Electric Motor Secrets

[mbrownn]

I cant wait till I get the video

Hi Peter, my own experiments lead me to all the conclusions you have posted here and more but I have not as yet been able to limit the BEMF enough, still working on it.

It is true, it does work on simulators but on the ones I have it does not simulate iron losses.

I am not interested in NDA's as I want the information out on how to do it. To be truthful even when I tell people how to do it they do not understand it hehe One thing you did not mention is three devices on one iron core giving three functions and only one loss. This bumps the efficiency up.

[s e t h]

please excuse me butting in...
BEMF solution may lie in investigating holding it temporarily and then releasing it when it will mimic a powered cycle.

please note the bottom dual asymmetrical design is mine and not Ufolpolitics' and does not output as well as the standard asymmetrical design as it appears the BEMF trying to escape through the generator brushes directly opposes and cancels the induced current as the coil passes the magnet.

the pure asymmetrical design does however have measurable flow out the generator brushes.

>video of operation<

[penno64]

Hi Seth,

What is it that you are moving/poking at with the food skewer?

Regards, Penno

[s e t h]

sound analysis

Hi Seth,

What is it that you are moving/poking at with the food skewer?

Regards, Penno

since i had no means of measuring rpm i was creating a sound signal off the flattenned end of the shaft that could be analysed.
the switches allow switching between standard symmetrical design and Ufopolitics asymmetrical design....and using the same components is aimed to better analyse his design vs standard...unfortunately i lack the necessary equipment edit:skills or knowledge ;-) /edit to do a proper job.

[mbrownn]

Nice test rig, simple but very functional.

what battery are you using? it may be that such a small battery is current limiting the motor, if so you could run it on a lower voltage and get the same performance ie less power in and same mechanical power out.

[s e t h]

it was just a small Li-Po used in radio controlled hobby and yes it could have been limiting the performance.

the most important point i wanted to make i learned from building and testing the dual asymmetrical design. To me it looked like the design should happily output through the generator brushes while being otherwise equal to a standard symmetrical design. it spun at ridiculously high speeds and should have induced current flowing out the generator brushes.
well it didn't...when i hooked up a small motor to the generator brushes it would rotate during acceleration and reverse during deceleration of the main machine but would come to a standstill once the main machine was at full speed. if i retarded or advanced the position of the magnets the motor attached to the generator brushes would turn in opposite directions depending on the magnets timing. with the magnets aligned in such a way that the small motor attached to the generator brushes stood still then i could use diodes to allow its rotation again in either direction depending on whether the diode was blocking the coils collapse or the induced current.
so to me the energy stored in the magnetic field of the coil after it is energised (and done its normal job) is powerful enough to completely cancel the optimal angled induced current if one allows the field to collapse through the generator brushes.

this to me validates Ufopolitics' 3-pole concept where the coils fields are allowed to collapse only after they have passed the point where the induced current would completely cancel the potential flow available. whether the flow generated by the collapse assists the rotation or causes the coils to need extra juice to be resaturated at each power pulse i don't know.
the only thing i think i know is that the flow of the coils collapse is equal and opposite to what should have been powerful induced flow. (there may be 'radiant spikes' available even if the two forces cancel each other)

so somewhere here may lie a potentially beneficial solution to BEMF as opposed to trying to kill it. It may assist rotation if treated right while also being available as an output to be used elsewhere. some more tests i would like to do would be reducing the input/output arcs of the asymmetrical design by rotating the second set of brushes while it is spinning and then also playing with the exact position of the arc where the coil is allowed to collapse.

its going to take far more skilled people than me to analyse this properly.

[mbrownn]

Your observations are important

its going to take far more skilled people than me to analyze this properly.

The truth is, few people with the skills and equipment needed to do a full analysis are willing or available to do it. OK we don't have the resources to produce a full scientific paper on this but if a number of people carry out an experiment as you have and get similar results it shows a trend and this trend can be just as valid and important as any peer reviewed paper.

Don't undervalue what you did.

