Electric Motor Secrets

[Aaron]

Thank you all for responding to my announcement that the Missing Bob
Teal Interview had been found. The link to view this interview is
here: Energetic Science Ministries | Bob Teal | Magnipulsion

But first, I'd like to give you a little bit of history on how this
came about. As of 2007, the work of Bob Teal and his Magnipulsion
Engine from 1976 has all but been forgotten. Teal was granted two
patents for his mechanical, reciprocating electromagnetic attraction
engine in 1977 and 1978. However, nothing in these patents
disclosed the essential secrets of its extraordinary operating
characteristics. Its capabilities were only hinted at in a rare
piece of company literature. By 1978, Teal was out of money and
work on the Magnipulsion Engine had stopped.

Luckily, these documents fell into the hands of Free Energy
researcher Dr. Peter Lindemann in 1979. By 1983, a group of people
in Santa Barbara, California, including Peter Lindemann and Michael
Knox, were working on reviving Teal's ideas and developing their own
advanced power plant called the Flux Motor. The Flux Motor produced
extremely high torque and was able to recover over 80% of its input
electricity. Unfortunately, this group also ran out of money before
finishing their work. So, the secrets of these amazing electric
motors lay quietly in a file box for 24 years.

In January of this year, Dr. Lindemann decided to produce a new DVD
called Electric Motor Secrets, and base this new educational film on
reviving Bob Teal' s Magnipulsion Engine principles and designs. I was
working with Dr. Lindemann on another project when I learned of his
plans. Remarkably, eight years ago, I was given a VHS tape by Free
Energy researcher Dr. Lawrence Kennedy. It included an interview of
a man demonstrating an extraordinary engine back in the 1970's.
That man was Bob Teal, and he was demonstrating one of the last
models of the Magnipulsion Engine ever built! In this film, he
shows a number of the extraordinary characteristics of this machine.
First, it ran on very low current by eliminating the counter EMF.
And second, it recovered over 90% of its input electricity to either
recharge its batteries or run light bulbs. The short film is a
remarkable piece of history.

I have already viewed Dr. Lindemann's Electric Motor Secrets and I
guarantee to you that he shows everything about how the Magnipulsion
Engine worked and much, much more. So, here is the link to the
Missing Bob Teal Interview and the links to learn how to build the
electric motor of the future.

For more info click this link: Bob Teal | Magnipulsion

---------------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE - April 17, 2013 - Peter Lindemann has Electric motor Secrets
Part 1, Part 2 and Advanced Motor Secrets available at a huge discount
if you want all 3 here:
Electric Motor Secrets by Peter Lindemann

[Aaron]

Electric Motor Secrets Official Discussion Forum

The purpose of this thread is for the discussion of the DVD by Dr. Peter Lindemann called Electric Motor Secrets.

It would be greatly appreciated if you buy your own copy and watch it before posting any messages here as it will answer almost anything you want to know about Bob Teal's Magnipulsion engine.

However, Dr. Lindemann will be contributing some very helpful information here for those of you who are interested in building any of the versions of the the motor(s) discussed in the DVD.

Please keep your posts in this group on topic: Bob Teal, Magnipulsion, Magneteal, Electric Motor Secrets, etc...

If you want to discuss other attraction motor concepts or similar topics but not directly related to Electric Motor Secrets, please feel free to start a new thread.

[Peter Lindemann]

Welcome and Thank you

Hello Everybody,

Thank you, Aaron, for setting up this forum. This will be the only forum I will participate in for the discussion of the information in my new DVD Electric Motor Secrets. Here, we can discuss 1) What Back EMF is, 2) How to engineer around it, 3) How to maximize mechanical energy production in attraction motor designs, 4) Bob Teal's Magnipulsion Engine, 5) and problems encountered in building models. Certain other topics may be allowed on a special basis, or used to start a new thread.

In order to be fair to others in the Forum, please do not post here if you have not seen the DVD presentation Electric Motor Secrets.

I look forward to helping all of you fully understand these ideas.

Peter Lindemann

[Eric]

Loved this documentary! but now i am looking for some recomendations for some books i can use to teach myself how reverse design a test motor, meaning if i want plan to build a motor with roughly 1hp (or a little more) usable shaft work useing Peters S shaped iron rotor idea how do i mathmaticaly design the size of the rotor, number of turns in the winding and the AWG of the wire, shape of the coil and the laminations size and shape. i understand circuts enough but literally this documentary is the first time i have seen the internal workings of a DC motor in an understandable fashion. i love to read and i am very eager learn about design principals if i can just find the right reference books and a few friends i can ask some questions.

your help would be much apprieciated!!
Eric

[Peter Lindemann]

Designing a motor

Eric,

The magnetic attraction motor, whether it is Teal's electric solenoid engine, my "S" rotor, or other designs, can produce mechanical energy at a different rate of conversion than a standard induction motor, due to the lack of Back EMF. Exactly what this new conversion rate is is still not known, and must be determined by experiment.

