Electric Motor Secrets

[Jetijs]

Mart,
I think that those motors are not suitable to convert them in attraction motors, because you do not have a stator. It will be SO hard to make a good stator from scratch. Maybe you could get a grinder motor? Today I disassembled one of my old and broken grinders. I am talking about such one:


And here is what it has inside:









You see, there is a perfect stator inside made of high quality silicon steel. There already are two coils wound on the poles and you have an easy access to the coil wire ends. All you have to do is remove the coil wires form the rotor and cut out some of the rotor poles as Elias did some posts earlier. And you can use the original housing and bearings. This way you can easily modify such motor to run in attraction mod. All that is left, is the circuit and a commutator.
The only disadvantage is the airgap. This one has a total airgap of 1.5mm, that means 0.75mm on each side. This is not very good.
Hope this helps

[theremart]

Re Grinder..

SWWEEET

Peter, what do you think about that idea that J gave? The coils look very very nice.

This is the $20.00 I saw... can't really tell much about the insides from the diagram..

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals...1999/91223.pdf


Mart

[Jetijs]

Here
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6632128-0-large.jpg
This is a diagram of usual angle grinder insides. The rotor and the stator looks like in my pictures, only the housing is different.
Also are you sure you want to do this? I mean with an air gap that big, you will probably not see COP>1

[Peter Lindemann]

First Test Model

SWWEEET

Peter, what do you think about that idea that J gave? The coils look very very nice.

This is the $20.00 I saw... can't really tell much about the insides from the diagram..

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals...1999/91223.pdf


Mart

Mart,

Jetijs is right. This motor will probably not allow COP>1 mechanical energy production. What it will do for you is this. 1) It will allow you to make a fully operational rotary attraction motor by just modifying the rotor (cut some of the lamination lobes off and remove the copper coils). 2) It will allow you to demonstrate all of the "no back EMF" operations for yourself. 3) It will allow you to work out all of the commutator and power switching circuits.

Once you have all of that working well, you might be motivated to make a new rotor with a tighter clearance to increase the mechanical energy production.

Its a better place to start than the PM motors.

Peter

[theremart]

RE: do I want to do this..

Here
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6632128-0-large.jpg
This is a diagram of usual angle grinder insides. The rotor and the stator looks like in my pictures, only the housing is different.
Also are you sure you want to do this? I mean with an air gap that big, you will probably not see COP>1

I thought you wanted someone to share you pains lol

I am surveying what is out there, I am also interested in going back to the old design of the rod pulled up into the coil. Or to replicate version #1.

It looks like version #1 does not have much torque. but I understand it is to prove the concept not the final product.

[aladinlamp]

Mart,

Jetijs is right. This motor will probably not allow COP>1 mechanical energy production. What it will do for you is this. 1) It will allow you to make a fully operational rotary attraction motor by just modifying the rotor (cut some of the lamination lobes off and remove the copper coils). 2) It will allow you to demonstrate all of the "no back EMF" operations for yourself. 3) It will allow you to work out all of the commutator and power switching circuits.

Once you have all of that working well, you might be motivated to make a new rotor with a tighter clearance to increase the mechanical energy production.

Its a better place to start than the PM motors.

Peter

What is than in theory the best shape of rotor and stator to achieve maximum efficiency of the whole system.
Suppose i want to build such motor by myself, shoudl i just try as many designs as possible ? is the "smallest gap" the only recommendation _?

Thanx

[theremart]

Thinking this threw again.

I am starting to look for various designs of motors and I found this one on youtube. This is a solenoid motor. I am thinking this might have potential for our design target of zero emf.


YouTube - Solenoid motor of my own design.


This one looks simplier, and has torque.

YouTube - Solenoid motor with electronic control


This will make you laugh!!

YouTube - solenoid concert

[Jetijs]

Hi Mart
If you are interested in the solenoid model replication, maybe you could use some parts of the cheap 12V car air compressors. They have a solenoid, a piston and some counterweight in them. Here are some pictures:







You can get these on ebay for under 10$ a piece. You might need to change the piston, because if it is made from aluminum, it will not work, Then you will just need to wrap a coil around the cylinder (of course, the cylinder might need also to be custom made) and viola - ready If it would prove to work well, you could stack two or four of these on one axis to get more torque and eliminate inertia. Also you get a good DC motor that you ould use for other projects Or course, this a just a poor mans way

[theremart]

RE: Piston..

ROFL

I am just waiting for you to get yours working and turn up when your back is turned poof, motor gone

[Jetijs]

I got my wheel today:





The whel is machined so that its circumference is exactly one foot or 304.8mm.
I told this guy to make the iron mounting piece at first and then bolt on the wheel, which was slightly bigger than needed, so that then he could just use a lathe to machine the plexiglass to the right diameter. Unfortunately after this was done, he disassembled both pieces (and I asked him not to do this before). This is bad, because the mounting holes on the wheel and the mounting piece are slightly bigger than the bolts themselves, because of this it is almost impossible attach the wheel on the mounting piece precise and a big off center appears. This makes the motor vibrate alot and I even have to attach one more nut on one of the bolts to balance the motor so that it doesn't vibrate around on the table. This solves the vibration, but the off center is still there and if I load the wheel with a leather strip, the strip just shakes at every revolution making a steady reading impossible.
Now I will have to bring the wheel and the mounting piece back to this guy in one piece and ask him to machine the wheel to a bit smaller size, just so that the off center is gone. This is frustrating
I will get the wheel re machined and just wait for the spring scales, then we will see.

