Electric Motor Secrets

[theremart]

Ok test 2 on grinder motor.

Jetijs nailed the problem I was having with my motor. It was not a 1 to 1 gearing on the gear box so I was getting the timing all messed up where I had the magnet for my reed switch.

I placed two magnets on the old commutator and moved the reed switch there.

It now runs Does not fly but running is very good for me

It is now charging 2nd battery. The primary battery is hardly moving.

YouTube - Test 2 of the Attraction motor. now working.

[Eric]

Jetijs nailed the problem I was having with my motor. It was not a 1 to 1 gearing on the gear box so I was getting the timing all messed up where I had the magnet for my reed switch.

I placed two magnets on the old commutator and moved the reed switch there.

It now runs Does not fly but running is very good for me

It is now charging 2nd battery. The primary battery is hardly moving.

YouTube - Test 2 of the Attraction motor. now working.

very nice! nice idea leaving the grearing all intact, you could refine that motor so the motor spins at a high rpm and the geared down portion could spin up a generator at 1800rpms or so. whats the air gap measured between the existing rotor and stator? are you only running at 12v!? considering your existing air gap, resistance in the gear box, and 12v then 100rpm sounds very good!! oh is that 100rpms before of after the gear box? if your circut can handle it, try throwing 2, 3, or 4 12v batts in series (48v total at 4) and see how fast it spins up. you will probably notice different rpm performance levels if you try a batt, cap, light bulb, and or a block resister on the output wires but yes!! be careful to turn the power off!! when changing the output types, lol i have blown plenty of transistors learning the hard way. also i think you mentioned you were using pots instead of fixed resistors for the bridge on the base of the transistor. you should probably try changing those out to a "matched ohms" set of fixed resistors and see if there is an improvment, i have been told that pots are not as accurate.

i am still waiting for my second motor from a local machine shop. its nearly identical to yours in geomitry. just came out of a weed wacker. the shop is making a new rotor for that one with a 5thousands air gap. he is pricing the clean(virgin?) cast iron at about 10$ a pound. does that sound about right anybody? also i would like to post some videos but my camera only outputs quicktime file types. can anyone recomend a utility i can use to shrink the file size and change the format to mpg?

thanks!
Eric

[theremart]

very nice! nice idea leaving the grearing all intact, you could refine that motor so the motor spins at a high rpm and the geared down portion could spin up a generator at 1800rpms or so. whats the air gap measured between the existing rotor and stator? are you only running at 12v!? considering your existing air gap, resistance in the gear box, and 12v then 100rpm sounds very good!! oh is that 100rpms before of after the gear box? if your circut can handle it, try throwing 2, 3, or 4 12v batts in series (48v total at 4) and see how fast it spins up. you will probably notice different rpm performance levels if you try a batt, cap, light bulb, and or a block resister on the output wires but yes!! be careful to turn the power off!! when changing the output types, lol i have blown plenty of transistors learning the hard way. also i think you mentioned you were using pots instead of fixed resistors for the bridge on the base of the transistor. you should probably try changing those out to a "matched ohms" set of fixed resistors and see if there is an improvment, i have been told that pots are not as accurate.

i am still waiting for my second motor from a local machine shop. its nearly identical to yours in geomitry. just came out of a weed wacker. the shop is making a new rotor for that one with a 5thousands air gap. he is pricing the clean(virgin?) cast iron at about 10$ a pound. does that sound about right anybody? also i would like to post some videos but my camera only outputs quicktime file types. can anyone recomend a utility i can use to shrink the file size and change the format to mpg?

thanks!
Eric

------------------

Thanks for the encouragement Eric,

The RPMS that I measured this morning was 800-850 RPMS ( on the wheel past the gearing ) at 12.8 V Second charging battery went to 13.14 ( small 10 Amp hour batteries ) I put on some duralube the bearings.

I moved this system over to my auto battery swapper and will give it some time there to see how it stands up to long time swapping.

I am not sure my circuit can handle the extra voltage, I am tempted to try the 40 V to see what the back EMF would be to my golf cart batteries... currently I am charging them at 40V at .8 AMP 2 at a time with my SSG. It would be cool to switch over to this and see what it could do, but for now, I will stick to my small amp hour batteries and just let it run for hours on end..

