Capacitor options

[Ewhaz]

So basically what you are saying here is that the circuit is simply there to create the negative resistors IN the battery utilizing the pulses of electricity, switching on the negative side to get potential across the positive pole?

If the circuit was generic the I can only assume the 14 hz pulsing circuit was simply there to discharge a 3.3uf.. In other words the capacitance doesn't matter so long as the cap is allowed to charge to a decent voltage before being pulsed to the battery. What about creating the negative resistors in the Caps though? I know that would at least improve the charging of it, if possible, increasing the output over time.

[Peter Lindemann]

Negative Resistor

So basically what you are saying here is that the circuit is simply there to create the negative resistors IN the battery utilizing the pulses of electricity, switching on the negative side to get potential across the positive pole?

If the circuit was generic the I can only assume the 14 hz pulsing circuit was simply there to discharge a 3.3uf.. In other words the capacitance doesn't matter so long as the cap is allowed to charge to a decent voltage before being pulsed to the battery. What about creating the negative resistors in the Caps though? I know that would at least improve the charging of it, if possible, increasing the output over time.

Ewhaz,

As far as I am concerned, the "Negative Resistor in the Battery" was the expression of a THEORY by Tom Bearden to try to explain the energy gain in the system. This was never quantified until I worked for John in 2004. During the development of the Golf Cart charger, I started to track the charging process of the batteries every day with a computer. What showed up was very curious. Based on uniform discharges of the batteries by driving the Golf Cart 5 miles a day, the charge back time was always the longest on Monday, after sitting idle for two days over the weekend. On Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, the charge back time finished up to an hour and a half earlier. The charts all showed that "something" remained in the battery, allowing the charge to finish earlier, as long as the battery was charged and discharged once a day. If you skipped one day, you had lost about half of the benefit. If you skipped two days, the benefit was pretty much dissipated. It was never determined exactly "what" was causing this, but it happened 100% of the time. Whatever it is, this is the effect that allows the systems to go OU by shortening the total time required to produce a full charge. Considering it dissipated over time when the battery was resting, I came to believe that it was NOT a Negative Resistor effect as postulated by Bearden.

You will never see this effect if you only run your tests once in a while.

Most hobbyists will never see these things. Without systematic testing and proper measuring methods, the phenomena is hard to prove. But we quantified it in 2004, and have the computer graphs to prove it.

I don't think you can create a Negative Resistor effect in the battery. It behaves more like an "electret" effect, where the POTENTIAL remains high and the battery appears to continue to charge itself after being removed from the charger. Aaron has seen this too.

Peter

[Ewhaz]

So in other words, without a constant cycle of charging and discharging, there is no over unity in the battery. That's useful to know.

However, I had only wanted to do a proof of concept for two reasons. One was for myself, and the other was to share the results so that others can use this as well. After that I have tons of experiments I want to do, including scaling this up for more 'useful' applications. With your motor designs and this battery charging technology, as well as other applications such as the Tesla turbine, the sky is pretty much the limit.

Still it's kind of frustrating to learn that these results are hard to prove or even observe, it's not as if I can sit around and watch the batteries charge by any means, real life and all. There are safety concerns so I can't just leave the batteries and trust they will be safe while I'm gone. I think it's time I learned some programming so I can get the computer to handle the monitoring and switching applications.

[Aaron]

multimeter monitoring

Ewhaz,

You can get a multimeter at radio shack with a cable that plugs into just about any computer and it has software that comes with it. It will show the readings right on your screen. That is a simple way to monitor what the battery voltage is showing and have it graphed. I have it at my other place right now so I don't know the model but it is a standard one at radio shack.
I think it might have been in the $50-60 price range but not sure. I can't find that one on their website but I'm sure they have others that do the same.

[Ewhaz]

Ewhaz,

You can get a multimeter at radio shack with a cable that plugs into just about any computer and it has software that comes with it. It will show the readings right on your screen. That is a simple way to monitor what the battery voltage is showing and have it graphed. I have it at my other place right now so I don't know the model but it is a standard one at radio shack.
I think it might have been in the $50-60 price range but not sure. I can't find that one on their website but I'm sure they have others that do the same.

