Free Energy At Last Step By Step Must See

[Brian Wilson]

Thanks mbrownn. If I understand you correctly, I need to run 6 or more cycles of charge/discharge before I should be able to get more volts to charge than I lose from my source. If I can never get that, then I really don't have overunity, right?

I rewired one of the Conair fans with 28 awg wire. I first removed the small posts b/t the four coil posts. I could get more winds with the small posts out of the way. The one power coil is 350 turns. The other three coils are 324 turns each of #28. No bifolar. This gives me three times the turns/wire of trigger than power. The fan doesn't run as smooth. The magnets pull on the four posts. Now I know why those little posts were there.

I just finished it. My meter won't measure amps. Perhaps the spikes blew it out. A new(?) phenomenon I noticed is when I went to hook up the charge battery when the fan was running. I got sparks as I hooked it up. I never noticed this before.

I'm running a charge right now. However my charge and source battery are near fully charged already. I'll let it run for an hour then hook up one of my other fans to drain one of the batteries and do another charge.

[mbrownn]

Thanks mbrownn. If I understand you correctly, I need to run 6 or more cycles of charge/discharge before I should be able to get more volts to charge than I lose from my source. If I can never get that, then I really don't have overunity, right?

I rewired one of the Conair fans with 28 awg wire. I first removed the small posts b/t the four coil posts. I could get more winds with the small posts out of the way. The one power coil is 350 turns. The other three coils are 324 turns each of #28. No bifolar. This gives me three times the turns/wire of trigger than power. The fan doesn't run as smooth. The magnets pull on the four posts. Now I know why those little posts were there.

I just finished it. My meter won't measure amps. Perhaps the spikes blew it out. A new(?) phenomenon I noticed is when I went to hook up the charge battery when the fan was running. I got sparks as I hooked it up. I never noticed this before.

I'm running a charge right now. However my charge and source battery are near fully charged already. I'll let it run for an hour then hook up one of my other fans to drain one of the batteries and do another charge.

Not quite right.

All lead acid batteries suffer from sulphation build up and this reduces the batteries capacity. The Bedini charging gets rid of the sulphation and therefore recovers capacity back to what it should be. I find that after i have charged a battery six times on a Bedini charger it does not usually recover much more so six charges is just a guide on recovering batteries.

The type of overunity you get with the fan is not all in the electrical. As I said you can expect better than 90% charge rate that is the charging is less than the draw off the supply. The motor is running all be it weakly, when you add the power in the charge to the power of the motor now you have more than 100% or overunity. The charging alone is not enough.

The small posts on the stator are there to improve motor efficiency and so if you are looking for maximum overunity they are best left in place but they only have a small effect so don't worry too much about them.

Let me know if I understand this correctly, you have one of the posts wired as the power coil and three as the trigger all wound with a single wire?

I don't think that will work very well, too many losses.

The most efficient is all four segments wound bifillar in series with cw acw cw and acw windings.

If you have it running well there will be little amps on the output, that is normal. In fact if you do the watts calculation of the output compared to how much the charge has put in you will find the charge battery has many more watts of power in it than the charge watts put in it by the fan. This is what has the electricians scratching their heads.

If you measure the electrical output of the fan and add it to the mechanical you still have less output than input yet the battery still charges with 90+% efficiency. The overunity gain is in the battery so you need to measure what you can get out of the charged battery and add that to the mechanical power to see the overunity.

Only use analog meters to measure amps as digital meters give false readings.

Yes you will get sparks and this is dangerous. Always make connections and disconnections with the fan stopped. The sparks are enough to not only shock you but they can and do ignite hydrogen gas given off by the batteries, trust me you don't want a battery explosion. I exploded a 4Ah battery doing exactly this, it sounded like a gun shot and pieces of battery and the acid flew everywhere. I was covered in it but luckily none went in my eyes.

[Khwartz]

No blades fans / Near no mechanical drag fans

Hi mbrownn ! Hi Brian Wilson!

