Electric Motor Secrets

[Peter Lindemann]

You are on the right track

Peter: Loved the video, learned a lot, spent about a week reading this entire thread from start to end. Here's a couple of points I got out of it that I'd like your opinion if I'm understanding them correctly.

- In the case of the "Cross" style rotor, To me it seems like you'd get most likely max torque/regen if you SHUTOFF the coil right at the perfect alignment point (i.e. rotor/stator perfectly in line) and turned it on at some point PRIOR to there assuming you have the inductance not too high where it limits your speed and efficiency) where the coil/stator does NOT saturate. i.e. Intuitively to me it means to tune your setup so you can turn on the coil when the rotor is just beginning to sweep across the stator, for max attraction and torque, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have to turn it on when it's far away, and if you do to be able to get to decent core saturation, you have too much inductance, or too "slow" or a stator material.

- You need to be aware of the inductance of your stator winding, and the permeability or "magnetic speed" of your stator/rotor material, which will determine max speed, torque charactoristics and required timing, the faster you can charge/discharge the coils the better the speed/torque and regen ability (and overall COP) should be.

Would it be advantageous to use a supercap (1-10 Farad) cap for the "dump site" (to dump the energy from the coil on field collapse), such that it can be reused immediately on the input? Caps are much better at taking huge amounts of energy in/out in short duration, unlike a battery, which I'd think would be more likely to turn that into heat, or boiled electrolyte, more than used completely effectively.

I'm not too interested in charging batteries, but if I can take a motor that puts out X HP at Y RPM and draws Z amps, and do some work and change its configuration, and get it to generate X HP at Y RPM, for 1/5th Z AMPS, then that's a "Good Thing", esp if it doesn't involve having to charge a battery or some other complication...

Thoughts?, Am I way off base?

thanks
-- David

David,

You are on the right track. The most important thing about limiting BEMF is limiting input VOLTAGE. Magnetic field strength can be measured in either Gauss, or "ampere-turns". Notice it is not "watt-turns", as it does not actually require a specific number of watts to produce a specific strength of magnetic field. The DVD was produced 3.5 years ago, and since that time I have been working with a number of people on this concept. We have run hundreds of computer simulations on the method and developed very advanced designs, which I am not free to discuss here, because we have all signed NDAs.

I can tell you that the ideal motor, based on these principles, has a number of characteristics. These are:
1) The coil impedance of the system is quite low, to allow rapid charge and discharge of the coils.
2) The inductance changes very little through the power stroke, to maximize electrical recovery. The way this is accomplished, I cannot discuss.
3) The reluctance of the total magnetic circuit changes very little through the power stroke, as well.
4) Input supply voltage is kept to the lowest value possible by limiting BEMF in the input coils. The methods used to accomplish this, I cannot discuss.
5) Mechanical power production is managed by optimizing the timing, the size of the air-gap, and the total coercive force of the magnetic field across the air-gap, measured in Oersteds.
6) Capacitors are used in the electrical recovery circuitry.

If you think carefully through each of the parameters that must be accomplished, the motor designs itself.

Best of luck,
Peter

[Jetijs]

Hi Peter.
Those are all valid points. Just few days ago I reassembled my V2 motor since it was damaged in a fire. Now it works well again and with the spikes going back intor primary capacitor, even in non optimal timing position, the recovered energy is about 40%. True, we must make the design and coils so that the inductance does not change much no matter on what the rotor position is at the time. I guess one method to achieve this would be increasing the air gap between stator and rotor. For example, this was the current waveform of my V2 motor with air gap of 0.13mm:


As we see this is the waveform we want to see, the current goes up and stays there till the ON pulse is turned off. This means max recovery if the pulses are chopped short enough. And now lets look at current waveform of my V3 motor with air gap of 0.08mm, all the other specs of the motor are about the same, except the coils use a little thinner wire and a few more windings. :



Here we can clearly see that the inductance changes while the rotor aligns to the stator, if we look at the area beneath the wave, that is the energy spent, but the energy that can be recovered from this setup would be somewhat around 5% at best. If we get the RPM's higher, the power impulse gets shorter, like this:


But still, the recovery is very small, we can see that this power impulse needs to be at least 2x shorter to get max recovery back for that pulse.