I'll look into that, it will make documenting very easy. I also need something that will shut the system down when either the power battery gets too low, or the charging battery reaches charge. My point is I don't have any one that can watch this for me to make sure it doesn't go BOOM.

[Chip Shorter]

Batteries can act real wierd too. I worked in a starter and alternator shop when I was a teenager and noticed guys with a few hundred thousand miles on their airport taxi's were on the original battery sometimes 7-8 years old. However cars that were owned by people who drove them hardly ever-sports cars that sit in winter or farm equipment that sat idle for a season, all had battery problems leading to replacement.
I worked in a factory that had a golf cart that nobody ever seemed to charge or leave on the charger very long. It would continue operating although the performance of the batteries was diminished and a noticable effect on top speed ensued. If it was left to sit for about three hours it would come back to life. The plant was huge and ran 24/6. One time after a shutdown I put some asperin in the cells and it came to life for a while. It seemed the load drawn from it really mattered because we had electric lift trucks with 72 or 96 volt systems that would go down hard and never come back. How the battery was killed had a lot to do with it I think. The golf cart had a light load- a passenger wheras the lift truck had an 8000 pound load with a hydraulic pump to deal with.
I noticed the batteries after running on the old SG after a while get that way too their not fully charged but their certainly not dead either and are living beyond their normal lives. I call it battery Zombification.

Capacitors sometimes will just get old and start to trail off. Some like flash circuit caps are meant to be discharged rapidly. Others are designed for low leakage. Sometimes a cap will start to smell before it goes bad. Also they don't age well. They have a shelf life it seems. I bought some old caps recently and out of five I threw one away.

[theremart]

Capacitor...

After hooking up my Roto Verter I now realize that there are AC capactiors, and DC capacitors. I am trying to understand the difference, it seems I see people on youtube using AC capacitors where you would a DC capacitor... Anyone know the difference, and if they would be good for an SSG discarge ( AC capacitor that is )

Thanks!

[Jetijs]

As far as I know, every AC capacitor can be used for DC, but not the other way around

[Ewhaz]

I got my 4uf capacitors the other day and put them in, testing to see if the circuit would see any vast improvement.

Nothing so far, it climbed from about 12.7 v to 13.02 in about 3 hours, then from there it climbed only a measily .2v after the next 8 hours, then only about .06v after the next 8 hours after that. I think I'm going to build another coil and go with the rotor setup instead. I was hoping to have a proof of concept first before I branched off and started tinkering and fine tuning but I guess I'll just have to dive in and get this damned thing working one way or another.

[theremart]

Slow raise on batteries.

Believe it or not from what I have seen this is normal. ( taking longer to charge the top end of the battery (12.90 +) I think of it like compressing air into a bottle. it seems when the bottle is full, it takes more force to get more air in.

I am guessing that is why people build bigger Bedinis.. ( more coils more transistors )

Jetijs, thanks for the info about the capacitors.

Mart

[Aaron]

chart the voltage especially toward the end

Mart,

The compressed air analogy is great as we are working with a literal gas.

If you all chart the voltage in increments, maybe even 5 minutes, 10, 15 maybe at most, you will see a pattern towards the end but you have to look close.

It will tell you when to stop charging.

Put it on a graph and you'll see it.

[Aaron]

When to stop charging

Here are a few samples I recorded by HAND...I would wake up throughout the night to go look at the meters and write stuff down....with my radio shack multimeter with the rs232 port, that will chart the voltage on screen and you can save the graphs...that is what you want. Usually the peak stays the same for a bit.

6.67
6.68
6.77
6.80
6.83
6.93
6.97
7.20
7.14

...................10.76
11.25
11.33
11.35
11.22 (not higher because still being repaired)

.......12.20
12.45
12.33

.......11.04
11.19
11.05

There were all gel cells...the 6v's were 1.7ah and the 12v's were 7ah's

[thedude]

When I built my first "dual battery charger" SG, I needed 330uf 600v caps because I wanted to build everything 100% perfect to the schematic..I think that is what they were.