I did note that my transistors did get pretty warm when I was running this, so I added a heat sync to it. I did kill one transistor when I lowered the pot on one side too low. However keeping the resistance up it has continued to run for several hours now.

I like your idea of making a custom stator for your machine via a CNC shop. I will be most interested in your results of such a tight gap, I do not know the gap that I have on mine. I have considered filling in the gaps on the stator with epoxy to give more momentum and to help cut down on the air resistance
It seems to me it would be more balanced that way as well. But that is just a crazy idea I have.... the right thing to do is to have it CNC, then balanced properly. I did note when I took this apart that it appears that is what they did with this unit, there were small cuts in the metal of the stator I am betting they balanced the stator this way.


a MUST HAVE image utility, I recommend because it is free... and works!

"FastStone Image Viewer"

I use it all the time and have associated all my graphic files to it. Very powerful tool, allows for batch conversion too.

Cheers

[Eric]

------------------

Thanks for the encouragement Eric,

The RPMS that I measured this morning was 800-850 RPMS ( on the wheel past the gearing ) at 12.8 V Second charging battery went to 13.14 ( small 10 Amp hour batteries ) I put on some duralube the bearings.

I moved this system over to my auto battery swapper and will give it some time there to see how it stands up to long time swapping.

I am not sure my circuit can handle the extra voltage, I am tempted to try the 40 V to see what the back EMF would be to my golf cart batteries... currently I am charging them at 40V at .8 AMP 2 at a time with my SSG. It would be cool to switch over to this and see what it could do, but for now, I will stick to my small amp hour batteries and just let it run for hours on end..

I did note that my transistors did get pretty warm when I was running this, so I added a heat sync to it. I did kill one transistor when I lowered the pot on one side too low. However keeping the resistance up it has continued to run for several hours now.

I like your idea of making a custom stator for your machine via a CNC shop. I will be most interested in your results of such a tight gap, I do not know the gap that I have on mine. I have considered filling in the gaps on the stator with epoxy to give more momentum and to help cut down on the air resistance
It seems to me it would be more balanced that way as well. But that is just a crazy idea I have.... the right thing to do is to have it CNC, then balanced properly. I did note when I took this apart that it appears that is what they did with this unit, there were small cuts in the metal of the stator I am betting they balanced the stator this way.


a MUST HAVE image utility, I recommend because it is free... and works!

"FastStone Image Viewer"

I use it all the time and have associated all my graphic files to it. Very powerful tool, allows for batch conversion too.

Cheers

thanks! i will check out the image software but it looks like it only does images i need to convert video files specifically quicktime format to mpeg the windows default movie maker software wont touch quicktime (probly cause its apple hehehe)

i would like to try and clear up some concepts for you as peter did for me awhile ago (if i get the details wrong peter can feel free to correct me when he gets back)

i noticed in your posts your trying to relate similarities with john's monopole "radiant battery charger" and peters "magnetic rotary attraction motor" if you go way back to the beginning of this thread you will see there already has been incidents of similar confusion between the 2 "different" technologies.

THE ONLY SIMILARITY between the two technologies is in the "control circuit" using a transistor to turn the field on and off sharply. thats where the similarity stops. remember in johns work the secret is in the way a battery charges not the monopole motor it self. with the monopole your pulsing a coil whose magnetic field is "open to the environment" not "closed down in iron". there was some argument from john himself about how iron absorbs/wastes all of the "radiant energy" if you read the beginning of this thread and if i remember correctly peter did not disagree with that fact. heres whats important.

with the monopole the focus is in studying the amount of "radiant energy absorbed by the battery" "between" the "triggered spikes" developed from the monopole motor itself. remember this important fact. "the torque developed by the spinning monopole is an extra byproduct not the focus of that project"

now we address peters dvd "electric motor secrets" understand that even in the title we see that the focus of this project is on "electric motors" not "charging batteries". how that BEMF spike we see in peters motor charges a battery is not whats important in this motor design. keep in mind that "electrons" and the "radiant energy" are different parts of the equation. we are not focusing on absorbing radiant energy into a battery, whats important to remember is that with the BEMF we are "recycling" electrons, whether or not the radiant energy is lost in the iron is not an important issue. if anything the closest relatable conceptual work i have found regarding "recycling electrons" either using magnetic fields or capacitors is george Wiseman's book "the energy conserver theory" books 1 and 2 in fact i am trying to use his work to help me better understand how to "recycle" more input energy for peters motor. BUT!! thats possibly for a new/different thread.

