HHO SAFETY-Tips,Precautions,Experiences,Do's & Don'ts

[p10e]

Hi all, This thread is to pass on advice to others out there who are going to experiment and assemble HHO generators, so they can avoid bodily harm be it hearing, breathing or physical damage. Even experienced people make mistakes. Please pass on your advice and experiences.
P.S. Bad practice creates bad press.

[p10e]

Flame test

You should never test for gas with a flame. Would you light a match to see if you had gasoline in a drum? If you are to test a flame for a torch you must have spark arrestors which are easy to make and can be found with a quick search on this forum or the net. They must be used on almost all applications so make it one of the first things you do. Look at bubblers. You can use them to see your gas. If you are tempted to light the bubbles DON"T. The explosion could easily damage your ears.

[**~Imhotep~**]

great idea for safety tips ,i am trying to do similar cautions on bendini imhotep fan, education and shared experience is very important for safe experimenting.


i am about to start on hho experiment soon ,and was wondering about detecting the gas as it is produced.
is there an easy way to detect the presence of the amount of gas being produced .
i worked at amoco oil refinery in chicago area years ago and the supervisor had a meter to detect gases .is there a inexpensive way to detect or a metering device available?
i understand when charging lead acid batteries inside or outside(in shop) ventilation is important because hydrogen is produced when batteries are loaded down and or conventionally charged, but with hho we are trying to produce more gas to use on demand outside on vehicles, so ventilation is not a problem. but i want to bench test inside different methods of producing, so being able to detect the presence of any built up gases is important to me. any suggestions?

[Redmeanie]

HHO Should Always Be Ran Through At Least ONE Bubbler! THe Flash arrestors are fine close to the ignition source but you should ALWAYS Have a Bubbler As Close to The Cell as Possible. I actually mount mine on or VERY Close to any cell I have built. Trust me it's cheap and the EASIEST Way to Prevent a VERY Dangerous scenario. Plus it has that added Benefit, if you make it out of a small piece of "Clear" PVC to see what your gas production looks like. Also add the Rubber End Boots From the Plumbing Department in your hardware store to both ends and DO NOT tighten down the Clamps. This will act as a Blow-Off Valve Type Device in case a Flash Back Does Happen, Saving Your Cell.

Lets See Everyone Put In Something!

[Redmeanie]

While Working With HHO Ventilate
The best thing to do is work outside. But if your like 90% of us you can't due to nosy neighbors that would call the FBI on you, or most of the Remaining % Just are spoiled with shops with A/C and Lights, we have to find alternatives.
While indoors you should seal your Cell with 1 output hose. This hose needs to be ran out a window, make a hole, do whatever. And no the Bathroom Fan DOES NOT Count as Proper Ventilation.

Here are a FEW reasons why:

1) HHO as we know is VERY Explosive, and Unfortunately Very Lite so it will form up around your ceiling and stay there. It takes a VERY Long time to dissipate through most ceilings because of Latex Paint, insulation and other things. Then one day after running your cell for awhile, a friend comes by to visit and lights a Cigarette or something lame like that and, well I shouldn't need to tell you what the outcome will be!

2) HHO is not the Only gas produced During Electrolysis. There ARE Many "By Product" Gases produced also. The main one that CAN KILL YOU, is Chlorine gas. And yes even if you are using Distilled water it can still be created. The main reason is that store bought distilled water is NOT 100% Pure. Unless you are using Pharmaceutical grade Distilled water than its not TRULY 100% Distilled water. Also as many of the materials that we use in the cells are heated, cooled stressed and whatever else, especially plastics, will release some by products into your electrolyte.

Well Those are a couple, Im sure Im missing Some!

This is how my shop is set up. I have an old water filter case from my first smacks booster that I have mounted on the wall. I have an input side with a hose barb so I can hook up whatever cell Im working with. and the output is simply 1/2 Vinyl Tubing ran to a fitting that is mounted through my wall and out past the eves. I filled the Filter case with water and I added some Baking Soda to cut down mold growth and trap some of chemicals before release.
The Casing is the clear type so what I have done is made a Glorified Bubbler that is always ready!

See its real simple and trust me, its NOT WORTH being Half As*ed When you are Experimenting with this stuff. IT IS Dangerous, and its up to us to minimize the risks before someone gets Killed Or Seriously hurt. Then the manufacturing of these devices will be made Illegal for all of us because one person didn't want to take the 5 extra minutes it would have taken to do the same thing "Safely"!