And the only difference between those two setups is the air gap. Smaller air gap means greater torque (with V3 motor I easily reached RPM's of 12000 at 12v and was afraid to go higher in voltage) but inductance change of the coils becomes a major problem and the recovery goes down. Anyway, 0.08mm air gap is the best thing you can achieve with todays tools, bearings and so on.

One idea how to get around it would be to chop the ON pulse into several smaller ones, each with its own recovery, this would improve the input vs output ratio, but I guess the torque would suffer. Also the thing is that I have never measured the efficiency of my motors, the only motor that efficiency I measured was the Flynn parallel path motor and it was very low in my case, but judging from the torque that I can feel by braking it buy hand, my attraction motors are much easier to slow down for the same power input. I suspect this is because my attraction motors do not have 100% on time, they are on only for 280 degrees out of 360. That means the rotor turns 80 degrees of every revolution on its inertia, thus the easy slowing down by hand. To go around this I would make two motors with their rotors coupled together at an 45 degree angle, so that when one rotates by its inertia, other one has its power pulse. This way we get 100 overall ON time BTW all my pictures and schematics on this subject can now be found here:
Jeti stuff: Jeti stuff » Lindemana motors

[krysolet]

attraction motor

Hi all, I like to show you my work. After some experiments i found this type of motor and I try to make it.
So I start with iron core 1x1cm, lenght about 40 cm with cross rotor, two widdings for 200 loops. Input voltage 24V, current /measured with analog A meter/ 1,5A and RPM 3333 Then I found circuit what Jetjis and Mr. Lindemann drawn and I use it. RPM goes ut to 4000 RPM and currend goes to 1Amp. Then I try some experiments with pulsed optobridge.schcema.JPG

TN_090720104427.JPG

TN_090720104436.JPG

TN_090720104431.JPG

[krysolet]

triangle core

And than I like to attach some generator to this motor. I found one fan with 48V /200W widding. Classic principle like PC fan. And after some research I tried iron core with triangle shape. So, I do it right now and I must do some measurment but I like to show you another pictures..TN_160920104670.JPG

TN_230920104688.JPG

TN_270920104707.JPG

TN_270920104703.JPG

TN_270920104702.JPG

TN_270920104705.JPG

[RAMSET]

Gents,
Some really amazing electric motor secrets!

The Thane Heinz, AKA Boom Boom ,CrankyPants, Man Zilla
I can Do 2700%[to infinate] OU, What can you do info?

JUST POSTED DOCUMENTS
Right here
Login

and he is available for Input and replication here

Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER

Just making you aware of whats happening at this univercity with Thane Heinz.
discuss this wherever you wish!



Chet

[alaina]

Well great post i justr know anbout the renewable energy and its advantages and disadvantages, but using this for electric motor is a meaningful information.
Renewable energ is used for generating electricity that can be used at homes and business.

renewable energy | wind power | wind turbine | wind turbine uk | wind power uk

[RAMSET]

Here's a motor design you're gonna love!!

Chet
PS
The more I watch it the more I like it!!

YouTube - selfrunning working permanent magnet motor from Roobert33

[Harvey]

Here's a motor design you're gonna love!!

Chet
PS
The more I watch it the more I like it!!

YouTube - selfrunning working permanent magnet motor from Roobert33

Too bad the battery holders . . . I mean upright supports are not transparent

Sadly, they are large enough to not only house a battery stack but also a motor to drive the axle. All that is needed in that regard is the energy addition necessary to lift the stator magnet out of the conservative loop.

