or even less for better synchronized operation, I tried spacing my magnets closer like the attached photo, but it wasn't easily coupled, now the only difference that remains with my previous small SSG rotor, is the magnet size which are 1cm in width, compared to my magnets on my larger rotor which are 2.4cm in length. This wheel with 1cm width magnet works incredibly well!! I can even couple it to my larger wheel while it is turning and with a spin it gets synchronized with it! So I am going to make my magnets smaller in width. So you'd better consider this, as you can stack the smaller magnets on top of your magnets on your small rotors.

Peter sees these stuff, because he is so experienced (Thanks for pointing this out). I had to experiment to find out small magnets are critical for more synchronous operation.

The attached picture shows my small rotor with 6 1.5cm width magnets, which does not get synchronized very well, I used four It didn't work so I made it six and still it didn't work. To work we must go down in width of the magnets.

Edit:
As a final note, I think that for now N poles facing outwards (like monopole) is good and efficient for this setup and drags the rotor less than the rotor arranged with magnets sideways.


Elias

[Jetijs]

Hi,
today I tried my small 4 and 3 magnet rotors. The 4 magnet rotor was very hard to synchronize and when it did, the torque was very low. The 3 magnet rotor was easier to synchronize, but also didn't have a lot of torque. In the video you can see, that it is hard to get them to couple when the speed is great, i had to slow the bigger wheel down before I could get the smaller one to couple. I guess that the magnets on the smaller wheel are too big. The only thing I really can try out on my setup and with the magnets I have, is the second setup, elias posted with only three magnets on the small wheel positioned perpendicular to the magnets on the bigger wheel. Here are the pictures and the video. Enjoy:





YouTube - SSG tests 2

[elias]

what about the energy?

Jetijs,

Nice work, but have you compared the energy output from those rotors? I mean have you loaded those rotors with the same load and compared the RPM of your main rotor. I am pretty sure that the little rotor would drag the rotor less on the same load.

What I did for testing the energy output, was warming up a piece of metal with the shafts of each of my rotors, when I loaded them to reach a constant RPM, My smaller rotor could warm up the metal much faster. I am sure that you are getting more work, if you could test and verify. Your little rotor must be four times faster than your big rotor, and if they were conventional gears then you'd expect the torque power of the small rotor be one-fourth the larger rotor, but as I have verified it is more, You can consider your small rotor being able to produce about one-third the torque your large wheel produces. As I said the key to more synchronous operation is the magnet size of the second rotor which must be at least two times smaller than you bigger wheel.

I will make a video and post it tomorrow to show what my rotor does. The small rotor with small magnets really works great, so great that it is very difficult to make it stop. I am going to make my rotors magnets smaller, and see what happens.

Elias

[ren]

I was checking out generator designs and I came across this guys.

http://www.scoraigwind.com/pmgbooklet/itpmg.pdf

It shows a windmill generator built from scratch. I note that the coils, which are large size gauge are coreless and still seem to be able to generate a decent amount of current. I think something based along these sorts of lines would perform well coupled to an sg. Or large window motor.

Also note, that there are two magnetic rotors, and that they are out of phase from each other, meaning that the coil has a north pole passing one side at the same time a south pole passes the other.

[Jetijs]

Thanks for the document, ren
I have a few tips, how to improve that design. First of all you should use Neo magnets instead of the ceramic ones. You could use Even number of Magnets, to Odd number of Coils like in Muller generator (they are using both even - the coils and the magnets). They have 6 coils and 8 magnets. 8 coils and 7 magnets would be better (I think). Also, to generate more current, we could use a low drag core material, for example magnetite/hematite/resin cores. If simple coils without cores generate enough current, then such a core should improve the performance with only minimal additional drag.

[ren]

my thoughts exactly Jet! Including the 7 to 8 ratio. I figure at the very least this will be a super efficient generator. With a window/sg motor that is setup for battery swapping (i.e. front to back) you could end up with something that creates usable current for a correctly sized load.

I am interested to see if there is a difference between Mullers config and this one. I believe Muller had a single magnetic rotor with both poles of the magnets being used. So the test would be Coils on both sides vs Coils in the middle of two rotors essentially. Perhaps this last one works well because of the magnetic flux on both sides of the coils, allowing the coils to be coreless.

Cores need to be experimented with if the above proves insufficient. Neos too! Goodness, my bank account is going to take a flogging

[Aaron]

magnetic gear

This isn't as sophisticated as what you all are doing but this concept is one of the very first things I tried early on a few months after meeting John and within a day or two of building my first SG. You can see my transistor is the mps8099 as indicated in his early diagram of the school girl motor. I didn't even know what a transistor was when I built it...from the top view, my wiring and components looked like the schematic..that was the only way I knew how to do it.

These are poor quality photos as I took a photo of a photo (scanner wasn't working).

I attached the remote control car wheel/shaft setup to the SG shaft with some vice grips taped to the SG shaft and locked down on the RC wheel shaft. I had some small neos double stacked or tripple stacked on the RC wheel...the skate wheel had double stacked neos.

The 2nd pic is side view so you can see the gap. I didn't measure torque or anything...I just amused myself with the fact that it spun the other wheel as I thought it would. As you can see I had fun and make a Yin/Yang symbol and taped it to the wheel..lol

This was about 7-8 years ago or so. Just showing this for fun

[ren]

Its funny. That ying/yang symbol makes so much more sense to me now. I see it as a symbol of the unity between positive and negative energy. Each colour has its path to flow, yet they do it together while at the same time being apart. And there is a small amount of ones opposite in each. I guess the Chinese really knew their stuff!

[Jetijs]

This guy has some interesting videos in youtube. There are similarities of what we are talking about here:
YouTube - laboratoriokazumi's Channel
Thanks,
Jetijs

[elias]

Pretty new videos

This guy has some interesting videos in youtube. There are similarities of what we are talking about here:
YouTube - laboratoriokazumi's Channel
Thanks,
Jetijs

Thanks, I'll take a look at them, I actually blew up my SSG, I guess that one of my coils was not so tight and it moved a bit at about 1400 RPM and made my rotor explode ! So I am repairing it to demonstrate the excess energy of my system, so sorry for the delay.

Thank You

[gmeat]

Elias

Hi Elias, Sorry to hear your motor crapping out ,I feel your pain.Was that the tricoil one.How was that motor working with regard to charging batteries up, As you never really mentioned much with regard to it.

-gmeat

[elias]

It works best!

Hi Elias, Sorry to hear your motor crapping out ,I feel your pain.Was that the tricoil one.How was that motor working with regard to charging batteries up, As you never really mentioned much with regard to it.

-gmeat

Gmeat

I have tested it for charging 12v7AH batteries and it charges them in about 3 hours, and it is able to burst them up to 15.20 volts when the battery is fully charged, but I have never super charged batteries with it, as I have a dead battery to restore, which has been on it for two weeks, with not much luck.

It draws about 800mA at 24volts, while running at 1200 RPM, and 180 pulses per second. It has 9 magnets on the wheel.
It is pretty powerful in mechanical output, and coupling a small rotor, really makes this device produce more energy.

This is all I can say about my SSG at the moment.

Elias

[theremart]

Thanks, I'll take a look at them, I actually blew up my SSG, I guess that one of my coils was not so tight and it moved a bit at about 1400 RPM and made my rotor explode ! So I am repairing it to demonstrate the excess energy of my system, so sorry for the delay.

Thank You

Been there felt that wall.