Electric Motor Secrets

[Peter Lindemann]

Excellent Question!

Hallo Peter I have seen your new design. This indeed would indeed work better maybe. And is more easy to make. But on the other hand we are looking at 'just' a regular Variable- or Switched reluctance motor are we not?
Nothing wrong with that of course, but as far as I see it the Bemf circuit is 'kind of' the only novel thing here. But these variable or switched reluctance drives are somewhat problematic to run and need smart driving circuits that can advance, elongate or retard the pulses on the fly based on system load and speed. Most of them also have a minute 'demagnetization' pulse to help speedup the collapse time of the coil/core section and so allow for higher rpm's. Since 'metal slowness' in flux change can be problematic.

http://www.energie.ch/themen/industrie/antriebe/sr.jpg

Switched Reluctance Drives

http://www.sovereign-publications.co...s/picture1.jpg

http://www.sapiensman.com/ESDictiona...ges/motor1.jpg

SWITCHED-RELUCTANCE MOTOR

SWITCHED RELUCTANCE MOTOR - Google Afbeeldingen Zoekmachine

Regards,
Steven

Steven and Everybody,

As is evident in the links you post, switched reluctance motors can be very powerful and very efficient in conventional terms. The purpose of my DVD is to provoke original thought in the mind of the viewer by showing that even a well understood phenomena like back EMF can be looked at in a fresh way.

I do not claim to have invented anything. What I am proposing is more of a new METHOD of operating these machines, then anything else. The point is, when a coil of wire wrapped around an iron core is turned ON, it produces a magnetic field. That magnetic field can then be used to attract a piece of iron, producing mechanical energy. Then the coil can be turned OFF, and the collapsing magnetic field will induce a new pulse of electricity that can be recaptured by the circuitry. In well designed systems, the magnetic field can continue to produce more mechanical energy even while it is decaying. The combined mechanical energy produced from both the applied electrical energy AND the recovered electrical energy both act in the forward direction. Because the electrical energy recovered by the circuit can continue to produce more mechanical energy, properly designed systems should be able to exceed the total mechanical outputs of other types of motors for their respective inputs. The electricity recovered can off-set the electricity applied to run the motor, but both can produce mechanical energy that is additive in the forward direction. That is the METHOD of operation I am suggesting. To the best of my knowledge, this is a new METHOD of running an electric motor. The method can be applied to dozens of geometries.

The switched reluctance motor designs shown on these links will not work well with this new method I am proposing because they all show a COMMON STATOR connection. The coils turn ON and OFF, but the magnetic field is always present in the stator core. The coils are just shifting the location of the POLES as they are presented to the rotor. The field never really turns OFF. This is partly why they need all the extra neutralizing coils and things.

Granted, the designs I am proposing are simplified, even stylized, to help you understand the CONCEPT of operation. There are definitely subtleties to the operations of these motors that I do not discuss. If you build something, you will start to see these things. But at least you will be at a point of doing something genuinely new and learning to optimize a promising design.

John's methods of electrical energy recovery are ONE HALF of this method. They are a very important half, but they are only half. The other half is the optimization of motor torque in the rotor-stator interaction. The amount of torque possible here is based on the magnetic field strength, the minimization of the air gap in the magnetic circuit, the geometry of the pole face interaction between the rotor and stator, and the timing. The METHOD I am proposing brings these two halves together to produce a motor that takes best advantage of both.

Currently, there are NO switched reluctance motors that I am aware of that run on these principles.

I hope this helps.

Peter

[nali2001]

To Lindemann

Hello Peter it is true that you idea is not the same as the variable reluctance motors from the examples. And I for one do like the DVD, love to see someone try to help one other. And the idea of back emf recovery is a very useful one. But like you said there are some details that can't be all explained in a 2.5 hour video. For example, the back emf can only be recovered up to the saturation point of the steel obviously. But in my tests it was necessary to pulse the cores much longer in order to get some useful torque. The Teal patens show very super short pulses due to the commutator. But unless it was some mega capacitor blast I doubt that such a short pulse will be sufficient. So in other words the required pulse in most cases needs to be longer than can be recovered afterwards. These things are vital to solve. And maybe switching to fast materials like Metglass will solve most of them, but it will be out of the budget of most home builders...

Steven

[Peter Lindemann]

Thank you John and Aaron!

Everybody,

John has graciously posted some short movies on the Bedini Advanced forum showing a simple magnetic attraction motor running with his electrical energy recovery. He also addresses pole shaping, and field biasing, which are advanced ideas that come up when fine tuning some designs. Thank you, John!

Also, thank you Aaron for starting the other threads so discussion here can stay focussed on the magnetic attraction designs.

