Electric Motor Secrets

[captainpecan]

A quote from Peter's video, Electric Motor Secrets: "These concepts are universal, and can be applied to hundreds of design topologies. Even more exciting is the fact that electric generators can be designed to provide no back EMF operation as well!"

This is the question I have. Has Peter ever posted or said anything that has gone more in depth in this aspect?

[Eric]

yes a no BEMF generator can be built but it requires a very diferent design geomitry. this thread focuses on the attraction "motor". remember the extra energy is not found in the electrical circuit, but in the shaft output after you recycle 70% of your input energy and fine tune your design to run with the BEMF "helping" your motor torque instead of destroying it. once that is done run a prony brake test on the shaft and see what your energy out is.

i just finnished rewinding my motor. i had 2 strands at 22 feet of 20 gauge wire, about .23 ohms per strand(i thought it was 18 oops i was wrong!) i rewound it with 2 strands 26 gauge at about 90ft now i have 4.1 ohms per strand. now the motor runs much better! i am still tweaking it so i will post photos (hopefully a movie) later.

cheers!
Eric

[LowTechIsCool]

motor balance

Jetijs,

I was curious if the loud sound from your motor is caused by the rotor scraping on the stator?

Just a thought for later, but I am thinking that it would be possible to set up hall effect sensor's that could detect when the rotor is closer to one side of the stator or the other, and have that information go to the motor control and offset the current on one side or the other to keep the motor more balanced.



-chris

[Jetijs]

Hi Chris
No that is not the case. The air gap is so small (0.08mm) that if the stator would touch the rotor even the slightest bit, at those speeds a considerable amount of heat would be produced because of the friction. This would make the rotor metal expand and at those air gaps even the slightest expansion would soon cause the rotor to lock down. I had this problem several times. I noticed that the sound gets louder if the inductive spike is not captured, but even if it is captured, the noise is very loud I don't know what makes it, but it is definitely not the touching of rotor and stator

[eternalightwithin]

Any progress on this Jetji? I'd like to start up my own motors soon.

[Jetijs]

Sorry, no progress yet. Both motors are sitting on a shelf and waiting for better days I am too busy with other things right now.

[Eric]

ok here at last is a video some more pictures and notes for the first test run of my third motor the coils consist of 2 power wires 26awg about 90 feet long measureing at about 4ohms each. when i rewound the motor i decided i wanted to play with a passive sense wire as well so there is a third winding at 32 awg 90ft and reads about 16ohms each.

the circuit in the video is only using one power winding so its running at half strength right now. its using the top and borom poles wound in series giving a total of 8 ohms. in this run i have set up 1 transistor for each switch and added some extra diodes so i could use my oscope to adjust the green felt vibration dampers. this gives me a more solid on time. after that i just decided to film my vid before going back to 4 switches turning on 1 transistor.
i wish to start with the most basic circuit, log some notes and add changes/advancements 1 step at a time. the circuit i am building is very plug and play so i can alter the circuit very easily.

here is here are some pics on constructing the coils




here is a circuit diagram


and here are some log notes of the first run

the only reason that 2 of the transistors have different resistors than the other 2 is i could find enough of the same ohms in my supply at the time.


here is the test video. its a little rough, my fancier hd camera quit working and wasted a lot of my time so i am using a video feature on a digital still camera i have. it outputs .mov files and i am trying out the avs4you software video converter before purchasing it if anyone can recomend a better package i am all ears.
YouTube - first video test of version 3 motor

cheers!
Eric

[tjnlsn255]

EFV DVD Part 14

Has anyone seen the EFV Part 14 DVD about the Lockridge device?

I am thinking about buying the DVD but I want to know if it actually talks about and/or shows how the device is made?

I hope it is ok to ask this question here? If not feel free to delete it....:-)

Be happy....

Tj

[Turion]

Motor design

Peter,
I live in San Jose, CA. Have access to custom motor fabrication facility. If you give me the specs and design info, I will have two custom motors built, one for a friend in Brazil to duplicate my replication efforts. Are the designs posted here as good as it gets, angle of stator faces (70 degrees), shape of rotor and stator, air gap (.08 or less per side), material of rotor and stator (siicon steel laminate .35mm per plate or less)? Is there anything else I need to know before I have this done? I only want to do this once since I am on limited budget. I will hen have the contact and cost info available for anyone else who wants to replicate. I have seen some discussions of the rotor made of a permanent magnet. Would you advise this? I am having the case, rotor and stator and bearings done, but will do the winding myself to save cost. Also, I want to KNOW how many winds there are, the direction, how they are twisted, etc.