If I don't post much, I continue to follow your progresses, and reading you both I had an idea coming:

- What about to cut the blades of the fans to make then run with near no mechanical drag?

Cheers, Khwartz.

[FRC]

slider2732 has been doing this. He has a lot of good videos using a fan with the
blades cut off.

George

[Brian Wilson]

My batteries are new. Small 12V 12aH lead acid motercycle bats. The one I originally charged with a conventional battery charger and the other I charged with my first bedini fan.

The fan I had last built is wound with 28 awg wire. One post is just for the source. There is one contiguous wire on just one post. As it turns out this is ample to run the fan. The other three posts are wound with 28 awg, single wire. This is the trigger wire. By doing it this way I can get more trigger wire, and I'm assuming more radiant energy, than a bifoler. I might as you mention lose efficiency because of it but it should be a significant impromement over the Imhotep design. I can't answer yet whether that is true or not.

As to cutting off the fan blades: I had thought about that myself but thought I had read of someone doing that and he found out he needed the drag. If slide 2732 has had good luck with that I might try it. Afterall I have three identical fans that I can mix and match parts.

Ok, back to my tutorial. It seems I'm a bit slow here. I thought that this set up produced enough radiant to actually create more energy in the form of stored electricity than it used to generate it, even with the loss in mechanical work. If I understand you (mbrownn) correctly while we are getting overunity the efficiency isn't enough to actually be able to create enough electricity to have a net gain.

Is Bedini's design more efficient and therefor he is actually able to get greater charge than his losses on the source battery? What about the Muller dynamo design? Is that producing the same radiant spikes? I heard that Romaro had a design that was very good and that it was shut down, so to speak, by the ESTABLISHMENT.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions. Part of my problem is ignorance in electricity and entering a field where there is a lot of fragmented information without any overview. I need "Radiant Energy for Dummies". Aside from some solar cells and small electric motors when I was a kid I don't know much.

[mbrownn]

Hi mbrownn ! Hi Brian Wilson!

If I don't post much, I continue to follow your progresses, and reading you both I had an idea coming:

- What about to cut the blades of the fans to make then run with near no mechanical drag?

Cheers, Khwartz.

Tried that, there was no advantage

[mbrownn]

My batteries are new. Small 12V 12aH lead acid motercycle bats. The one I originally charged with a conventional battery charger and the other I charged with my first bedini fan.

The fan I had last built is wound with 28 awg wire. One post is just for the source. There is one contiguous wire on just one post. As it turns out this is ample to run the fan. The other three posts are wound with 28 awg, single wire. This is the trigger wire. By doing it this way I can get more trigger wire, and I'm assuming more radiant energy, than a bifoler. I might as you mention lose efficiency because of it but it should be a significant impromement over the Imhotep design. I can't answer yet whether that is true or not.

As to cutting off the fan blades: I had thought about that myself but thought I had read of someone doing that and he found out he needed the drag. If slide 2732 has had good luck with that I might try it. Afterall I have three identical fans that I can mix and match parts.

Ok, back to my tutorial. It seems I'm a bit slow here. I thought that this set up produced enough radiant to actually create more energy in the form of stored electricity than it used to generate it, even with the loss in mechanical work. If I understand you (mbrownn) correctly while we are getting overunity the efficiency isn't enough to actually be able to create enough electricity to have a net gain.

Is Bedini's design more efficient and therefor he is actually able to get greater charge than his losses on the source battery? What about the Muller dynamo design? Is that producing the same radiant spikes? I heard that Romaro had a design that was very good and that it was shut down, so to speak, by the ESTABLISHMENT.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions. Part of my problem is ignorance in electricity and entering a field where there is a lot of fragmented information without any overview. I need "Radiant Energy for Dummies". Aside from some solar cells and small electric motors when I was a kid I don't know much.

This thread is in fact radiant energy for dummies.

The trigger circuit is in fact a loss in the system as is any resistance you want the trigger to be as small as possible allowing more to go out to the charging battery.