You can see from my DVD, the Back EMF is responsible for neutralizing between 50% and 90% of the applied energy in a standard induction motor, depending on load conditions. Assuming a moderate load, it seems reasonable, then, to conclude that it may be possible to create a 1 hp motor that only draws 200 watts. If the electrical recovery system can return 85% of this, then the machine will run on 200 watts, produce 1 hp of mechanical energy, and return 170 watts to the batteries. This suggests that 1 hp of mechanical energy may be able to be produced for 30 watts. This is how Teal accomplished what he claimed.

At this point all of these things must be re-worked out by experiment.

Peter

[Eric]

assuming i do understand the dvd lets look at your demo of the single piston motor you built this i believe is a simple bifliar coil wound on a spool, the solinoid inside being soft iron has no permanate magnet field to generate a cemf soooo isnt there a way to calculate magnetic field strength based on number of turns, wire size, volts, amps, then using this field strength we can maybe calculate the nessesary pounds the piston can provide for the crank shaft? solinoids have been around awhile. the geomitry in a soliniod switch might not be what we want for a motor piston but for the size of the coil it might be a start. is there a way to calculate this? maybe i was too specific in my previous post. i am not really looking for a direct induction motor book but rather a more basic book on coil design without a permant magnetic field present, (like a solinoid switch). granted it might not cover the details of how to recover the cemf to charge the source but before i learn about that i was curious about calculating the magnetic field strength in terms of pounds and working from there to the rods and crankshaft in the hopes that i wouldnt have to just start blindly wrapping copper around a core and guess as to whether its enough to pull the rod. hehe.

hope im not rambling here too much
thanks alot for your help!!
Eric

[Peter Lindemann]

Book on Solenoid Design

Eric,

You aren't rambling. You are totally on the right track. A good book that covers the math on what you want is: "Solenoids, Electromagnets, and Electromagnetic Windings" by Charles N. Underhill. ISBN #1-55918-096-X. This book was first printed in 1914. I like the old books because they are factual, and uninfluenced by changes in theory and politics. It is currently available from Lindsay Publications as a reprint.

This book will let you calculate magnetic field strength for wire size, number of turns and current. Teal's big secret was the method whereby he minimized the air-gap in the solenoid at the middle of the stroke. This sort of solenoid design is not discussed in the book, so you will not be able to accurately calculate the mechanical energy produced. You will have to build a model of the machine and MEASURE the mechanical energy generated to fully understand what it does.

Peter

[gyula]

Hi Peter,

1) I would like to know if Bob Teal is still with us or he passed?

2) I apologize for posting here without having bought your DVD yet, I would like to know that the discussion topics you outlined yesterday are based on a practical / working motor you /or/and your partners have actually built and measured to be really overunity or will be based on very logical theory? You have measurement results on at least one working overunity motor and if so will it be possible to learn about them?

Very sorry for my scepticism but I hope you understand it, I am open to think outside of the box, I believe in possible overunity devices but need practical facts.

Thank you,

Gyula

[Aaron]

Solenoids, Electromagnets, and Electromagnetic Windings by Charles N. Underhill

Solenoids, Electromagnets, and Electromagnetic Windings by Charles N. Underhill

There are a handful of used copies there.

[Peter Lindemann]

Hi Peter,

1) I would like to know if Bob Teal is still with us or he passed?

2) I apologize for posting here without having bought your DVD yet, I would like to know that the discussion topics you outlined yesterday are based on a practical / working motor you /or/and your partners have actually built and measured to be really overunity or will be based on very logical theory? You have measurement results on at least one working overunity motor and if so will it be possible to learn about them?

Very sorry for my scepticism but I hope you understand it, I am open to think outside of the box, I believe in possible overunity devices but need practical facts.

Thank you,

Gyula

Dear Gyula,

No problem. These types of groups are full of stuff that is pure speculation, so your skepticism is warranted. My DVD covers a lot of ground. First, I show how to build a Dynamometer, and then run a Dyno test on an induction motor. Then, I show exactly what Back EMF in the motor is, and why it is the main factor holding back the performance of the motor. Then I show the history of motor designs that have No Back EMF, and what the problems have been in allowing these motors to produce high torque. That brings us to Teal's Magnipulsion Engine and how he solved these problems. I also show an advanced motor I built in 1983 that solved most of these problems, as well. I end with some speculative designs that have not been fully tested yet, but are in the process of being tested now.

So, there is a lot to learn. The purpose of the DVD is to get people to think about Zero Back EMF designs as the way to produce motors with COP > 1.

With all of this in mind, you may want to wait for some more definitive testing data to come in. On the other hand, some people like to be shown basic principles so they can come up with their own design that works. There are dozens of "solutions" that will allow a working model to operate in the high torque "window" while returning most of the electrical input.