[s e t h]

thanks

this is what i'd like to test next.
the theory being to reduce Ufopolitics' input power arc to the most optimal 60' and then letting the coils field collapse after it has passed more of the blue magnet which opposes the collapse. If the flow from the collapsing field indeed mimics the second power stroke in a symmetrical design then in this new offset design may have a more powerful collapse hindered less by the attempted induction from the coil passing blue magnet field lines. a further optimization could be to twist just the output arc a further 30' while leaving the input arc in the optimal 60' position. and then lastly as the coils pass the red magnet they will be inducing current in the same direction as the flow from the collapse and they will not be holding a field to oppose the induction anymore. in fact if they still hold any field to collapse it will collapse in the same direction as the induced current from passing the red magnet wants to go. perhaps some of that induced current could be added to the flow from the collapse to further boost the potential output.

of course the trimmed arcs to 60' will mean the machine will need to be manually started 50% of the time or the adjustments to the brushes must happen while the machine is running.

the thought of trimming the input output arcs initially came from when i had a commutator slip slightly on me which resulted in the highest speed i ever saw on the asymmetrical design.

[Motorcoach1]

Seth, have you looked at Ernst Alexanderson- Ampladyne by Westinghouse , designs ? you may find them very intrugng.

[s e t h]

repost of Ufpopolitics 101

Seth, have you looked at Ernst Alexanderson- Ampladyne by Westinghouse , designs ? you may find them very intrugng.

thanks i will...below is a repost of mine from Ufopolitics asymmetrical machines thread

testing, as i did, that a coil passing a magnet while the coils field was collapsing would completly cancel the ability of the magnet to induce a current in the coil leads one to recognise the potential of the collapsing field.
the effect must be as strong as that of recognised induction itself in order to cancel it.
recognising the potential of a collapsing field in a coil passing a magnet can lead one to understand that a collaping field effectively reverses the magnetic pole created by the current that built the field.

1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=Zxcurrent
and
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet+1xcollapsing field=0 (my dual asymmetrical design test)
therefor
1xspeeding coil+1xpassing magnet=-1xcollapsing field
therefor
Zxcurrent=-1xcollasping field
therefor
Zxcurrent/-1=1xcollasping field
or
1xcollasping field= -Zxcurrent

now if Zxcurrent+coil=N-pole then -Zxcurrent+coil=S-pole
therefor
1xcollapsing field=-Zxcurrent with the opposite pole of the initial current used to create the field.
therefor Ufopolitics claims are starting to look like simple mathamatical facts to me.

a properly designed machine using electromagnets for both the armature and stator and running on pulsed DC should be quite capable of being 'foreward powered' by both the current pulses and the DUAL opposing forces created by the collapse of BOTH armature and stator fields created by the pulses

[s e t h]

as yet untested theory

after some thought i think i'm going to try build this next
please note it's completely untested and i haven't perfected the drawing
it should be possible to pull diode3 from the circuit and then compare it as a linear motor against its self pulsing alternative
it will often need to be manually started
and of course it could fail spectacularly like my last design hehe
edit: i'm going to rethink this a little...will post outcome later /edit

[Robert49]

I am interested to see what you do with this

Hi Mbrown!

This is where I'm getting at.
Motor running at 36 volt, 3600rpm, drawing 2.8 amps without a load.
I put a bridge rectifier on one of the 40 volt A.C. and connected a 60 watt bulb and it lights up at 20 watts(44.5V 0.45A). Motor slows to 3100rpm and the amps rise to 3.25
36V X 2.8A= 100.8 watts
36V x 3.25A= 115.92 watts
Using 15.84watts more but getting 20watts back.

No surprise YET

I will try to capture the AC only when the coils are not pulsed and see what happens.


Fun to experiment!

Robert

[Robert49]

Hi

I tried a modification and I ended up with a

Boat anchor!!

Robert

[mbrownn]

Hi

I tried a modification and I ended up with a

Boat anchor!!

Robert

???? what do you mean?

Didn't see the previous post but the figures there are interesting.

36V X 2.8A= 100.8 watts
36V x 3.25A= 115.92 watts
Using 15.84watts more but getting 20watts back.

Your motor would be under maximum load at 1800rpm so a generator could be fitted to the shaft for more output.

[Robert49]

???? what do you mean?

Didn't see the previous post but the figures there are interesting.



Your motor would be under maximum load at 1800rpm so a generator could be fitted to the shaft for more output.

Hi mbrownn

I chopped the stator in 3 pieces and now I have drag on the rotor.
This is just a temporary set back. I will make another stator soon.

By the way, I just bought the new video "Advanced motor secrets" by Dave Squires and he talks about keeping the coil core saturated to minimize CEMF and in a way that's probably what I'm doing with my Neodimiun magnets on the rotor. So when I chopped the stator , that condtion was changed.

I will try to make the new stator this week-end.

Till next time.

Robert