Veljko Milkovic' - 2 Stage Oscillator Violates 3rd Law of Motion

[Aaron]

edit

If you have any understanding that the output is DISCONNECTED from
the output - making it self running is IRRELEVANT. You get more work than
what you pay for and you continue to leave the output disconnected
from the input so as not to close the loop.

EDIT: output is DISCONNECTED from the INPUT

Basically, they're not in lock-step

[Aaron]

cop

will be at the greatest point of advantage to get that work done with the least energy in.

The word overunity is not a very scientific word

Right. Like the bouncing ball example. It takes x joules to lift a 40 gram
superball to a meter. 100% of what we put in is 100% GONE and DISSIPATED
once it reaches a meter. What we get out of what we put in IS the lift
in and of itself.

When it falls, it is all 100% gravitational potential free input from nature
after that. 17% is dissipated (if 83% bounce up on the first bounce) in
the form of heat, etc... losses and ball compression and 83% of a potential
difference is re-established so NEW potential comes in. None is ever left
over from what was input on each cycle - each cycle is regenerated new.

So, there is no such thing as conservation of energy.

Just full dissipation input, then a new potential difference is established
where completely NEW potential comes in. Nothing is transformed from
one form to another.

Dipole/potential difference is established, potential comes in can do
work, dissipation, then re-establishment of new potential difference.

Anyway, at 83cm, all we need to input is 17cm worth of work from then
on to lift it from 83cm to a meter and let go and for 17cm of work we
continuously get the ball to 1 meter.

Since we don't include free environmental input in COP, only what we have
to invest, 100cm of height for the cost of 17cm from then on is a cop of
5.88 per bounce if we always just make up for the loss to get it to a meter.

If we don't make up for loss and just lift it to a meter and let go, it will
be over 7.0+. EDIT: If you don't touch it after the initial lift and calculate
all the joules in work required to lift it to each height on each bounce
until it comes to a stop.

Anyway, overunity is an oxymoron since it implies that we will get more
than everything there, which completely makes no sense but COP does
fit the ticket to accurately describe what we actually pay for compared
to what work we actually get to benefit from.

[Gdez]

Pumping the swing

@ kcarring,
Inquorate and I got on the subject of the swing a little while back, and I have played around with the idea. I made this movie to explain what happens on a swing, in laymens terms. I was trying to figure out how to mimick the way you would swing your legs to go higher. For all that would like a more scientific explanation, I suggest this pdf

http://staff.kfupm.edu.sa/phys/tahme...0a%20swing.pdf

simulation vid YouTube - gdez1000's Channel

In the simulation I posted on youtube, I have a motor set at about 20 rpm( it works at other rpms also) I also have a brake set on the motor. In the beginning of the clip, I turn the brake off and on and let the arm advance a little bit. This gets the swing started. To make this the simulation simple I control(release and engage) the brake manually. The green arrow at about 7:00 seems to be the best spot to release the brake. Until you acheive full rotation it seems that the best spot to engage the brake is somewhere between 4:00 and 1:00. Once full rotation is acheived it seems that the ideal place to re-engage the brake is at about 3:00.(green arrow #2) Remember I am timing this by eye, I think someone with better simulations could probably tell the exact point for optimum preformance, for "the braking". At about 1:30 in the video, you can see that I can let it rotate 2 to 3 times without changing anything. All it takes is a small move of the arm to keep it going. All that I am doing is changing the path of the center of gravity. This is what you do when you are on a swing.

Matt Jones says above "Thats the point of his machine. To show the collision at slow speeds. But that very effect can be invoked in alot of different things. Don't center on the machine itself center on the effect it gives, and whole new world opens up."

This simulation on my video is another example of the two stage oscillation process. Milkovic says that this multple oscillation process even shows up in nature.

It would be interesting to apply a similar device to the simulation I posted onto the feltenberger style TSMO, it would then have triple oscillations.

Rhead100 is very close to nailing down the exact input he needs to keep his pendulum going, so keep an eye on his project. I also can't wait to see Matt Jones "boucer". I think his next one is going to open some eyes.

Anyway, I have my own ideas about how to "close the loop", using an escapement by mechanical means only, and hopefully i'll be back to building within the next week or two.

Hope someone finds this video useful,
Gdez

[Michael John Nunnerley]

Change of state

@ all

First of all it is needed to understand how an over cop situation happens, and yes it does, but a certain event or events have to take place.