[Turion]

Motor design

My next goal is then to contact ANOTHER company who builds plastic sleeves that could be wound in my shop and slipped onto the arms of the stator, so that I can experiment with different winding designs, lengths, numbers of wires, etc. But the first step is the motor case, stator and rotor. If the housing should be made of anything specific or the bearings, please let me know. I want this to be the "perfect" motor so that we have eliminated as many variables as possible before we start with the fun!

I know you are posting on other threads, like the rotoverter thread, so I hope you will have time to help me in this replication project. I think it will be worth your while since there will be two of us using exactly the same motor and if others are interested in jumping in, I can get a cost breakdown for them and we could all start at the same time. What do you think?

[Peter Lindemann]

No Final Design

My next goal is then to contact ANOTHER company who builds plastic sleeves that could be wound in my shop and slipped onto the arms of the stator, so that I can experiment with different winding designs, lengths, numbers of wires, etc. But the first step is the motor case, stator and rotor. If the housing should be made of anything specific or the bearings, please let me know. I want this to be the "perfect" motor so that we have eliminated as many variables as possible before we start with the fun!

I know you are posting on other threads, like the rotoverter thread, so I hope you will have time to help me in this replication project. I think it will be worth your while since there will be two of us using exactly the same motor and if others are interested in jumping in, I can get a cost breakdown for them and we could all start at the same time. What do you think?

Dear Turion,

Thank you for your enthusiasm for this project. No final designs have been developed for this motor concept, for a number of reasons.

First, this is a learning forum, where people can learn about the "attraction motor" process and combine that with electrical recovery.

Second, this is a long thread, and early on I told people that the BEST designs would not be a "variable reluctance" topology, like we are working with here, but a "constant reluctance" topology. This sort of design would allow electrical recovery to approach 95% while producing high torque.

Third, like Jetijs, I have been deeply effected by the "economic downturn" and have not been able to put any time into this project (or any other project) since the summer of 2008.

Fourth, I have decided to develop these designs in 3D simulators from now on, so all of the mistakes can be worked out quickly, and cheaply, and the specifications for a real, working motor with high COP can be finalized. But right now, I am 100% busy, working to make a living.

Please do not think you can just build a motor and have it work perfectly. You can see what Jetijs and Eric are going through. If you build something before you do a complete engineering study of the design, you are building a prototype of an experimental motor. In other words, you are just running an EXPERIMENT.

I appreciate your interest, but in all honesty, this project simply isn't far enough along for you to do what you want to do.

Peter

[Peter Lindemann]

Eric, Awesome Work

Eric,

Glad to see you are at it again!! Here are a couple of ideas that may help. You might try using lower value resistors in your commutator section, like 220 ohm or even 100 ohm. You could also try to just connect the Collector to the Base through the commutator contact, with no resistors at all, as a simple "forward bias" arrangement. What you want to watch out for is protecting the Base of the transistor from the inductive spike. Another simple method is to use the H11D1 opto-isolator. The commutator can be used to simply turn on the LED side and the output can be used to Darlington the transistor on.

The commutator won't spark if there is very little current and no inductance in the circuit being switched. When the transistors are slammed on and off quickly, they shouldn't heat up much, at all. Still, you might consider putting heat sinks on them.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[Jetijs]

Hi all,
It's been a while since my last post in this thread. I have nothing new to tell yet, because as Peter said, I am busy with other and not so interesting things right now. Anyway, I wanted to tell that last week I held a lecture about Bedini devices and Peters attraction motors at local particle physics institute. They organize seminars each month and many other enthusiasts like me visit those seminars. The main topics there is renewable energy. Anyway, I shared what I know and demonstrated my attraction motor. I used V2.0 motor to show the principles, I made everything so that I could put the inductive spikes to the front side capacitor using a switch when the motor was running. At 12v it rotated at about 3500RPM, was loud and consumed 2.4A of current. When I flipped the switch, the current consumption suddenly dropped to 1.4A, the motor became much quieter and the RPM's increased noticeably. That was a real eye opener for many of the people there, everyone was very interested. I will make a short video that demonstrated this, so I can promote this technology further and maybe someone with more free time and resources will be able to bring this thing to the next level.
Also just then I realized why this current waveform of V2.0 motor looks like it does:


This image shows the short current pulses that fill the whole 70 degree attraction window, they all are equal in duration, but nevertheless each next pulse gets shorter and shorter in amplitude. This is because already at air gaps of 0.13mm the varying core inductance trend starts to show itself and it gets even more obvious if the air gaps are even smaller, like this waveform with 0.08mm air gap:



All this need to be taken into account when building such motors. I should have realized this earlier. But what can you do, you never stop learning

I hope this helps someone.

Jetijs

[Eric]

thanks!

Eric,

Glad to see you are at it again!! Here are a couple of ideas that may help. You might try using lower value resistors in your commutator section, like 220 ohm or even 100 ohm. You could also try to just connect the Collector to the Base through the commutator contact, with no resistors at all, as a simple "forward bias" arrangement. What you want to watch out for is protecting the Base of the transistor from the inductive spike. Another simple method is to use the H11D1 opto-isolator. The commutator can be used to simply turn on the LED side and the output can be used to Darlington the transistor on.

The commutator won't spark if there is very little current and no inductance in the circuit being switched. When the transistors are slammed on and off quickly, they shouldn't heat up much, at all. Still, you might consider putting heat sinks on them.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

hi!

thanks! nice to hear from you, hope your thanksgiving went well. sorry the econnomy is hitting you as well. its taken its toll on me (cut hours at work) and (and this is good news) i am gonna be a dad! so my project got shelved again but i will be back on it hear in a week or two. i should have posted more of my notes i have a whole mess of notes i have yet to post. in these tests i found 300hms to work well for a 12 to 30volt supply. in my earlier motors i allready new that 100 to 200ohms was too low, the resistors would get hot! with this current circuit and the new smaller gauge winding the mjl trannys run nice and cool... lol i was having a brain fart trying to figure out why you would recomend connecting the base to the collector i tried removing the resistors before and blew a tranny! then (duh!) i realized that by doing that i would be placing the motor coils between the + source and the base effectivly giving me a low ohms resistor between those to points. (lol why didnt i see that!) so i will try it, but unless there is a difference in using a coil wound resistor (the motor coil in this case) as opposed to a semiconductor type resistor i think the 8 ohms in the motor coil will still be way too low eather causing too much heat in the tranny or blowing out all together. as for sparking i dont have any sparking when i use the commutator
to control the base of the transistor. i only had sparking when trying to remove the tranny from the circuit and run all the power through the commutator!! i have yet to find a good mechanical solution to that. i have been trying to read up on sparksnubber concepts but i have yet to find good reference materiel on how to design a good snubber circuit specific for this type of application.

when i have some time i will post some more notes, hope all goes well with you and your work.

cheers!
Eric

[Turion]

"Please do not think you can just build a motor and have it work perfectly. You can see what Jetijs and Eric are going through. If you build something before you do a complete engineering study of the design, you are building a prototype of an experimental motor. In other words, you are just running an EXPERIMENT.

I appreciate your interest, but in all honesty, this project simply isn't far enough along for you to do what you want to do."

Peter,
Believe me, I have read every word of this thread, have watched your video several times, and understand that what I would be building would be nothing more than an experimental model. All I am looking for is as much information a I can get from those who have gone before so that I can take advantage of their experience. I do not know everything that Eric and Jetijs have gone through except for what has been posted here. From their experiences I have made tons of notes regarding the steps they took, their designs, and the materials and parts they used, and I intend to have a motor built that incorporates the best information available to me. I was just wondering if there was anything else you would suggest in addition to what has been presented at this site. Otherwise, I am going to have my motor built and then let the fun of trying to get it to do what it is supposed to do begin! I am used to beating my head against the wall, only I am one of those guys who doesn't give up until the wall is reduced to powder regardless of the consequences to my head!