Anyway, I went to a photo lab at a local grocery store and asked them if I could have a bag full of discarded disposable cameras for a science project. They gave me about a dozen of them. Inside are 120uf to 300uf+ caps at a 120v up to a few hundred volts. They're free if you get them this way. I hope this helps.

LOL! that is beautiful advice. I just phoned 2 different photo finishing locations and came up with 4 of the same model of 330v 80uf photo caps. They are more than ready to just give them away. :P I have officially become the photo mart scavenger of my home town. There are some good salvageable components in these cameras. Great suggestion!

As far as using a capacitive discharge, i'm definitely going to test with and without one on my secondary bank in my set up. However, i am getting a general indication that it isn't necessarily the method of discharge to the secondary banks that is the issue in achieving efficiency. I watched John and Tom's dvd in which John basically declares that if you can generate enough radiant spiking that "you don't need a capacitor". I took this as his way of saying "add as many bifilar coils and magnetic poles as you can to achieve a radiant charge. I could be wrong. Or as Peter says its the mechanical output that best illustrates the OU in the system. I have been watching my 5 - 12.5v 4.5ah batteries for more than 2 days now. I have been swapping 1 primary battery before it reaches 12v for another which i remove from secondary for 20mins before placing on in primary position. The charging bank has been holding at a near steady 12.45volts (tends to drop down and recover with each switching). Now i say that i remove each battery before it reaches 12volts, however there are two of the 5 batteries that are slightly older (by 2 weeks) and have been charged on negative radiant spikes for a longer period of time compared to the other 3 newer bats. These two older batteries ultimately perform as well as the other 3 while running the circuit on much lower voltage. These batteries tend to charge up to 12.45 volts quicker than the others do, however they also discharge very quickly to 10 volts or lower and then simply hold at that point and run the circuit just as fast and with as much current as the others. These two batteries are also the only batteries that seem to produce a double pulse off the collector (sort of a h-wave pattern with a double back on it). I'm still quite inexperienced so i don't know if adding my observations is of benefit at this point.

Its nice to have a place to discuss things.
all my friends think i'm crazy. lol

Oh ya, i set up a page to illustrate my SSG project and scope shots. I promise to get a better camera soon. :P Darcy Klyne's Bedini Monopole Replication

[SkyWatcher]

Charging individual cells

Hi folks, I have also been able to charge gel cells using cap pulsing while getting a stable non-fluffly charge however in most experiments ive done with bedini motor or solid state where i only used the pulses off the diodes the charge was fluffy. Now that said, there is one solid state circuit ive tested that is pretty much like a dc to dc step up converter which is based on one of teslas patents i believe. I am posting a pic of the circuit that worked well for me. Also others have had similar thoughts on the notion of charge time of a battery enabling OU, and why are we not charging individual cells rather than batteries of cells with the losses associated with charging series strings of cells, it seems to me we could charge parallel banks of cells much faster for the same input than we can charge series strings of cells and by charging the parallel method the faster charging would possibly enable OU to a higher degree. I know something called "Slycell" used this method of charging and stated other charging sources could be used as well other than solar cells. Any thoughts welcome.

peace love light

[SkyWatcher]

Just like to add a couple more thoughts. I used 3, 1 farad car audio caps in series for the cap pulser. So with the parallel lead acid cells or similar, we no longer have the equivalent of counter emf meaning whatever our source we have to generate 12v to even start to charge the battery but essentially that 12v is destroyed just as Peter L. points out in his videos about standard motors, and we have less losses in the charging process that lead to faster charging. It makes sense to me only thing left to do is prove it or not to myself. After all the "Slycell" charging method is able to charge a 12v lead acid in just less than 1 hour that would normally take 6 hours with the same solar panel.