whats important to understand with peters dvd is that "the secret" the focus of this group and this type of motor is that in a standard off the self direct induction motor the BEMF is acting in "electrical" opposition to the input energy creating heat!! and forever keeping these motors under unity "the secret" is not radiant energy and/or charging batteries, in our group the recycled electrons from the BEMF become the incidental benefit

"the secret" if you go to near the beginning of the dvd and follow more closely the "math" peter breaks down for motor efficacy you will see him describe how after you remove the 9v lost "electrically" (turned in to heat, almost like having a friggin resistor type heater element built into the motor itself chewing up 9v!!!). you end up with 3v * 1 amp applied "mechanically" in terms actual magnetic mechanical work.... blah, that was a mouthful lol, but seriously then if you take his dyno readings and THEN do an efficacy calc you get 300% or cop of 3 ...uh... !@#$%^&* ah hah!!, think about it, the math for that 300% did NOT factor in recycling the electrons at all!! the real mystery is "where did the free work come from?" then the answer is that there are some seriously unanswered questions about "how much mechanical work can you get from a magnetic field thats "initiated" by an electrical circuit!! i always giggle a little when i read threads on this group where people always gravitate towards the bemf and how it charges batteries. oh i know "doing something" with the bemf is important, it has to go somewhere after all so its not a detriment to the motor torque process. and i do get excited by the prospect of putting the bemf to beneficial use by adding it to my motor torque instead of it subtracting it from my torque so i might go beyond cop of 3 to maybe 4 or the theoretical 8 to 12. but if you ask me i bet if you focus on using the bemf to "charge batteries better" you will find that the battery will deteriorate just like a conventional pulse charger would do.

i really am curious? am i the only one here who thought to myself that if you follow the math in the dvd to get the 300% efficacy couldn't i make an attraction motor machined properly so it has a really small air gap and built with the right kind of metal so there are minimal residual fields. that if i just dump the BEMF into a battery and FORGET about it, don't even bother measuring it. than in theory my motor would have a magnetic field capable of producing torque thats not opposed/deteriorated by the bemf and with a dyno reading i should still in theory read a cop of at least over 1? not including whats recycled in the bemf? thats what went through my mind after watching the dvd for a third time. that maybe its possible that an electrically initiated magnetic field could produce more work "mechanically" than was paid for in the electrical input. never mind the BEMF for starters. of course when you add in the BEMF possibilities i get even more excited, keep in mind there are more than one ways to skin a cat. using a battery to suck up the back emf is a great first step. its easy reliable and simpler for your circuit later on i hope to eliminate that step and just add that bemf back into the winding in such a way that it adds to the strength of the field instead of deteriorating it.
BUT FIRST!!! we must understand one of the other critical points of the dvd.
the "air gap". so keep your circuit simple and predictable for now.
if you review the dvd again you will notice how peter describes how in a coil and plunger/piston setup the fields pull is strongest when the piston has completely closed the "air gap". this means there is a solid iron magnetic "raceway" through the inside of and around the outside of your coil, all the air gaps in the iron pathway are minimized.
the air gap has little to do with "air resistance" and adding epoxy will only prevent you from "minimizing" the magnetic air gap between the stator and the rotor, should you decide to have a new rotor made with a larger diameter in order to minimize the air gap like i am doing. If i remember right peter told me that every time you cut the air gap in half you double the pulling power of the magnetic field. So obviously if you double the air gap you cut the strength in half. So in my first motor where i had a new rotor made, due to sloppy work, i ended up with a total air gap of 40 thousands of an inch. So if i made a new rotor for that motor with a total of ten thousands of an inch (5 thouands on each side, about the thickness of a sheet of paper wrapped around the rotor) i would increase the strength of the motor 4 time or 400% stronger!!! do you see the importance of the air gap?