Because the cam would provide a gravity assist in normal conditions, it would have been good to see the device at rest with the cam down. If it truly worked as shown, without any momentum, it would settle calmly to a minimum point of gravitational potential energy balance with the magnetic fields. But if the rotor was driven by a motor, it would not come to rest in this way, but would begin bobbing as it tries to lift the cam against the gravitational minimum and finds its resonant position.

Since these two conditions are avoided (transparent supports, natural state of rest) the video is suspect.

That being said, I have shown with my M.A.P. tests that energy can be extracted from these two conservative fields when they are separated properly into non conservative parts. This device may exhibit such a separation. In my tests, mathematical projections showed there was approximately 10x the energy available for extraction than was required to drive the trigger mechanism. So while the output energy was minuscule, it was cumulative.

Why has Roobert33 removed the video?
YouTube - Roobert33's Channel

[elias]

Hi all, I like to show you my work. After some experiments i found this type of motor and I try to make it.
So I start with iron core 1x1cm, lenght about 40 cm with cross rotor, two widdings for 200 loops. Input voltage 24V, current /measured with analog A meter/ 1,5A and RPM 3333 Then I found circuit what Jetjis and Mr. Lindemann drawn and I use it. RPM goes ut to 4000 RPM and currend goes to 1Amp. Then I try some experiments with pulsed optobridge.

Hi

I saw this post of yours, thought to tell you: USE MUCH MORE WINDINGS, as much as you its distance from your core material does not get so much, and then tell us about your results. My motor does not have much space in it for increasing the windings. each winding you add, contributes to the overall magnetic field, while decreasing the current draw, so you will have a much more efficient motor at the end. My Newman machine uses about 14kg of copper, and it is about 90% efficient. I can hardly say that it exceeds 100% but it is fairly efficient. Dr Lindemann's design has some advantages, and the main one is that it is BEMF Free unlike Newman's machine which turns really slowly, because of the LARGE BEMF, due to a rotating magnet inside a very large coil.

And also, for reference, my Lindemann type of motor, is operated on about 50 volts, it draws about 0.6A and goes upto about 6000RPM, The mechanical efficiency of the motor is about 20-30% at best, and the recovery is about 50% at best. I suspect that increasing the windings can decrease the current draw, while, making the mechanical power output remains the same.

GOOD LUCK

Elias

[vidbid]

Benjiman Robert "Bob" Teal

BENJIMAN ROBERT "BOB" TEAL

MAGNETEAL INDUSTRIES, INC

INFORMATION SOURCE #1: tesla3.com

INFORMATION SOURCE #2: free-energy.ws

INFORMATION SOURCE #3: rexresearch.com

INFORMATION SOURCE #4: esmhome.org

See: Energetic Forum Thread: Lindemann Attraction Motor

[nathan571]

Hello all,

Thank you Peter for sharing this concept, and to everyone who shared their progress and ideas. Drawing from the info in this thread, and hopefully adding some ideas of my own, I would like to share my ideas. Hopefully the pictures will download ok.
Picture 1, I like Peter's early concept presented in the video with the 4 opposing c-cores. This appeals to me because it uses the flux generated at both poles for motive power. It isn't as robust as the radial type motors presented here, but it is good for efficiency. The motor I would like to begin building will have adjustable stators. This will help in reducing airgap. It's just a cheap way to do it. The stator keeper pieces must be made of super strong plastic. A plastic made like G-10 would more than suffice. A tight weave of any strong cloth like fiber is dipped in epoxy and lightly squeegied. it's then laid up in a mold being careful of airbubbles. when all the layers are in place, a weight is set on top of a mold top piece that fits like a piston in a cylinder. This squeezes out excess epoxy. The result is a super strong part.
The other part I am eager to build is the timing mechanism that consists of an engagement lever that can advance or retard timing. The pulse width and type can be adjusted by the sliding photo reflective sensor. Both functions can be controlled while the motor is underway. This saves a lot of time experimenting with different control parameters. I look forward to posting my results. If anyone has any suggestions on it, please let me know.
I'm hoping the control circuit wont be too difficult to come up with. One similar to Jetijs's would work well. But I would like to only use one opto, so I will need to use a counter chip or something to split the signal into 2 outputs, 1 for each coil set. I found 1 photo reflective switch that may have high enough speeds, the toshiba tl907. Anyways, I will post when I have something done.
Nathan