The circuit we are using is the SIMPLIFIED school girl circuit. If you use the school girl circuit ie more than two wires with a bridge rectifier you do get what you are looking for but there are two very big draw backs.

1 the overunity in the battery is only seen on resistive loads so swapping the batteries back to the source will give the same results as you have now but draining the battery with a bulb you will see the overunity.

2 your battery will crystallize and become useless after a number of cycles.

This forced John to develop a cap pulsing circuit like you see on his patent.

I don't know enough about Muller or Romaro so maybe someone else will answer that.

[Khwartz]

No blades fans + Romero's Muller Dyn

Hi guys! Thanks a lot for having answering me about "no blade fans", and as the results are not conclusive, I think would great the day someone will be able to exactly explain why it's work like this, why the drag looks to be necessary?

For Romero's Muller Dyn, I very follow a thread elswhere and I can't say if it was really working, even if vids looks to say "yes".

Few are working hard to try to replicate it, or at least to make something approaching but working with a overunity COP, even one having personally known Muller, but still hard to reach a significant result, even if many progresses very fortunalty occurs regularly. I think yet too much speculation on what he really did, and could be just because there were some critical aspects Romero didn't see or said about his own replication of the Muller's Dyn.

Cheers.

[Brian Wilson]

no blades

I cut the blades off. The result was that I couldn't control the speed. I would adjust the pot and it would run ok for a maybe 15 seconds. Then the fan would take off like a bat out of hell. I finally gave up because I couln't control the speed. Evidently the blades (drage) acts like a govener on a moter.

I unwound my source coil to 76 turns (from 350). The fan runs fine though I need to adjust the pot over a larger range from starting it to final adjustment. I am using a 1.2 K pot and a resistor so I can get finer control of resistance than I could with a larger pot.

I can only measure up to 150 mA. Previously I was cranking out about 50 mA. Now I am charging somewhere well over the 150 mA mark.

I'm not done tweeking yet. I can get many more wind on the trigger coils if I reconfigure the armature a bit. I will also use the extra space on the source coil to add trigger wire. I expect to get a third more trigger wire on the new design. I also will shift from using 26 awg to 28 awg, which should give me more winds right there.

Any advice on whether the 26 or 28 would work better?

I'll have to wait for amp meters and 28 awg wire. I just ordered it today.

Before I unwound some of the source wire I charged my gel bat with my ATV bat. I gained 0.73 volts in net charge. The gel bat is smaller in size and amp hours so I don't know how significant this is.

The same fan with the reduced source coil wind did poorly in an hour and 20 minute charge. I couldn't adjust the light/speed properly. When I adjusted for the brightest light and hooked up the charge battery the fan sped up. Normally, the fan slows down when I hook a charge bat to it. I adjusted to slow the fan down but don't know how that effected my neons, or source and charge amps. After charging the net charge was -0.22V. I'll measure again when the bats settle down to a stable volt.

[mbrownn]

Hi guys! Thanks a lot for having answering me about "no blade fans", and as the results are not conclusive, I think would great the day someone will be able to exactly explain why it's work like this, why the drag looks to be necessary?

For Romero's Muller Dyn, I very follow a thread elswhere and I can't say if it was really working, even if vids looks to say "yes".

Few are working hard to try to replicate it, or at least to make something approaching but working with a overunity COP, even one having personally known Muller, but still hard to reach a significant result, even if many progresses very fortunalty occurs regularly. I think yet too much speculation on what he really did, and could be just because there were some critical aspects Romero didn't see or said about his own replication of the Muller's Dyn.

Cheers.

The duty cycle of the fan is 50% pulsing 50% not pulsing so the speed has no effect on what the fan is doing and the motor is running at the same power regardless of speed. the disadvantage is wear of the bearing and that the fan may self destruct.

[mbrownn]

I cut the blades off. The result was that I couldn't control the speed. I would adjust the pot and it would run ok for a maybe 15 seconds. Then the fan would take off like a bat out of hell. I finally gave up because I couln't control the speed. Evidently the blades (drage) acts like a govener on a moter.