So in review
johns work focuses on absorbing radient energy in a battery
and peters dvd focuses on maximizing the mechancal power produced by a magnetic field by removing the destructive opposing BEMF in the winding. And incidentaly showing us that the heat generated in a standard direct induction electric motor is electrical in origin not mechanical friction as one might assume......

Ok i went i bit long on this post. But i really felt it would be good to clarify some points here for people like me that are on diferent points in the learning curve. And if anybody wants to add anything to this or comment on this please do i love to learn.

Hope this helps!!
Eric

[theremart]

RE: many things

>thanks! i will check out the image software but it looks like it only does

Opps thought your were converting images.. I use Sony Vegas for all my video appliations, not sure if it does Apple stuff...



>THE ONLY SIMILARITY between the two technologies is in the "control >circuit" using a transistor to turn the field on and off sharply. thats where >the similarity stops. remember in johns work the secret is in the way a >battery charges not the monopole motor it self. with the monopole your >pulsing a coil whose magnetic field is "open to the environment" not "closed >down in iron". there was some argument from john himself about how iron >absorbs/wastes all of the "radiant energy" if you read the beginning of this >thread and if i remember correctly peter did not disagree with that fact. >heres whats important.


Both methods charge batteries as you point out there may be a difference in the amount of radiant energy output because of the geometry of the device. Iron being put in the motor was quoted by John in EFTV2, where John quotes Tesla saying not to put iron in a motor because it does not help the output of the motor. Iron is used in the monopole for the core of the coils, the welding rods primarily iron. As well the rotors used were aluminum. I am in no position to compare these two methods, since I do not have the means to measure the results other than the final voltage of the batteries. What I need is a battery with a glass case so I can see the coating of the plates. I was thinking of building one using a usb microscope camera with time lapse to see the effect of different charges. This would be a good way to compare the monopole to Peters motor I do believe, since the chemical plating of the battery is the result I am looking for.



>with the monopole the focus is in studying the amount of "radiant energy >absorbed by the battery" "between" the "triggered spikes" developed from >the monopole motor itself. remember this important fact. "the torque >developed by the spinning monopole is an extra byproduct not the focus of >that project"

I would agree, the target is supercharged batteries with the monopole, with the Teal motor the target is COP >1. This is obtained with the 70% energy recovery, and then the other % optained from the torque output of the motor itself to generate more electricity.

>maybe 4 or the theoretical 8 to 12. but if you ask me i bet if you focus on >using the bemf to "charge batteries better" you will find that the battery will >deteriorate just like a conventional pulse charger would do.

Yes, I am hoping to test this.... I do believe long time testing would prove this answer. I wish to try various energizers with my auto battery swapper to determine which one is the best for my golf cart batteries.


I will take either, supercharged batteries or COP >1 both are acceptable to me


Airgap is VERY important, as I have found out in making my wind generator. I do understand this. CNC is the way to go, along with a well balanced stator.

Many different disciplines involved in making these devices.

Thanks Eric for your insights.

[aladinlamp]

Hi

i just want to make sure i understand this properly, correct me if i am wrong

in this schematics Rotary Attraction Motor Update


1.Electrical energy applied, I-in, creates magnetic field with certain N-S orientation

2.Electrical energy returned,I-out, creates magnetic field with opposite orientation than in step 1.

3.Iron rotor is beeing attracted in both steps 1 and 2.


Is this correct ?

Thanx

[Eric]

Hi

i just want to make sure i understand this properly, correct me if i am wrong

in this schematics Rotary Attraction Motor Update


1.Electrical energy applied, I-in, creates magnetic field with certain N-S orientation

2.Electrical energy returned,I-out, creates magnetic field with opposite orientation than in step 1.

3.Iron rotor is beeing attracted in both steps 1 and 2.


Is this correct ?