[vidbid]

Bob Teal Motor Is A No-Back-EMF Motor

I am convinced that the Bob Teal Motor is a No-Back-EMF Motor, providing you provide a path for the transient inductive spike from the coil to go somewhere, for example, to a load or to charge another battery.

YouTube - Bob Teal | Magnipulsion| Missing Interview

[brusers]

Peg motor

Jetijs,

Hello there. I was looking at your pics on the link you gave a few posts back and the first one caught my eye. On the thread "Resonance - nice and simple" Armagdn03 had posted information about a motor he calls the peg motor or universe engine. And the first picture you have looked like the same thing. I was just wondering if you have done any work with this idea or if you plan too?

I've watched both electric motor secret videos, and just today finished this electric motor secrets thread. And I must say it's hard to focus on anything else during my day. Electric motors are interesting enough, several of you here have taken it to a whole new level. I need to go back through and make some serious notes. So thank you for documenting everything and all the input you have provided. To you too Peter of course for the movies and the guidance here in the thread. Great information indeed.

I should be getting some things machined soon as soon as I get a solid idea of what I want to do, this peg motor being my first interest. And maybe this summer I can add a little to the thread when I have time to play and test.

Armagdn03 I know I asked you about this motor on the other thread, and I know you are reading these, lol.. maybe this would be a better place to comment on my questions? Other post is "Resonance - nice and simple" post 46.

Marcel

[FRC]

Robert49

You could try posting this on the Lockridge device thread or Electricity's Watson
Machine thread. Since those threads are more active right now and are also motor related. Someone with more experience than I have should be able to help you.

George

[Harvey]

Dr. Peter Lindemann or anyone who can enlighten me.

This is my Rotary attraction motor experiment.

14 inch diameter
Two 8-coil stators and two rotors.
Each coil is opposite polarity with the next.
All 8 coils on each stator are 400 turns tri-filar #24 awg connected in parallel.
Total impedance measured for each stator is 0.9 mh .
The 2 rotors are offset by 22.5 degrees and fired in sequence.
Optical timing with pulse duration controlled by 555.
Driving voltage is 15.5 volt.
Giving out spikes over 1300 volt,blowing up 1200volt 595watt transistors.
Using a 100 watt bulb to control the spikes and protect my circuit.
anything else I try i.e. 2000volt capacitor,battery, results in motor stopping and circuit going in strong oscillation
with light bulb very bright.(probably higher voltage.)

Your input would be greatly appreciated if you can spare the time.

Thanks

Robert

Hi Robert,

It could be that the peak current is too great for the transistor rating.

Also, the transistor may not support repetitive avalanche.

One thing you may wish to incorporate is a means to dump the BEMF into the next inductor sequence - in other words, capture the BEMF with diodes routed to the opposite rotor coils such that as the fields collapse on one rotor, the energy is routed to power the other rotor.

One way to control the peak voltage of the spike is to widen its discharge time. Very narrow discharge times result in high voltage spikes. The faster a transistor "turns off", the higher the spike can be. Of course lingering the on time can have the negative effect of back attraction.

You may wish to wave shape the gate signal so that it turns off earlier, but the trailing edge is a bit sloped. A word of caution here is that while that will help reduce the HV spikes, it will increase the heat in the transistor because it tends to operate as a resistor for a longer period. It is for that reason that most MOSFETS (if you are using a MOSFET) are switched as fast as possible.

If you are willing to share a schematic, it may show up some areas that can be improved on.

Cheers,

Harvey