I unwound my source coil to 76 turns (from 350). The fan runs fine though I need to adjust the pot over a larger range from starting it to final adjustment. I am using a 1.2 K pot and a resistor so I can get finer control of resistance than I could with a larger pot.

I can only measure up to 150 mA. Previously I was cranking out about 50 mA. Now I am charging somewhere well over the 150 mA mark.

I'm not done tweeking yet. I can get many more wind on the trigger coils if I reconfigure the armature a bit. I will also use the extra space on the source coil to add trigger wire. I expect to get a third more trigger wire on the new design. I also will shift from using 26 awg to 28 awg, which should give me more winds right there.

Any advice on whether the 26 or 28 would work better?

I'll have to wait for amp meters and 28 awg wire. I just ordered it today.

Before I unwound some of the source wire I charged my gel bat with my ATV bat. I gained 0.73 volts in net charge. The gel bat is smaller in size and amp hours so I don't know how significant this is.

The same fan with the reduced source coil wind did poorly in an hour and 20 minute charge. I couldn't adjust the light/speed properly. When I adjusted for the brightest light and hooked up the charge battery the fan sped up. Normally, the fan slows down when I hook a charge bat to it. I adjusted to slow the fan down but don't know how that effected my neons, or source and charge amps. After charging the net charge was -0.22V. I'll measure again when the bats settle down to a stable volt.

Getting the most out of the fan is counter intuitive, we do not want amps on the output, in fact the lower the better. What we want is volts in the spike and this is what we tune for.

Resistance is a loss so we want as low a resistance as possible in the power coil, this means as large a wire as you can but you also need sufficient turns so that you can run the motor. I would go to #26 wire for the power coil and 28 for the trigger.

Batteries like to be charged and discharged slowly, that is at the C20 rate. This means that you charge a battery for 20 hours and discharge it for 20 hours, to do this your amp draw on your fan needs to be 1/20th of the amp hour rating. If your fan draws 1A then your batteries need to be 20Ah. Of course you can do it faster but we loose efficiency.

Do not overcharge gel batteries as they will die

[Khwartz]

The duty cycle of the fan is 50% pulsing 50% not pulsing so the speed has no effect on what the fan is doing and the motor is running at the same power regardless of speed. the disadvantage is wear of the bearing and that the fan may self destruct.

Do you mean that the speed is set by the electronic inside, and that is a PWM system but a fixed one?

[mbrownn]

No, the circuit is an oscillator and it will pulse at a frequency that is set by the inductance of the coil and the trigger circuit. While ever the correct pole is above the coil, it will pulse at this frequency, when it is not, there is no pulsing.

Typically a fan may pulse ten or 15 times followed by an equal amount of time with no pulsing. When you remove the fan blades the poles move faster allowing less pulses as the pole goes past but the pole that causes no pulses is also moving faster so the time with no pulses is reduced by the same amount. This means that the amount of pulses per second remains the same regardless of speed.

[t3ch]

IC 277 removed from fan, do i need to put it back up?

Hello all,

I have removed IC 277 from fan when i have winded coil around it. Now when i connect it in circle, it makea a magned on one side but it doesnt want to run...

so do i need to put that IC 277 back up?

And my diagram was without charged battery and neon bulb, so my question is . Do i need to put that in or can i run the fan without that in circuit?

Tnx for your help.

[Khwartz]

No, the circuit is an oscillator and it will pulse at a frequency that is set by the inductance of the coil and the trigger circuit. While ever the correct pole is above the coil, it will pulse at this frequency, when it is not, there is no pulsing.

Typically a fan may pulse ten or 15 times followed by an equal amount of time with no pulsing. When you remove the fan blades the poles move faster allowing less pulses as the pole goes past but the pole that causes no pulses is also moving faster so the time with no pulses is reduced by the same amount. This means that the amount of pulses per second remains the same regardless of speed.

Wow! I don't know that, mbrownn, very thanks for having specified