[**~Imhotep~**]

thank you for your good advice. i waited to do my experiments and i will be heeding your warnings

it appears that our planet is mostly water and hopefully we will all be able to utilize this technique because as i understand the exhaust from this process condenses back to water with the atmosphere.(u cannot get any more less polluting than that) hopefully everybody will be safe

[WCastle]

10 years of experiments

A few friends and I have been doing experiments with water for 10 years or so and yes there is a certain amount of risk, however there is also risk with any fuel which has been oxidized, so rule 1 should be would you ignite any fuel source that has been vaporized and oxidized? if so what precautions would you take? do you really need to?

but there is another thing to consider, estes model rocket company has a hydrogen rocket kit which makes gas from water and ignites it in a safe way, a controlled method, saftey interlocks etc... in a toy!! and it is absolutely safe, it can be done safely.

If you have a natural gas or propane appliance in your home those are extremely dangerous if you were to ignite the fuel in the wrong state eg: a leaky line and a room full of air mixed together.

Stanley Meyer's methods are no doubt the most advanced in the feild, and his method was to create the gases as close to where you are going to use them as possible, reducing the risk.


So if your apperatus is not going to be safe and strong enough for igniting something such as an oxy-acetylene mix then just don't do it !

[Lemontree]

Controlled demolition (not as 911 scenario, but with hho)

also, we are considering about blowing up some older electrolyser models, and to test to blow up the new design - (design as made kumaran, jetijs an mine) - with plates in series, with vinyl washer gaskets betveen every two plates.

this will show actually how happens when electrolyser explodes. so, it will be much safer to make it explode specially, not accidentally.

these sick thoughts here are because i think, this new design are very explosive-safe, so, the worst what can happen, is that vinyl washers can be blowed out, but not a metal or plexiglass shiver must not apper. (it seems)

also, there were one experiment, when we tried to blow up a tourist tent, with propane gas from tourist cooker stove. and nothing happened, maybe because of strong wind, and weak propane flow..

[rosco1]

Basic safety should be paramount

I note that I've seen in a few instances where people are placing their HHO gens in the cabins of vehicles and sometimes in the luggage compartment.

This is a very dangerous practice and should be strongly discouraged.

Just imagine should the unit develop a leak, and something happens and the gas is ignited.

Governments could take this type of tradgedy and turn it into a reason to ban people from building HHO gens, "in the interest of public safety".

I think that safety should be paramount and proper steps should be taken to address this critical point.

[jstadwater]

Don't take the easy road!

Make sure you never take the simplest, easiest way out. TAKE THE NECESSARY TIME TO IMPLEMENT AS MANY SAFETY FEATURES AS YOU CAN APPLY!! Who cares if it's simple or easy to replicate your unit, if you're no longer with us because you blew yourself up then you can't enjoy the many benefits this technology has to offer! (or anything else, for that matter) I intend to go overboard with safety devices (working on them now) before I advance any further on gas production. I will use 2 bubblers (one at cell, one before entry into device to be fueled), a couple of flash arrestors, and easily blown off safety caps on EVERY unit no matter it's function.......if it gets gas, it gets safety features!!! Let's strive to make a VERY BIG issue of safety. Yes there are risks involved, most of which can be minimized to the point of void, if the proper precautions are taken. If you can't make hydroxy and be safe, THEN DON'T MAKE HYDROXY!!! Everyone have a great day............and many more in the future!

[theremart]

Another tip I picked up yesterday...

Not advisable to use clip on connectors in cell. Much safter to use threaded connectors. I think this is reasonable... check out this guys cool cell...

YouTube - #94 VSPB cell in clear test chamber. 5.40mmw!

I like his simple plastic wrap blow off valve, very very cool.

[Tarkus]

This is what I'm talk'in about

HHO Safety:

1) Keep your reaction chamber volume to a minimum, less gas hanging around to pop.
Do this by keeping electrolyte levels up and using a filler ie.. imagine ping-pong balls filling the top of the chamber, gas passes around and out while not having a large volume area in the chamber (plastic bio balls from the aquarium store) also helps with sloshing

2) Always have a SLIP/POP cap equal to approx 1/3 or more the sq" of the top of you chamber. A chamber 6" in dia. should have at least a 2" pop cap (makes a convenient fill point) Even better if you make the entire chamber top a pop top.

I have purposely flashed back a 4" reactor with a pop top w/ approx 1/2 ltr of HHO in it, loud pop but no damage to the PVC or other chamber components.

3) Check valves in at least two places in your lines as well as flame arrestors.

I use automotive PCV valves, one immediately after the reaction chamber and one after the last bubbler. Flame arrestors I make out of PVC stuffed with S.S. pot scrubber material. Both tested out well

4) Materials:
PVC and ABS plumbing pipe has proven to hold up well and are readily available and easy to work with, can have problems with extreme heat causing deformation.
Stainless Steel always the metal of choice for Anode/Cathode plates and a good choice for chambers and housings, takes more equipment and skill to work and costs more. 304 or 316 alloys recommended
Acrylic, Looks good medium difficulty to work with great for a bench model or a unit not exposed to solvents and gasoline or heavy vibration. Will shrapnel in a flash back explosion with very sharp shards.
Hoses, standard automotive fuel line material works well and lives a long life under the hood, as well as fitting most of the barb sizes you'll use.
Wiring, use a auto grade stranded wire for under the hood, main power to unit go at least 10awg(good for 30 amps) control wires can be as small as 16-24 gage depending on the load. Auto parts stores often carry fuse and relay blocks use one of these and fuse your circuits according to assumed load.