[aladinlamp]

I am starting to look for various designs of motors and I found this one on youtube. This is a solenoid motor. I am thinking this might have potential for our design target of zero emf.


YouTube - Solenoid motor of my own design.


This one looks simplier, and has torque.

YouTube - Solenoid motor with electronic control


This will make you laugh!!

YouTube - solenoid concert

Is there any place where i can buy off the shelf solenoid motor similar to one used in EMS DVD ?

[Peter Lindemann]

Re-align the Wheel

I got my wheel today:





The whel is machined so that its circumference is exactly one foot or 304.8mm.
I told this guy to make the iron mounting piece at first and then bolt on the wheel, which was slightly bigger than needed, so that then he could just use a lathe to machine the plexiglass to the right diameter. Unfortunately after this was done, he disassembled both pieces (and I asked him not to do this before). This is bad, because the mounting holes on the wheel and the mounting piece are slightly bigger than the bolts themselves, because of this it is almost impossible attach the wheel on the mounting piece precise and a big off center appears. This makes the motor vibrate alot and I even have to attach one more nut on one of the bolts to balance the motor so that it doesn't vibrate around on the table. This solves the vibration, but the off center is still there and if I load the wheel with a leather strip, the strip just shakes at every revolution making a steady reading impossible.
Now I will have to bring the wheel and the mounting piece back to this guy in one piece and ask him to machine the wheel to a bit smaller size, just so that the off center is gone. This is frustrating
I will get the wheel re machined and just wait for the spring scales, then we will see.

Jetijs,

It may be frustrating, but it is possible to re-align the wheel to the shaft. It will take less than 1 hour to do it, and I recommend you try. Think it through. You can do it. If you need some ideas, email me at my private email.

Peter

[theremart]

RE: off the shelf.

What is than in theory the best shape of rotor and stator to achieve maximum efficiency of the whole system.
Suppose i want to build such motor by myself, shoudl i just try as many designs as possible ? is the "smallest gap" the only recommendation _?

Thanx

Hi aladinlamp,

I think the best way to describe the situation is that there are now none known that are off the shelf ready to be done with Peter's method. That being said the first ones that have been shown are the custom made soleniod one at Bedini's shop, and the DC motor that had it's stator coils removed and stator cut with the preferred shape had to have work done on them to get them to work, and even then they were not up to the same standard of a Bob Teal motor. They did demonstrate that there is sound reason to believe that Bob Teal was really on to something.

I posted the other motors, but they are merely suggestions, not guarantees... of them working. I can understand where Peter is coming from in not endorsing these motors, they come some were in the ballpark for Teals design, but they are not as good as a custom motor with the geometry correctly designed for this application.

To this end, one can take an off the shelf DC motor and customize it, but will be hard pressed to get a COP >1.

Jetijs is doing the hard way, making it from scratch. Yet this way has the most promise as it is as close to the best design structure of the Teal motor. Yet when you go where others have not been you have to struggle with unseen problems of the art. Balancing, parts, EXACT specs, and working with materials to learn their breaking point can bring one close to ones own breaking point ... But this is an art, and I believe Jetijs is learning this art. The first motor is a bear to make, but the next ones will come much easier once the master pattern has been forged.

I myself, want to start small and maybee work up... I am just looking at this project from different angles. I suggest you look at the start of this thread, you will find links to the original motors and others looks at the design.

Cheers

[aladinlamp]

Hi aladinlamp,

I think the best way to describe the situation is that there are now none known that are off the shelf ready to be done with Peter's method. That being said the first ones that have been shown are the custom made soleniod one at Bedini's shop, and the DC motor that had it's stator coils removed and stator cut with the preferred shape had to have work done on them to get them to work, and even then they were not up to the same standard of a Bob Teal motor. They did demonstrate that there is sound reason to believe that Bob Teal was really on to something.

I posted the other motors, but they are merely suggestions, not guarantees... of them working. I can understand where Peter is coming from in not endorsing these motors, they come some were in the ballpark for Teals design, but they are not as good as a custom motor with the geometry correctly designed for this application.

To this end, one can take an off the shelf DC motor and customize it, but will be hard pressed to get a COP >1.

Jetijs is doing the hard way, making it from scratch. Yet this way has the most promise as it is as close to the best design structure of the Teal motor. Yet when you go where others have not been you have to struggle with unseen problems of the art. Balancing, parts, EXACT specs, and working with materials to learn their breaking point can bring one close to ones own breaking point ... But this is an art, and I believe Jetijs is learning this art. The first motor is a bear to make, but the next ones will come much easier once the master pattern has been forged.

I myself, want to start small and maybee work up... I am just looking at this project from different angles. I suggest you look at the start of this thread, you will find links to the original motors and others looks at the design.

Cheers

Ok , lets start together, i like V1.0 design, what would be than the best material for the stator magnetic core, can it be something like this ?, or anything else located on that site?>

POWERLITE FORMS
MAGAMP - Square Loop Cores

Thanx

[mskhalil]

Jetijs,

It may be frustrating, but it is possible to re-align the wheel to the shaft. It will take less than 1 hour to do it, and I recommend you try. Think it through. You can do it. If you need some ideas, email me at my private email.

Peter

hi every one

I am new and need help but, I ask , Did Mr. Peter Lindeman offer to jetijs only or for all human to share ideas and facts I really need to know, and I know the hadic for sam email or even sam men as I love to say