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[lost66]

looks like this statement was not entirely true!
dont know what it means (this part is true, Lol), but i first connected the two windings in parallel, did not really notice the difference (does seem to spin a litbit faster, or might have more torque? or something) . then i connected them in series, now there is action in the neon. not continuous but it sparks now and then, and sometimes a few times in succession (this is only true because i was using a neon without resister, one with resister lights up with all of the combinations). the fan also runs a lot slower
i am now at a point where i can connect the 2 primer windings in almost any combination, but got no clue as to what is right or wrong, good or bad.
i dont see any problem with the trigger winding but wans again good or bad, i dont have the foggiest.(true)
ust a note on the neon, as i have said b 4, i took the resister out that was on the 1 lead of the neon.
i had a look at a few things that used a neon and they all have a resister.
with the neon still in place, i took another 1 with resister, and connected it in parallel, it has a constant glow in the circuit (but, did that with all winding options) where as the other one sparks erratically (i can only think that the volts went up, when i connected the windings in series, because when i did that, the neon without resister would start to react)

[lost66]

i would suggest that having the windings in parallel would give me a better COP
it looks as if it uses less amps when running @ the slower speeds (than when using 1 winding), but i still cant say which way round will charge a battery better.
i am trying to charge a 12v 2amp hour battery that was dead. with the whole setup running @ the slower speed, i get about 10v (little less @ faster speeds), and when i disconnect the battery it goes down to about 6.5V and seems to drop slowly. if i put a 12v relay on it, it drops to .238v

[lost66]

sorry series!! not parallel!

[lost66]

another thing,
when i connect the 12v battery to charge, the neon continues to glow, but when i put the 6v battery on to charge then the neon goes off.
does this mean that the 12v battery is buggered or???

[blackchisel97]

Neon warning

Hi lost66,

Consider neon light as "O ****!" warning not an indicator. Steady neon means that there isn't enough load @ the output - either, battery has very high impedance (possibly plates thick covered with sulfuric salt, which isn't conductive) or there is no load - disconnected battery, faulty connector, wire etc. Do you know status of your battery? Did you try to charge using conventional charger?


Vtech

[Sephiroth]

Hi lost66,

Consider neon light as "O ****!" warning


Vtech

Nicely put

[lost66]

Nicely put

the battery was dead, under a volt

[lost66]

it is just over 6v now, and when i connect a 12v relay 2 it, it drops 2 just over 2v

[lost66]

Hi lost66,

Consider neon light as "O ****!" warning not an indicator. Steady neon means that there isn't enough load @ the output - either, battery has very high impedance (possibly plates thick covered with sulfuric salt, which isn't conductive) or there is no load - disconnected battery, faulty connector, wire etc. Do you know status of your battery? Did you try to charge using conventional charger?


Vtech

O ****! i think the 12v battery's plates have a thick cover of sulfuric salt,
i am now running the fan off the 6v battery that has bean charging, to discharge it (the 6v looks good

[blackchisel97]

If battery was under 1V and maintains 2V under relay load it means that reverse lead ion movement inside a battery has been initiated. Just because battery shows 6V it doesn't mean that she can power a load yet. Until you're certain that spike going to the battery has proper shape there is still couple variables to consider. If your battery is 6V, I would keep charging until reads 7.2 -7.5V. Than let it rest for an hour and discharge with C20, which means - take Ah value marked on your battery and divide by 20. This will give you healthy discharge rate. For example:

Battery rated Ah______C20 rate of discharge(A)______Max 12V load(Watts)

___1.2_____________________0.06___________________ _____0.72_______
___4_______________________0.20___________________ _____2.4_______
___7_______________________0.35___________________ _____4.2_______
__12_______________________0.60___________________ _____7.2_______
__20_______________________1.0____________________ ____12.0_______


Vtech

[lost66]

If battery was under 1V and maintains 2V under relay load it means that reverse lead ion movement inside a battery has been initiated. Just because battery shows 6V it doesn't mean that she can power a load yet. Until you're certain that spike going to the battery has proper shape there is still couple variables to consider. If your battery is 6V, I would keep charging until reads 7.2 -7.5V. Than let it rest for an hour and discharge with C20, which means - take Ah value marked on your battery and divide by 20. This will give you healthy discharge rate. For example:

Battery rated Ah______C20 rate of discharge(A)______Max 12V load(Watts)

___1.2_____________________0.06___________________ _____0.72_______
___4_______________________0.20___________________ _____2.4_______
___7_______________________0.35___________________ _____4.2_______
__12_______________________0.60___________________ _____7.2_______
__20_______________________1.0____________________ ____12.0_______


Vtech

i am glad 2 hear that there could still b hope 4 the battery. it is a 12v 2ampH thou, not 6v
just had a look at another battery, that is in the same condition as what this 1 was, it is reading 52mV

[blackchisel97]

Keep in mind that SLA (sealed lead acid or gel) batteries since they dry there is not much hope. I tested couple dozens and some are just no hope. Not every battery can be rejuvenated.


Vtech

[lost66]

i am glad 2 hear that there could still b hope 4 the battery. it is a 12v 2ampH thou, not 6v
just had a look at another battery, that is in the same condition as what this 1 was, it is reading 52mV

i have no clue if the spike going to the battery has proper shape and i probably need more info on the variables to consider.

[lost66]

i am glad 2 hear that there could still b hope 4 the battery. it is a 12v 2ampH thou, not 6v
just had a look at another battery, that is in the same condition as what this 1 was, it is reading 52mV

Keep in mind that SLA (sealed lead acid or gel) batteries since they dry there is not much hope. I tested couple dozens and some are just no hope. Not every battery can be rejuvenated.


Vtech

i dont think i should wast my time on them. i could try put 700Amps through them
the 6v battery that i have on charge has not gone over 6.6v yet, i will leave it over night and c tomorrow (oops it is tomorrow, already for 2 hours)

[blackchisel97]

I assume (I hate that word) that you don't have oscilloscope but there are other ways. To tune this and similar J.B circuit you have to find so called "sweet spot". This is done by monitoring input current and watching speed of the rotor. There will be a spot when speed will suddenly increase and input current drop. You shouldn't aim for highest speed but fine balance between highest speed and lowest current. Another way is so called "1 Ohm test" - you have to get 1 Ohm resistor (can be few connected parallel) and use as a load, instead of charging battery. Voltage measured across the resistor should be under 1V, typically under or near 0.5V. Over 1V means too much current going to the battery. During test resistor shouldn't get hot.
There is a free software - Visual Analiser, which has a scope, spectrum analiser, voltmeter, frequency counter and wave generator. I used this before I got my scope. You can make a test probe using shielded wire - same kind which is used for microphones or any audio connections. To protect your PC use 10 MOhm resistor in series with center wire and solder short lead with alligator clip to the shielding. Connect shielding wire to the ground (neg) of your circuit and "hot" to the collector of your transistor. I posted scope shots in Solid State Oscillators thread. You should tune it to see only one spike (h in shape) not multiple.


Vtech