As for Bob Teal, I do not know if he is still alive. If he is, he is 85 years old and probably living in North or South Carolina. I have not tried to contact him.

Peter

[Eric]

thanks!! i ordered that... and few more that seemed interesting, hehehe
i like your thinking on using older books. the only thing i couldnt find on Lindsay"s site was a book on designing and building transformers. i would love a recomendation for a good older books for building both regular inductive transformers and high freq tesla transformers for some other experements. but back to your dvd.

question about the soft iron keeper.
first is a magnetic field relatable to water pressure in that if you enclose the coil in soft iron and restrict its escape to the outside world to a smaller controlled outlet (I.E. the top halve of a solinoid shaft) the magnetic "pressure" (or maybe "velocity" is a better word)
will be stronger giving us more available work where we want it. much like using a valve on a hose to "spray" water on our lawn.

second (and i may find the answer in the book i bought) i would hazard to guess that field strength is partially related to the size or "mass" of copper in the coil but does the coil "shape" (and iron keeper geomitry) influence the strength of the field, or the "postion" of where i want most of the strength to act on the solinoid shaft. i think i understand what you mean about how no known design criteria is available for bob teals solinoid motor... but!! it is still a solinoid with a copper mass where the geomitry is altered by a soft iron keeper to constrict the magnetic field to the top half of the side walls of the shaft where the air gap is the smallest at the begining of the stroke instead of the end of the stroke. so when i build my first test i think i should be able to use the book you mentioned to calculate the "strength" of the coil mass and test my own geomitry to apply the position of strength.
also how exactly do the magnetic lines of force act on any solinoid shaft. is a standard solinoid shaft pulled from the top surface or are the magnetic lines of force circulating in a clockwise/or counter clockwise fasion through the hollow core of the coil pulling up at the sides of the shaft and is the reason that a standard solinoid is strongest at the end of a stroke because most of side suface area the shaft is all inside the coil and being pulled up by the field rotation? lol am i getting warmer or colder hahaha. maybe there is a book on studing design principles of magnetic lines of force to!!

also following what you are saying about building a model and measuring mechanical strength in say "pounds" do you think it would be a simple linear proportional equation to calculate how much bigger or smaller and identical duplicate of the first test model would have to be to achieve a target shaft work.

lol now for a funny question. in the dvd you mentioned this idea is not overunity but... if as in your example a 1 hp motor might only use 30watts and 1hp equates to 746 watts ideally. doesnt this mean i could strap on a belt driven alternator to the shaft and deliver say 35 or 40 watts and still have slightly less than than 1hp of mechanical energy to use elsewhere making this a self sustaining motor? or am i missing something in the concept of unity

whew!! ok i will stop now

thank again!
Eric

[Peter Lindemann]

lol now for a funny question. in the dvd you mentioned this idea is not overunity but... if as in your example a 1 hp motor might only use 30watts and 1hp equates to 746 watts ideally. doesnt this mean i could strap on a belt driven alternator to the shaft and deliver say 35 or 40 watts and still have slightly less than than 1hp of mechanical energy to use elsewhere making this a self sustaining motor? or am i missing something in the concept of unity.

thank again!
Eric

Eric,

Yes, you are missing something. The idea of efficiency is based on the First Law of Thermodynamics, often referred to as the Law of the Conservation of Energy. This idea is that energy can be converted from one form to another, but it is neither created nor destroyed by its passage through the mechanism. I do not believe in the idea of "Over Unity" because this Law is either correct and in-force at all times, or it is not. So, it is logical that the Law cannot be both correct and in-force, AND violated at the same time. It is well established that the energy conversion rate for the direct induction machine is 746 watts = 1 horse power = 550 foot-pounds per second of mechanical energy.

The magnetic attraction motors that my DVD discusses can be called indirect induction machines, as they use direct induction for the creation of a magnetic field, but it is the magnetic field that causes the mechanical energy production. So, the electricity input is only indirectly related to the production of mechanical energy in the machine. I have postulated that this process, which is NOT the same process as Faraday's induction, operates at a different conversion rate, somewhere around 200 watts = 1 horse power = 550 foot-pounds per second of mechanical energy.

Then, by configuring the machine to operate on short pulses of DC current, an inductor can be charged with electric current. This in turn, causes the creation of a magnetic field. As this magnetic field grows, it can be used to attract a piece of iron, producing mechanical energy. When the field is maximized, the current can be shut off, and the magnetic field will collapse. The collapse of the magnetic field will induce a new current of electricity that can be recaptured by the circuitry, and re-applied to the battery system, thus recovering up to 90% of the input electrical energy. If the machine can produce more than 10% mechanical energy production, then there is an anomaly here which needs a creative explanation.