Thanx

almost correct, the "I-out" or electrical discharge doesn't create a magnetic field. what happens is first your power is turned on and you create a field. the properties of this fields speed and strength are governed by v=IR, the voltage you put in, the resistance of your winding based on the wires gauge and length, and the amps that that level of resistance allows. but now your field is built, your rotor has been pulled in roughly halfway in, you cut the power off, sharply, (careful here, i hope i am discribing it right) at the very instant you shut the power off, the field wants to flip the polarity and disappear instantly, like less than nanoseconds, but it cant, the copper winding has a level of impedance. this impedance slows down the rate of change or speed at which the field can collapse. this impedance also gives us our voltage out "your I-out" as the field collapses. the level of voltage you get is governed by the impedance of the coil, not V=IR when the field is built. going back to the rotor, first it allready got pulled in part of the way when we built the field, and since iron doesnt care about N/S polarity it continues to get pulled in "as the field is collapsing" you see, your not creating a field when you get the electrical discharge your collapsing it. at least not yet.....

for starters stick with the basic circuit until you fully understand it, and just dump the discharge into a battery, capacitor, lightbulb, or a high watt low ohm block resistor. (ive done them all, its a lot of fun to see how different the motor performs with the different output types!!) currently i am working on another output type, a separate winding, this is a little more difficult, we know from the movie that we dont want 2 different magnetic fields acting against each other in the "same winding" at the same time. but..... if we had another winding electrically isolated from the first but physically part of the same motor we could discharge the output voltage through it, driving electrons through it, building a magnetic field in the "second winding", wiring the circuit so the polarity of both the collapsing field in the first winding and the growing field in the second winding are in "attraction with each other" not in "opposition against each other". i am hoping this will build a stronger or more constant pull on the rotor. giving me more work out the shaft and possibly less needed amperage going in to the motor.

hope that helps!
Eric

[aladinlamp]

for starters stick with the basic circuit until you fully understand it, and just dump the discharge into a battery, capacitor, lightbulb, or a high watt low ohm block resistor. (ive done them all, its a lot of fun to see how different the motor performs with the different output types!!) currently i am working on another output type, a separate winding, this is a little more difficult, we know from the movie that we dont want 2 different magnetic fields acting against each other in the "same winding" at the same time. but..... if we had another winding electrically isolated from the first but physically part of the same motor we could discharge the output voltage through it, driving electrons through it, building a magnetic field in the "second winding", wiring the circuit so the polarity of both the collapsing field in the first winding and the growing field in the second winding are in "attraction with each other" not in "opposition against each other". i am hoping this will build a stronger or more constant pull on the rotor. giving me more work out the shaft and possibly less needed amperage going in to the motor.

hope that helps!
Eric

hi

this is exactly what i had in mind, separate recovery coil like in Bedini systems, arranged in a way, which will keep N/S orientation all the time


Thanx

[Eric]

question about transistor temporarily failing

HI guys!
i got a new video camera that i am playing with so i can upload some video shots soon. still waiting for my machine shop parts again, seems i found anouther shop that likes to put me on the back burner. in the meantime i found that i have several old weedwacker motors so i went ahead and chopped up the old rotor in one of those and got it up and running on the basic circuit. i even used the old copper brushes modified with a little fingernail polish to dial in the ontime windows but my oscope shot on that switch looked pretty "noisy" so now i have a reed switch on it, this gives me a much cleaner shot. also playing with my first motor with the optical switch, for curiosity, i added a reed switch in series with the recieving phototransistor and got some pretty amazing results..... but... now it appears that maybe one of my transistors is failing partially. because my motor spontaniously shuts down for 3 to 5 seconds almost like something is overheating, tuning down the voltage on the led in the opto switch seems to improve the problem, so i am curious if anybody knows what might be causing the damage? to the phototransistor? here is the original circuit. it doesnt have the reed switch added on to it. r2-r5 are 100ohm and r6 and r7 are 300ohm the PSU is actually only running around 25v not the 60v listed thats just a max voltage



thanks!
Eric

[kokerich]

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum, and I am old thinker of free energy
I think the one problem is in the diode nte125, I think it should be reversed like in original Peter's schematic.
In your schematic 12v battery is constantly running the coil and when photo transistor opens, 2n3055 also opens, so the PSU is running the current through the coil and through the battery. The battery could never be charged this way. It's like when you are charging the car battery with reversed polarity it is more like quick DIScharge rather than charge.