Electrolyte: I personally use only distilled water and KOH (potassium hydroxide) 1Tsp -1 gallon distilled water, for conditioning i start with 3 tsp to a gallon and work my way down.

Hope this is of use.

Good Luck and best wishes

[gunfighter]

Hydroxy in 4-stroke internal combustion engines

I believe I saw this somewhere here on these forums, but I figured I would add it to this safety thread just in case. I've uncovered a lot of information on this over the course of the past few weeks, and it's hard sometimes to keep track of where it all came from. Therefore, please note that this is not my safety tip. I am simply passing it along. Credit goes to the original author and wherever I read this.



Intro
I think one of the best ways to get started testing the properties and power of hydroxy is to use it with small engines such as lawn mower engines. First off, the engines are small and portable enough to be easily lifted and moved by one person. This means they can be unmounted and tossed up on a workbench for adding/removing, adjusting, and testing components. Second, they're a little less expensive to replace than an automobile engine (or even the entire automobile!) if something goes wrong.



Tip 1
In a hydroxy-powered or hydroxy-boosted internal combustion engine, one of the key adjustments that needs to be made is the timing of the ignition spark in the cylinder. Traditional fuel-air mixtures don't explode until shortly after the spark plug fires. This means that in the four stroke cycle (which is 1. suck, 2. squeeze, 3. bang, 4. blow), the spark plug fires at the tail end of the compression (squeeze) stroke as the piston is still compressing, like this (asterisk denotes spark plug firing):

|---------|--------*|---------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

The inherent delay in the combustion of the fuel-air mixture will cause the actual explosion of the mixture to take place immediately AFTER the piston has reached the point where it has completely compressed the mixture in the cylinder, thus forcing the piston down and turning the crankshaft. This point in the timing cycle where the piston has fully compressed the mixture is commonly referred to as "tap dead center". If we were to adjust the timing to fire at exactly tap dead center, it would look like this:

|---------|---------*---------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

Once you add hydroxy into the mix (whether as a booster to the gasoline/air mixture or on its own), things change a bit. Hydroxy explodes pretty much immediately. This means that the timing has to be adjusted on the engine to ensure that the spark plug does not fire until AFTER tap dead center. If it fires before tap dead center, the piston will not complete the compression cycle and it will actually cause the crankshaft to reverse direction. As it turns out, this is bad. So... first tip is:

Timing on four stroke combustion engines making use of hydroxy has to be adjusted to have the spark plug fire immediately after tap dead center. Like this:

|---------|---------|*--------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

Tip 2
As I mentioned, small engines are a great way to test theories and "get your feet wet" as you experiment with these technologies. Unfortunately, some small engine manufacturers are lazy. This leads to a second safety tip...

In most 4 stroke internal combustion engines, the spark plug fires only once during the full cycle. As discussed above, it fires near tap dead center and doesn't fire again until four strokes later as the piston completes the compression stroke.

Unfortunately, "most" doesn't mean "all", and here's why: small engine manufacturers like to keep things... well... "small". In doing so, some of them apparently skimp on the gearing for their timing elements by having the spark plug fire twice during the four strokes. If we look at the order of the strokes, we have traditional four stroke engines firing where the asterisk is:

|---------|--------*|---------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

Some small engine manufacturers actually have their firing like this:

|---------|--------*|---------|--------*|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

After all, who cares if the spark plug fires at the end of the exhaust (blow) stroke? The contents of the cylinder are mostly gone, and everything that is in there has already been combusted during the combustion (bang) stroke. From my understanding, this is why some primed lawn mower engines display the effect of shooting flames out the exhaust when they are first started. The flames are caused by the excess fuel being ignited at the end of the exhaust stroke.

As I mentioned above, the timing has to be adjusted once hydroxy gets involved. So now we have this if the spark plug only fires once during the full four stroke cycle:

|---------|---------|*--------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

However, we run into a problem when we have a small engine with timing set to fire twice during the four stroke cycle. Take a look:

|*--------|---------|*--------|---------|
   Suck     Squeeze    Bang       Blow

See that asterisk on the left? The one that is firing just as the intake valve opens to allow the hydroxy into the cylinder? Guess what, as it turns out... that's extremely dangerous. With that intake valve open while the spark plug fires, the entire contents of the fuel supply line may ignite. This means everything back to the bubbler (you are using a bubbler, right?) explodes.

So, the second tip I have to offer is....

When working with small engines, take every step to ensure the spark plug only ignites during the combustion stroke. Double the timing mechanism if you have to.