So, the issue here is, how much mechanical energy can be produced by this process? The answer is, quite a lot, if you design the machine correctly. Way over 10%, in fact. So, when all of these processes are designed right, the machine apparently produces significant amounts of energy that are not explained by the Laws of Conservation.

So, three possibilities exist to explain this. The first is, that the Law of Conservation is just plain wrong, and nothing is being converted into anything else in any of these machines. Most people are not willing to entertain this idea. The second is, that the conversion rate for the indirect induction machine is different than for the direct induction machine, and therefore it can produce more mechanical energy from less electricity because that's what it does. Again, most people find this idea difficult to accept. The third is, that the machine is somehow tapping an unseen source of energy and converting it to the seen energy surplus. Many scientists are starting to consider this idea as the explanation for these phenomena.

No matter which explanation you pick, OVER UNITY is NOT one of the possibilities.

Does this help?

Peter

[Eric]

how about this test

yes i am aware of the first law and i had allready gathered that unity is refering to efficancy which considers the whole system and not COP which referes to what we put in to the system. however in your above statement refering to 746w=1hp for a direct induction motor and 200w=1hp for the new machine this doesnt jive for me because 1hp of mechanical shaft power is still one 1hp so i believe what your refering to is it "takes" 746w in a direct induction to produce 1hp and we are estimating that it "takes" 200w to produce 1hp with the indirect method plus we will recover maybe 170w back to reuse leaving us with 30w lost input power. i dont think this is a reversible example (meaning 1hp=200w doesnt work) if in the end my new machine still outputs 1hp of work, or slightly more, and i common shaft 1hp direct induction generator to it ,assuming 100% eff gen, then i get 746w out and watts are watts so i send some back to the source and use the rest for an outside load this should be a self sustaining cycle. while i do understand its not overunity from a whole system efficancy stand point, i do believe a >1 cop engine should run for as long as magnetics last in nature if that is where we theorize where the extra energy is coming from? today we produce electrical through the consumption of chemical "fuels" perhaps tomorrows future is the recognition that we might be able to "consume" magnetic energy or some unknown energy behind its curtain to produce more shaft work out by "intiating" a magnetic process with electricity.
am i close?

hahahaha heres an idea i thought i would float by for a test. i noticed in your dvd the picture of the c shaped lamintion core and coil with the S rotor looks very similar to a shaded pole motor i pulled out of a microwave oven. i could remove its old rotor, cut the top and bottom out of the laminations to closer
mimic your C shape, build a new iron rotor and comutator using the same shaft and bearings, and pulse 110v DC into the coil using your sugested circutry maybe use capacitors instead of batteries to drive the motor and collect and recycle the cemf by swapping caps and have a seperate circut that only "tops off" any lost energy in the process. this "top off" circut is the energy i "pay for" so i should measure watts there and build a mini dyno test to measure shaft output!!

sound like fun?
Eric

[Eric]

ok i took a bunch of pictures of a shaded pole motor i yanked out of a microwave you can view them here Eric's page, Home
just click on the photos link then click on an image to enlarge.

i have 2 pictures in particular with highlighted lines showing where i want to cut away the laminations of the stator core. i would like some advise as to which of the 2 pictures would be a better attempt. i am not sure but i am guessing based on the dvd the width of the center bar of the S rotor idea needs to match the width of the connecting stator "brushes" (for lack of a better word) so i am not sure if highlighted picture 1 would be practical.

for the rotor i will use the old rotor to determine the size of the new rotor with the same gap clearance between rotor and stator. i will have a machine shop cut me a new rotor out of soft iron (and cut a longer shaft) modeled after Peter's S shape idea.

not sure how i will do the comutator.... any ideas?

thanks
Eric

[Peter Lindemann]

Modifying a Shaded Pole Motor

Eric,

I took a look at your pictures.

You are totally on the right track here!!!! Cutting the stator core laminations is a bit tricky because they are covered with Silicon (glass) insulation. It tends to dull your cutting tools pretty fast.

Also, you'll find that running the coil on 12 volts DC will give you a lot of power, since there is no Back EMF in the coil to buck the input. You won't be able to run it on 120 volts DC as you suggested. It will melt the coil.

Make a new rotor that is just a bar (with curved ends) of cast iron across the section of the stator that is left after you cut away the sections you have marked.

Set the commutator to turn the coil ON when the front edge of the rotor is at the front edge of the stator, and to turn the coil OFF when the rotor is half way into alignment. The collapsing field will keep motoring the rotor forward until the magnetic field disappears, at which point the rotor will slide out of alignment unopposed.

This is the simplest version of the idea. This will work better than the "S" rotor and is the basic method we used in 1983 with the original Flux Motor, as far as just attracting bars of iron to the stator sections.

Keep us appraised of your progress! You really do understand the idea. Way to go!!

Peter