Veljko Milkovic' - 2 Stage Oscillator Violates 3rd Law of Motion

[kcarring]

I have a lot of faith in Matt's path. Earlier this evening a friend of mine invited me over to watch Energy From The Vacuum #14, which is must view documentary, and about 1:15 into it, Walter Rosenthal discusses the pitfalls of measuring "overunity" devices. It was a bit of a wake up call for me. He talks about the inherent energy savings by pulsing a DC circuit in the megahertz range compared to running lights (as a measure of output) on AC current. He explains how street lamps could be operated at 33% of their current draw, simply by pulsing and how, often, coil pulsed circuits are not overunity at all, rather they are energy saver circuits and the output measuring mechanisms are tainted by inaccurate consideration of what actually happens during pulsing/frequency change. He is an X-engineer / Rocket Scientist for Lockheed Martin, and has about 30,000 into test equipment. He was pretty closely connected to Floyd Sweet's work.

All in all, it's substantially easier to get "fooled" by circuitry, than by mechanical COP gains. If you've ever questioned the gains possible by gravity, I invite you to do this:

In state fairs they have this ride, it's amazing, I forget the name, but.. basically a small motor (and yes it's pretty darn small, I was shocked!) winds up an enormous bungee to the top of two arms, stretching it by use of mechanical gear advantage. once stretched, the thing hurls a huge steel cage full of people in the air about 140'. Once they peak, of course, they then fall... but they do about 5 bounces back up... the first being almost as high as their initial height, maybe 100 ft.

If you stand by the thing and watch it all, you seen realize, when two systems are disconnected creating a cause and effect - gravity power is unbelievably high in COP.

[Gdez]

I like what you are saying about the ride thing. So if you shoot up several hundred pounds up real high, say 100', then catch it at the top. Put it into gear and let it do work on the way down, do you think that the power that you get from the gears would be more then it took to slingshot it up. Interesting thought. I'm sure I'm getting ready to have some people telling me "No Way", but like you said "it was a suprisingly small motor and with several hundred pounds driving a generator as it comes down it seems you could harvest a lot of power.

[Aaron]

self running not needed

Did they need to pump the water back to reservoir and then divert the river, in order to prove the hydro electric dam was running COP>1

Good point, refrigerators and other heat pumps systems are over 1.0 cop
and this is common knowledge in the industry and they don't have to be
self running in order to be accepted as being over 1.0 cop.

[Aaron]

Gravity wheels

It has really opened my mind. As far as power, goes the AOGFG (or here) and the Mikhail Dmitriev Gravity Wheel may offer similar but easier routes to COP>1 power generation. I'd love to hear Aaron's thoughts on those.

I have no idea. There are so many of these things posted but nobody has
ever duplicated any of them to my knowledge.

This however seems to be real: YouTube - G-Force Rotational machine
I was in touch with an individual involved with this a couple years ago
but have no details to share.

[Aaron]

my recovery idea

That living machine is pretty awesome. It could accomplish what I was
thinking if it can work. What I mean is that by the vid, there is no shaft
to tap that strong rotational energy is there? And the outer circumference
of the 3 discs are constantly rotating so there can't be a fixed ring or
anything. I didn't look at it that close but that is what it appears to be.

Anyway, in concept, that machine is a one way freewheeling bicycle wheel
on steroids - but with no fixed ring or shaft or is there?

One idea I had with the Veljko machine is to tap the motion from the shaft
that the large hammer pivots on. It obviously doesn't rotate back and forth
very much but my idea was to put a monster gear or pulley there - would
only have to be a pie piece at the bottom.

That large pulley or gear would be connected to a bicycle's small one
way freewheeling gear so that that small rocking motion of the hammer
pivot shaft could get a wheel going faster such as the concept you see
in the living energy machine but it won't be going as strong as that of
course.

Magnets would charge coils around it's circumference magneto style to
charge some caps. When caps get to x voltage, they discharge to a coil
that is mounted so that when it is pulsed it repels or attracts a magnet
on the pendulum.

I haven't tested this but was just an idea I wanted to share so I have no
idea how effective it would be.

That is just another bucket dipper system without closing the loop.
River running by, taking bits of the potential bit by bit in the form of
electrical power then dumping that back to the mechanical system,
apparently satisfying Mike's parameter as well, I think.

This way, there could possibly be a self runner but the loop remains
completely open.

The bicycle wheel turning one direction would continue to spin in one
direction even when the shaft cocks back in the opposite direction also
leaving the input to the bicycle wheel detached from the rotational work
the wheel is doing.