Peter

[Eric]

hi heres a neat little visual aid showing some existing motor design geomeitry.
http://www.st.com/stonline/products/...rial/motor.swf
this could be useful if you want to learn whats existing and how they might be similar/different to the designs we are discussing. maybe this will help you peter in answering peoples future questions on diferent motor types (like the switched reluctance motor) and where they fall short in design principle. i am curious as it does look remarkably similar (and powerful!!) to what we are after. my minds eye can sort of see how if you fire 2 pole at the same time then both magnetic fields would create a cemf in each other. but.. what if only 1 pole fired at a time in series around the loop. with the other coil circuts left open they would only see a voltage out (no closed circut with electrons creating an opposing mag field) so they would not oppose each other. would this satisfy a c shape concept. or are we losing the ability to create torque by doing this?

do we have an organized means for storing links we might want to refer back to? i can see how things might get messy here as the list gets longer making it dificult for a new comer to catch up to where we left off often times causing them to ask questions that have allready been answered. it would be nice to archive some information in more oranized fashion like whats available in the yahoo groops files/photos/links section.

thanks!
Eric

[Aaron]

opposing coils wound opposite

if you fire 2 pole at the same time then both magnetic fields would create a cemf in each other. but.. what if only 1 pole fired at a time in series around the loop. with the other coil circuts left open they would only see a voltage out (no closed circut with electrons creating an opposing mag field) so they would not oppose each other. would this satisfy a c shape concept. or are we losing the ability to create torque by doing this?

cool flash tutorial on the motors.

Wouldn't it make sense if 2 coils are opposing 180 that one is wound so north is facing the rotor and the oppositve has south facing the rotor so when they both pulse at the same time the magnetic fields aren't opposing?

[sykavy]

Hi all,

I've posted an update on the design for the rotary attraction motor. It works better and is easier to make than the "S" rotor. This design goes back to the ideas that worked very well in the Flux Motor. I hope this helps more people start building units that work.

Here is the link:

Rotary Attraction Motor Update

Peter

Hi Peter

I for one am glad you produce what you produce. Thanks to John Bedini and others. Im not a gear head but i do think im a good judge of character and i think you and John are the real thing.
From all that i have read on the web i have seen a continuity of thought on these radiant energy things. I see it as Tesla ( and others of his day, even a Brazilian Catholic Priest!) Schauberger,George CONSTANTINESCO. EV Gray, Richard CLEM, Eugene FRENETTE, Karl SCHAEFFER, Stan Meyers, John Bediniand James L. GRIGGS . They are all dealing with pulsation (electricity, water, air) at high pressure (voltage). They all seemed to have been working on some new way of tapping energy in a new way. This continuity of simular thinking but different materials is very interesting.

I for one am very excited to get your new DVD. I have read your book on "Cold Electricity" a dozen times. Very good!

(Sorry though i have watched your older tesla videos on google also very good!)

My problem is i have reached the point that i would like to do some experimenting but since i have no background in electicity or motors, i dont know were to begin. Id like to join an experimentation group if they exist. Most "normal" electricians and gear heads look at me like i have two heads when i speak about this stuff. Any practicle suggestions? I live in Chicago area.

PS patience is the mother of all virtue

[Eric]

to sykavy

i say if you have no formal education in this field, your on the right track!! LOL
Peters dvd was my first look inside understanding electric motors and i think im more open to being taught because someone else hasnt spoon fed me these "basics" in school so i am not going to assume i allready "know about this stuff" like so many others ive met have. how to start? 2 things ive learned. 1 if you're genuinly interested and not just curious, and you have a desire or reason to learn. than all you need are some good books to brush up on some basics (like i'm doing!) and dont be afraid to go fourth seek some open minded friends who can answer any questions you might have from reading those books!! 2 is ive learned that "one mans garbage is anouther mans treasure" dont jump out and spend a bunch of money on new materials and fancy tools right away only to waste it if your not sure what your doing with it. first watch the dvd as many times as it takes untill you can start understanding the "what and why" we are looking for in a single coil on an iron core with a rotor that completes the magnetic loop. then try finding old "free" appliances (like the junk microwave i took apart) and look for parts that might have laminated cores and maybe a coil even attached!! study these parts in your hands and try to determine if you can hack, bend, warp, twist, turn, or modify in any other way the existing structure of the part to utilize the "concepts" you learn from the dvd. might be good to make sure your modifications wont cost more than starting from scratch!!. if you have friends or family who are machinists use them!!! i dont yet so im getting charged a minimum of $120 for my project from a local machine shop that has the required tools. personaly i feel its more than worth it to fork out the money because thats the level of my determination. you have to pick your level.

[Peter Lindemann]

Sykavy, where to begin...

Thank you for your compliments. Its nice to hear that what I am presenting is understandable.

The best place to start in this process is to build a Bedini SG motor exactly as the project is presented on the builder sites. Rick Friedrich's MONOPOLE 3 group on Yahoo is one of the best places to start. With this motor, you will be able to study the process of the electrical energy recovery in its purest form.