To get an over cop you always have to have at least one change of state. This is like voltage to current or current to voltage, mechanical to electrical or electrical to mechanical, magnetic field to electrical or electrical to magnetic, chemical element to chemical compound or in reverse.

A heat pump is electrical to mechanical to chemical change of state and the extra energy has come from the ambient air and chemical change of state.

An over cop electrical device is one that changes very low current to very high voltage by using both the low input and the high output to drive a third state all at the same time and in doing so collect free energy that is in the ambient be it magnetic flux lines in the earth or another term, from the lattice which is energy which is sitting there to be absorbed if one knows how, and yes there are certain people that know how.

The point is that you ALWAYS HAVE TO CHANGE THE STATE OF YOUR ENERGY even if you started with mechanical and want to end up with mechanical, in between you will have to change the state.

I hope I have explained myself, I just don't want people to be trying to make an only mechanical machine to do a cop of 1, it will not happen.

Mike

[spiralout]

YouTube - living energy machine

[Gdez]

yes!

@Spiral out,
I only wish I had the equipment and plans to build that, it would be absolutley perfect for what I want to do. I first saw it on panacea's pdf, and I can't beleive that no one has tried to put it on a tsmo. If I could put one of those on my tsmo, with a 200 lb pendulum, I think the power would be incredible. If anybody feels generous and wants to send me one , I'll hook it up immediantly.(haa, ha) Till then spiral, why don't you help me figure out how to build maybe something similar. It can't be that hard, and I'm game if we could do it cheap.
We're only limited by our imagination,
Gdez

[Matthew Jones]

@Spiral out,
I only wish I had the equipment and plans to build that, it would be absolutley perfect for what I want to do. I first saw it on panacea's pdf, and I can't beleive that no one has tried to put it on a tsmo. If I could put one of those on my tsmo, with a 200 lb pendulum, I think the power would be incredible. If anybody feels generous and wants to send me one , I'll hook it up immediantly.(haa, ha) Till then spiral, why don't you help me figure out how to build maybe something similar. It can't be that hard, and I'm game if we could do it cheap.
We're only limited by our imagination,
Gdez

I have been looking at one for my bouncer but the best price I got on it so far was $1800. That alot of money right now. But if the bouncer works out,which it is, I'll probably invest in it.
The only problem is if you buy that guys plans for the "Living machine" you cannot disclose them publicly. So we worked out some plans for it (No digital physics model yet) so we can hand them out when we open source.
There is alot of info out on the theory an working operation of the thing.

Its neat stuff when you get to looking at it.

The Living machine is one way the 2 stage oscillator can be enhanced. That and riding swing for an adult you could light your house up.

Matt

[kcarring]

Matt,

What are your thoughts on the difference between complete rotation as in the bouncer vs. the back and forth pendulum effect of the original design concept. I wonder about the energy required by the final "breakover" - that is from 9pm to 12 pm if illustrated on a clock.

Thanks

@Aaron Thanks for your input on energy loops. It took a while for me to understand it, the free energy community has been blacklisted for it's association with overunity, and yet overunity has ambuigity in itself, it's not even really a word, which gets back to another post of your's on "language". A fascinating thing on it's own. I remember myself, being totally baffled and making posts years ago like "You need to close the loop to prove your work". It's so easy to fall into that stupid realm of thought. The best way I try to explain it to myself, now, is: Did they need to pump the water back to reservoir and then divert the river, in order to prove the hydro electric dam was running COP>1, or would that be pointless, and eventually settle, and stop... do to various energy losses in the process? And even if they could through highly efficient pumps and piping and impossible means of 100% efficiency, what would be left over to "tap" out? (in terms of electricity). Obviously, a lot less than if they hadn't of bothered. Which is why they didn't. Not to mention the cost, time, and futility/stupidity of the thought in the first place. Yet, once built, it obviously produces far more power than required to operate, and thus is way over COP=1.

[Matthew Jones]

Matt,

What are your thoughts on the difference between complete rotation as in the bouncer vs. the back and forth pendulum effect of the original design concept. I wonder about the energy required by the final "breakover" - that is from 9pm to 12 pm if illustrated on a clock.
Thanks

If you store energy in the spring on the way down some of that of that energy is returned from the natural action of the spring.
Its all just balancing act. If you don't take to much you make whole lot more in the long run.