[Eric]

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum, and I am old thinker of free energy
I think the one problem is in the diode nte125, I think it should be reversed like in original Peter's schematic.
In your schematic 12v battery is constantly running the coil and when photo transistor opens, 2n3055 also opens, so the PSU is running the current through the coil and through the battery. The battery could never be charged this way. It's like when you are charging the car battery with reversed polarity it is more like quick DIScharge rather than charge.

lol sorry about that. i lost some of my files and i think this might be an older version of my schematic, and am have trouble with how to orient the symbols properly but trust me, physically the diode is in the right direction, ive tried both ways and the results are pretty obvious when you run the motor. i went ahead and replaced the sensor... again..... this time i have a diode coming off the collector of the sensor to the base of the P transistor. it seems to be working fine now. i will post some videos soon, i just need a little more time to iron things out.

thanks!
Eric

[vzon17]

New guy here. Watched the Motor secrets DVD a few times

So its nice to be in contact with others of silmilar interest.

There are a couple of things in the video I would like to address. In the section where Peter analyses the Bob Teal motor schematic, it showed there being two windings on each solenoid, no mention was made why this was.
I figure it was maybe Teal doubled up on the windings to reduce resistance.

It gave me another idea in my motor obsessed mind though and that what if one would put two solenoid coils right one behind the other to increase length of power stroke. then wire them up so the collapse of the first coil dumps into the second one for additional pull.

What about the thought of having two winding on one coil and one winding has many more turns on it than the other. then collect the collapse of the part that has the higher turns. I wonder if this would give more voltage so that one could in part compensate for some resistance that way. Then dump the higher voltage to another coil or use it to charge or power something.

I found a diagram that showed a different way to build the attraction motor which may be more effiecient also. I cant get the webpage from overunity to load but I did save the graphic.
http://photoman.bizland.com/index.gif

Thats all for now.
V

[Aaron]

2 wires

...Bob Teal motor schematic, it showed there being two windings on each solenoid, no mention was made why this was.
I figure it was maybe Teal doubled up on the windings to reduce resistance.

It gave me another idea in my motor obsessed mind though and that what if one would put two solenoid coils right one behind the other to increase length of power stroke. then wire them up so the collapse of the first coil dumps into the second one for additional pull.

Hi V,

You're maybe the 3rd or 4th one to touch on this concept. What are some other possibilities for the 2 windings?

[vzon17]

Possibilites of two windings in teal motor.

Well there are some possibilities with modifications to two windings. the way it showed on the schematic though was they were jsut hooked in parallel. I just tried hooking two solenoids end to end and connected a diode between them and energized the front one in hopes that when I turned the front one off the collapsing field would go through the diode to energize the second coil and pull the rod into the second coil. didnt seem to work that way.

The other possibliity is that he wound the second coil the opposite direction to the first. I dont hear anybody talking about that ever. There is a left handed coil and a right handed coil so I wonder what happens when you wind them both on the same core and hook them in parallel. the polarity of the magnetic field does not change its still goes the same direction. but I wonder if it affects the magnetic flux any.

But when you wind a coil going back and forth from end to end you are creating both left and right handed coils. I wonder if this is where back EMF comes from. maybe if one winds a coil so it is only right hand or left hand something would change. It wolud be hard to do however as it wolud end up being a series of pancake coils stacked together and hooked in series. but might be worth a try. pancake coils are intresting becaues they are not left hatd or right hand becaues you can just flip them over to reverse them. with a long coil you cant do that as they are mirror images of each other. You can prove that by winding a couple of coil from a few inches of wire.

So other possibilites are that if one could open the circuit of just one of the coils and then switch it to a different circuit it would hook the two coils in series and the collapse of the field would then be going through double the length of wire. kind of like switching the setup from parallel to series suddenly.

Anywway thats enough of the speculation on my part.

[vzon17]

One more modification possibility of two coils, teal

There could also be two coils back to back so that you get a power stroke going in and one going out. After all this as not a combustion engine so no reason you cant power stroke the piston twice, coming and going. And if you wanted to add a third thing put a pancake coil in top of the piston to repel of an aluminum disk.
YouTube - 8 Capacitor washer launcher