[kcarring]

Interesting idea. I have imagined permanent magnet alternators that are only "a piece of pie if you will". Probably already done. If they cut the magnetic fields in one direction, then reverse their direction, and cut the fields in the opposite direction, they should then provide a low frequency 1 phase AC, no? If the strength of that setup (magnet wise) is basically enormous, even if the frequency is low... you are still inducing large current. Given a large Milkovic setup, one would think you'd have real good "strength" in the force available to you. So in this example you wouldn't possible be able to physically by hand, operate the alternator it would impose large magnetic "lock down", but the machine could. Because of the two stage oscillation concept - that force required, does not impose of the energy source whatsoever, I figure the pendulum would continue to sway until such a time it could overcome the forced required. At the end of each alternator "stroke" you might also employ spring to help the process "return". Hope that makes some sort of sense.

* I see this at the end of the hammer. The hammer pounds down on the sharp end of a piece of pie. Further up the slice of pie is a pivot point. So, on a down stroke, the hammerhead forces the fat end of the piece of pie "up" cutting the field lines. As the hammer head lifts away from the sharp end of the pie. Simultaneously a spring (heavy spring) forces the pie shaped alternator BACK through the induction cyle. From there, the process repeat. i see it as low Voltage, Low Frequency, high amperage current. Perfect for Hydrogen production. electrolysis requires only 2v at high amps

[Michael John Nunnerley]

That living machine is pretty awesome. It could accomplish what I was
thinking if it can work. What I mean is that by the vid, there is no shaft
to tap that strong rotational energy is there? And the outer circumference
of the 3 discs are constantly rotating so there can't be a fixed ring or
anything. I didn't look at it that close but that is what it appears to be.

Anyway, in concept, that machine is a one way freewheeling bicycle wheel
on steroids - but with no fixed ring or shaft or is there?

One idea I had with the Veljko machine is to tap the motion from the shaft
that the large hammer pivots on. It obviously doesn't rotate back and forth
very much but my idea was to put a monster gear or pulley there - would
only have to be a pie piece at the bottom.

That large pulley or gear would be connected to a bicycle's small one
way freewheeling gear so that that small rocking motion of the hammer
pivot shaft could get a wheel going faster such as the concept you see
in the living energy machine but it won't be going as strong as that of
course.

Magnets would charge coils around it's circumference magneto style to
charge some caps. When caps get to x voltage, they discharge to a coil
that is mounted so that when it is pulsed it repels or attracts a magnet
on the pendulum.

I haven't tested this but was just an idea I wanted to share so I have no
idea how effective it would be.

That is just another bucket dipper system without closing the loop.
River running by, taking bits of the potential bit by bit in the form of
electrical power then dumping that back to the mechanical system,
apparently satisfying Mike's parameter as well, I think.

This way, there could possibly be a self runner but the loop remains
completely open.

The bicycle wheel turning one direction would continue to spin in one
direction even when the shaft cocks back in the opposite direction also
leaving the input to the bicycle wheel detached from the rotational work
the wheel is doing.

Aaron

Yes you are right it will fit into my parameter, anything that changes the type of energy to another and then feed it back.

There has just been a post by Dr, Stiffler which is interesting using AV plugs.
The magnetic flux lines of the earth CAN be used to extract extra energy depending on the orientation and one thing I have found is the frequency makes a difference in the system that I use, this does make a self runner and I am still looking into why as I do not have all the answers yet.

Mike

[Gdez]

Feltonberger Pendulum pump

@Aaron,
"One idea I had with the Veljko machine is to tap the motion from the shaft
that the large hammer pivots on. It obviously doesn't rotate back and forth
very much but my idea was to put a monster gear or pulley there - would
only have to be a pie piece at the bottom."

This seems to be how the gap water pump guys have their TSMO setup. Similar idea , anyway. Just getting your secondary oscillation a different way or adding a third oscillation, depending on the setup your trying.

[Aaron]

Veljko Milkovic recovery idea

Here's some goofy old drawings from last year sometime showing the idea.
One has a generator on the shaft that might give low frequency ac.

Anyway, shows the point:

[FRC]

System

Aaron

Yes you are right it will fit into my parameter, anything that changes the type of energy to another and then feed it back.

There has just been a post by Dr, Stiffler which is interesting using AV plugs.
The magnetic flux lines of the earth CAN be used to extract extra energy depending on the orientation and one thing I have found is the frequency makes a difference in the system that I use, this does make a self runner and I am still looking into why as I do not have all the answers yet.

Mike

I had just read the Dr, Stiffler post before I read yours. I am curious about:
..." in the system that I use " ... What is the system that you use ? Or is it
a secret ?

FRC

[kcarring]

Here's some goofy old drawings from last year sometime showing the idea.
One has a generator on the shaft that might give low frequency ac.

In the middle diagram, lower depiction you have a larger gear driving another smaller gear that is placed above. That one seems to make sense to me in the sense that the upper gear will have a higher degree of rotation per cycle, do you see it as a PMA and that it'd be multiple coils but 1 phase with the flux lines cut one way, then a reversal takes place, polarity switch in the opposite? Or do you see it as 3 phase, etc.