Part of the problem using Milkovic's system with a motor it looses its abilty to have cop greater than 1. Because the 2 stage oscillation is gone. 1 rotation turns into 1 oscilation.
The bouncer (as proposed in the concept video) not only gets 2 oscillations from one rotation but the it make it easier to do by making both pendulums balance out into 1 flywheel type weight.

I am not going to talk anymore about it though. We have a few things to finish then people will see.

Matt

[kcarring]

Thanks

Thanks Matt. It all helps, for sure. Great work you're doing there.

[Gdez]

@kcarring,

"I'm also curious what people think about the potential to use a dynamo on the hammering end, would it look like a compression dynamo (flashlight) or would it be pneumatic... tesla turbine?"

I thought about something like matts' setup, but instead of springs, using an airshock with checkvalves and put the air output to drive a tesla turbine attached to the flywheel. You might have to get it going first though, depending on how much weight is on the flywheel. I've read that the tesla turbines don't have a lot of torque and without a heavy inital blast of pressure, the whole thing might not want to start. On my setup I thought that putting to little water pumps where the springs are would be cool, but I can't play with water in the garage right now, it's too cold out there.

Anyway, I liked your ideas about COS, it's a problem for alot of people that just don't have the room to do alot of the scaled up stuff. Plus the money thing.

@matt
I was wondering where I can find some of the stuff you read about the living energy machine. Also when you finish the bouncer project, can you send the team of engineers you must be hiding in your garage over to my place? The pay won't be good, but they'll defintely be fed well.
Can't wait to see the new bouncer.

@all
I don't really care if the TSMO is cop>1 or not, it sure is fun to build these things!

[kcarring]

[QUOTE=Gdez;128438]@kcarring,

"I'm also curious what people think about the potential to use a dynamo on the hammering end, would it look like a compression dynamo (flashlight) or would it be pneumatic... tesla turbine?"

Honestly, i don't know. My suspicion is that this system is best for a pump. A deep well pump. So many other small version applications could be done though too. Like stamp/cutting for instance - other forms of fabricating.

It has really opened my mind. As far as power, goes the AOGFG (or here) and the Mikhail Dmitriev Gravity Wheel may offer similar but easier routes to COP>1 power generation. I'd love to hear Aaron's thoughts on those.

Being a wind and solar guy, gravity assistance seems to be a natural winner. It's a force we know for sure is there, many old farm implements are leverage or gravity assist.

I love to tinker with electronics, but it is just that: tinkering. I'm more mechanical - I am currently interested most in stretching watts so to speak. Get them initially from solar and wind, somehow mechanically amplify that with gravity assist, and use Bedini tech and Tesla switching to augment it all. The other stuff: Peter Lindemann / Lockridge etc... it's interesting to me, but at the end of the day if it's a real foggy road, I wait till the weather clears up. Leave the dream machine design to the dream team so to speak, I'm all about getting the watts rollin' and back to gardening and fishin - playing with my kid

This gravity stuff has be very intrigued though I must say. It has been the clear winner for 2010. Big numbers for sure.

[Matthew Jones]

@matt
I was wondering where I can find some of the stuff you read about the living energy machine. Also when you finish the bouncer project, can you send the team of engineers you must be hiding in your garage over to my place? The pay won't be good, but they'll defintely be fed well.
Can't wait to see the new bouncer.

You can find the link to the web page for the living machine on the youtube description. Technik im Einklang mit der Natur; - home;
From there you can find the name of the guy who's work its based on. Felix Würth, and do search. Lots of things come up including some patents.
Let me add this...The living machine that is shown will need to incorporate an output shaft and gear set to be usable.
The team of engineers would be and my neighbor/best friend. I'm not going anywhere.

Matt

[Gdez]

Gravity wheel

i don't know about the aogfg, but I like the gravity wheel by Demetriev. Seems like it got a lot of bad press, but to me it looks like with some heavier weights the thing would have to produce some decent torque. Seems like it would be pretty easy to build too. I'll admit that I really like the bedini stuff, but, like you things get a little foggy for me. I try to focus on things that Not only I can build, but that other people can do too, and I like the KISS mentality. I like gravity ideas too, It's free and there's plenty of it to go around. Don't worry, soon, when fuel prices scyrocket up to $5.00+ a gallon, they'll be a lot more people jumping on the gravity bandwagon.

[Gdez]

Thanks matt

Thanks matt