Build a model of this and run it and study it and fine tune it until you can routinely recover over 90% of the electrical energy. When you are familiar and comfortable with this part of the system, then build a SECOND model that has an optical or hall-effect commutator, and study it until you can recover 90% of the electrical energy. Both of the first two models will have magnets on the rotor. Then move on to the attraction motor principle with your THIRD model. This third model will only have an iron rotor, with no magnets.

In this process, always build a completely new model for the next step and leave all of your earlier models in full running condition. Never take a working model apart to use its parts to build the next model. In order to learn properly, you must be able to go back, at a moment of insight, and look at the operation of the earlier models to see the subtle differences in behavior.

Best wishes,

Peter

[Eric]

cool flash tutorial on the motors.

Wouldn't it make sense if 2 coils are opposing 180 that one is wound so north is facing the rotor and the oppositve has south facing the rotor so when they both pulse at the same time the magnetic fields aren't opposing?

um when i said cemf wasnt thinking of the magnetic fields directly affecting each other, magneto motive force (mmf), as opposed emf. an mmf will enter the coil creating an electrical force (emf) i dont know if the polarity of the cemf is affected by the polarity of the mmf instead of whether mmf is building up or collapsing. i think i still dont know if this creates the opposing voltage polarity or the (north/south) poles of the incoming field creates the opposing voltage polarity. this is a very interesting point i would like to figure out!! maybe i am wrong!! maybe your idea of opposite poles would allow an additive voltage benefit to your outside input instead of an opposing voltage. in terms of magnetic attraction if i understand it right the iron rotor wont care what the poles are doing. the rotors more interested closing the air gap for the given magnetude of flux passing through the loop.

what do you think?
Eric

[sykavy]

thanks

Those sound like practicle ideas. Im a little afraid of working with a microwave circuit in any form. I think I'll try what Peter suggested. The SG looks like something I might be able to handle.
BTW I have found two designs for the SG motor. I thought at first that it was the original but then i noticed it said (simplified). Now i don't know much about this stuff but i think they took out the capacitors, which if i understood well, was very important to get the radiant energy working. Is this simplified one ok for me to use?

Ps humility is truth

[Eric]

hahaha yes i wouldnt actually use the microwave tube in the oven or the HV winding in the transformer but the core in the transformer with out the existing coil might be useful. as for the monopole.. use the simplified circut in the monopole3 yahoo discusion group, as peter said for learning about the recovery circut. the cap setup is more advanced. i built that one myself but i am backpeddling even further right now and reading about how a transistor works because yes i built the monopole but now i realize i still dont fully understand how the circut components interact with each other!! All About Circuits : Free Electric Circuits Textbooks my neighbor found this link for me to study transistiors its pretty readable. and i am still trying to locate a copy of the book peter refers to in his dvd "electricity basics"

cheers!
Eric

[sykavy]

hahaha yes i wouldnt actually use the microwave tube in the oven or the HV winding in the transformer but the core in the transformer with out the existing coil might be useful. as for the monopole.. use the simplified circut in the monopole3 yahoo discusion group, as peter said for learning about the recovery circut. the cap setup is more advanced. i built that one myself but i am backpeddling even further right now and reading about how a transistor works because yes i built the monopole but now i realize i still dont fully understand how the circut components interact with each other!! All About Circuits : Free Electric Circuits Textbooks my neighbor found this link for me to study transistiors its pretty readable. and i am still trying to locate a copy of the book peter refers to in his dvd "electricity basics"

cheers!
Eric

Thanks Eric that site will help a lot.

I hope im not too old to learn this stuff anyway it will make agreat hobby!

Do you have link to that discussion group of SG? Thanks agin for ya'lls kindness

[Aaron]

Bedini Schoolgirl for beginners

Sykavy,

Check this out:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa....html#post1537

I wouldn't even worry about recovery, just build a little roller skate wheel motor like the original school girl and learn the principles of that first. It is a fun little machine. I played with mine for about 6 months before I ever build a charging model, which was the dual battery charger (charged cap and discharge with mechanical pulley).

[sykavy]

Sykavy,

Check this out:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa....html#post1537

I wouldn't even worry about recovery, just build a little roller skate wheel motor like the original school girl and learn the principles of that first. It is a fun little machine. I played with mine for about 6 months before I ever build a charging model, which was the dual battery charger (charged cap and discharge with mechanical pulley).

thanks Aaron!

[CLaNZeR]

Well I received the DVD on really good time, seeing it had to get to the UK.

So popped it in my laptop case and thought I would have a look at it in my Hotel Room one evening this week, as working away from home alot at the moment.

But it will not play in my Laptop DVD , I think this is probably because it is not a pressed DVD but just a DVD-R.

Will try it it my DVD Player when I get home, but what a bummer as actually found a free night to watch it and now even more intrigued to view it after reading this thread.

I am sure it will be worth the wait

Regards

Sean.