[Aaron]

charging method

In the middle diagram, lower depiction you have a larger gear driving another smaller gear that is placed above. That one seems to make sense to me in the sense that the upper gear will have a higher degree of rotation per cycle, do you see it as a PMA and that it'd be multiple coils but 1 phase with the flux lines cut one way, then a reversal takes place, polarity switch in the opposite? Or do you see it as 3 phase, etc.

Their all big gears on the shaft driving a small gear except for the first
top imagine on the 2nd image.

The small gear could be below the shaft too depending but in any case,
yes - large gear on shaft with small shaft movement will be able to
translate to more rotation on a small gear on a wheel for example.

The generator part is whatever works good. Simple concept
is bicycle wheel for example would have magnets around it that would
induce current into coils - simple test is to have a single coil under the
wheel's magnets like an SG or something. I don't know what I'd try first
as this is just a general idea.

It could switch polarity or not - just whatever makes the cap charge
enough to give a coil a sufficient bang to attract or repel a magnet on
the pendulum to get it to the highest point it can go.

I know there IS an optimum way to translate that rotational motion to
the highest cap charge possible with the least work - just takes
experimentation but the collective knowledge can shorten down the
guesswork.

[Matthew Jones]

Aaron.
To extract power from the living machine you need a pipe shaft extending from one of the outer gear retainer. He marks them as Planeten-Trager (Planetary carrier) in the begining of the video. The shaft would need to be a pipe with a bearing inside to carry the center driving shaft. Then you could pull the power from this like a flywheel.
Also if you look up Felix Würth or go here, he had a simple design that only used 2 outer gears.

I believe the living machine to be alot more stable though.

And in using it you would not want to hook it to the center of 2 stage oscillator. You would to hook it to the output end. The gear assembly and the center point will short out the effect of the pendulum on the other end.
Any resistance at the pivot has a negative outcome.

Cheers
Matt

[kcarring]

I know there IS an optimum way to translate that rotational motion to
the highest cap charge possible with the least work - just takes
experimentation but the collective knowledge can shorten down the
guesswork.

I agree and I'm just throwing around ideas in my head too. I see one of the distinct values in this whole assemble as sheer "force" value in that 2nd stage. Given that, my thoughts are that this available gain in force, due to mass of the bulkhead I shall call it (The big heavy portion being offset by stage 1) should be utilized to "do work at it's maximum" so to speak.

If I understand it correctly, no amount of resistance to that work being accomplished will affect the momentum of stage 1.

And if that statement is correct, firstly that's amazing, secondly, I'm thinking we need not worry whether stage 1 "can handle it" (it's aftereffect of producing one cycle) rather we are only concerned whether the available disruption, the force that which "rocks the boat" so to speak, is strong enough to accomplish one "stroke" on the bulkhead.

So, having said that, I see this thing as a huge radial piston, basically. It's stroke is very short, and it's cycle is not smooth like a sinusoidal wave for example.

Given that, I somehow perceive this as still able to accomplish many things, but of interest at the moment (in my drawing) is to break the magnetic field created by a magnet against a coil. If the magnet was really quite large, and the coil of heavy guage copper, I still see the ability break and cut those flux lines, and my limited electrical knowledge makes me assume the result with be high current, low frequency if accomplished.

In your design I see a second transmission using gears, which i can think can work, and my point today is that I also envision another scenario wherein a second transmission of sorts takes place as well, but on the absolute front end, where I feel the most leverage is available, possibly the highest power point.

I may have this all wrong, it's just a picture I have in my mind of how to break an incredible magnetic lock not otherwise "doable" by human force, repetitively with min. energy in to sustain it. And I somehow imagine the current created useful in brute force electrolysis given it's 2v large current low frequency parameters.

I imagine quite the neodymium magnet assembly. No thought into shapes, curve, ideal strokes, magnet size vs. coil size, nor positioning... just a completely crude look at how I see a very strange rotor/stator setup for this.

I apologize for the horrendous drawing. If people think this has merit I'll start playing in 3d, but first I need some criticism.

I also need to understand what creates the voltage in such a system. I understand the current aspects, the frequencies, but I don't understand how voltage is derived other than a guess that is is a function of frequency and current?! I don't know.

[kcarring]

The biggest thing I do not like about my drawing is that, once again I see the same weakness, in that you've taken a beautiful maximized device and reduced it to an output that still reduces force; in that my lever is all wrong. The hammer is on the short end of the lever, and I see that as a problem.

In the Feltenberger Pendulum, you have a nice translation of rotary amplified force translated to linear force. I must say I like that concept, and if instead of pumping with that force, you accomplished a linear shift of plates positioned over one another, one side with magnets, the other side coils, you may accomplish a great deal of current.

Interesting as well, is the idea of trying to do this all with a true 3 stage oscillation in that if the final rotor/stator assemby was "deadstalled" - neither the 2nd nor the 1st stages would be stopped. If that could be done, I think we'd really have something in the true nature and beauty of this whole concept, start to finish.