Electric Motor Secrets

[vzon17]

Fun Fun

lol i had some fun by dumping the bEMF from my second motor into to large caps and i was able to run my first (smaller) motor on the kickback energy alone and further collected the BEMF from the (smaller) motor into 2 other caps.
but that gave some interesting ideas for my 2 pole motor. i am now building the circut so each pole is totally isolated from each other. each pole starts with its own 24v battery pack, has its own transistor circuit, and now i am working on using a duel optoisolator so i can use 1 reed switch to control both circuits. then
maybe i can dump the BEMF of 1 pole onto the primary side of the other pole!

Yeah let me know what you find out there, that idea has been going aronud ni my mind a lot. dump one coil to power the other coil, and if you can figure out haw to make it go back and forth then you only need to add enough energy to cover the losses. an idea I had was to back teh coil with bifilar windings but have one wire of the two go longer and keep winding it so you have two wires like a bifilar winding but one is much longer and adds more turns to the coil. then collect the collapse of the longer wire which wolud have more voltage and then dump that into the other coil for power, so it becomes somewhat like a tranformer combined with a motor. the collapse have higher voltage than the drive pulse that way. Only thing I have a problem with is the timing. the collapse may happen so fast that it wolud not be at the right time to hit the other coil so maybe store it in a capacitor then then dump it when needed. Just some thoughts anyway.

[grizli]

hi there!!
nice to see new people here!
perhaps i can help.......
the significant difference between our motor and a transformer is that the "extra energy" is "mechanical" and needs to be measured accordingly I.E. a dyno test then "compared" with the "reduced input"(input-recycled BEMF) we pay for electrically. a regular coil on a core transformer has no moving parts to take advantage of this "mechanical" benefit... i went through this line of thought myself awhile ago. hehehe

hope this helps!!
Eric

So is it posible with this motor that back emf (diode output) CHARGES battery FASTER than another battery is drained ??? And so switching batteries when one discharged will make continuous run without charging

[theremart]

RE: faster than drained.

So is it posible with this motor that back emf (diode output) CHARGES battery FASTER than another battery is drained ??? And so switching batteries when one discharged will make continuous run without charging

Hi grizli..

1. You have the energy comming out to charge battery #2 charing battery. This is not the place to look to get 100% back. You typically get only like %70 recovered energy here.

2. Hook a generator to the motor, and yes, I am told that there have been machines that make up the other 30% consumed by the batery so you exceed the amount of energy. I have not seen this, but I am led to believe the possibility is real with the testing I have done. The generator combined with the recovered energy going to second battery is why everyone is attempting to replicate this.

Much of this has been covered earlier in the thread, and building your own unit helps to understand the whole concept.

I know my converted motor has shown me a good part of what is involved. Now to refine it, you would need a machine shop to see what Jetijs is doing.

[Jetijs]

Just a quick update.
I finished the housing for my speed reducer so that the input shaft is
exactly at the same height as the motor axis. I attached the speed
reducer to the motor and did a test run. The reducer gear ratio is 15x,
that means it reduces the speed 15 times and increases the output torque
at the same ratio. The input speed is rated 1750RPM, I was putting in
about 2500RPM. I will have to change the speed reducer oil. The speed
reducer output was about 170RPM. If my permanent magnet alternator puts
out 12v already at 150RPM, then 170 RPM should produce about 13-14V.
Will see soon how much load the generator can hold. Here is a video:
YouTube - Lindemann attraction motor V2.0 video 7

[Eric]

Just a quick update.
I finished the housing for my speed reducer so that the input shaft is
exactly at the same height as the motor axis. I attached the speed
reducer to the motor and did a test run. The reducer gear ratio is 15x,
that means it reduces the speed 15 times and increases the output torque
at the same ratio. The input speed is rated 1750RPM, I was putting in
about 2500RPM. I will have to change the speed reducer oil. The speed
reducer output was about 170RPM. If my permanent magnet alternator puts
out 12v already at 150RPM, then 170 RPM should produce about 13-14V.
Will see soon how much load the generator can hold. Here is a video:
YouTube - Lindemann attraction motor V2.0 video 7

thats really neat! can you tell me the model number of the permanent magnet alternator your going to use so i can research it for my next motor?

Eric

[Jetijs]

It is this one:
Permanent Magnet Alternator Wind Blue Low Wind

[lighty]

@Jetijs

Could you please advise on the number of turns per pole and how many layers per pole of your motor?

[Jetijs]

lighty,
there are two wires wound parallel on each pole. The turn count is 25 for each wire. The winding process was so hard that I did not bother to wind the coils with all the layers with the same winding count. You can see this in the following picture:


I just started at the point nearest to the stator and wound till the end of the pole, then reversed the direction and wound backwards. There are more turns on the stator end of the pole. The first layer was 7-8 turns (if I recall correctly) and each next layer had fewer and fewer turns.

[lighty]

Thx for the info!

[Eric]

lighty,
there are two wires wound parallel on each pole. The turn count is 25 for each wire. The winding process was so hard that I did not bother to wind the coils with all the layers with the same winding count. You can see this in the following picture:


I just started at the point nearest to the stator and wound till the end of the pole, then reversed the direction and wound backwards. There are more turns on the stator end of the pole. The first layer was 7-8 turns (if I recall correctly) and each next layer had fewer and fewer turns.

cool!
so let me see if i understand you, you wound each of the 4 poles with 2 strands (bifilar), and are running each strand in parallel, and 2 opposite poles in parallel with N/S fields and then running the other 2 parallel poles in series with the first 2 poles? did i get that right? oh and all strands have there own transistor circuit right?

[Jetijs]

Hi Eric,
This is the coil configuration I am using:
http://www.emuprim.lv/bildez/images/..._1/shema_7.GIF
The red windings are for phase one and the blue ones for phase two. The green ones are the recovery windings. Both red windings are connected so that one makes an S pole and other an N pole. The same goes for phase 2 windings. In my current circuit I am not using transistors but MOSFETs and also there is no recovery battery, instead all the inductive spikes go to a capacitor in the input section. You can find the exact circuit if you browse a few pages back in this same thread.
Thanks,
Jetijs

[aladinlamp]

Solenoid engine

Hi

what might be the best solution in solenoid engine design for piece of iron which is attracted to the center of the coil.
How to achieve minimum air gap between iron and coil and minimise friction between them?

Thanx

[kokerich]

My first attraction motor.

Hi there!

Had a little time this weekend and decided to play around with the electromotor model that I found in one highschool cellar.

I converted it to an attraction motor removing the coils from the rotor, and adding a photosensor from an old computer mouse. I didn't want to wound any coils the stator had two already, I just used those.

I just wanted to see how the motor works. It started working at first start with no trouble. Here is what I founded by playing with it a little.
It works better when the elecltromagnets in oposing poles like on the picture.
I did't have a tachometer but it's clear that the rpm is higher and the tourque is larger. With the windings in paraler the current is bigger so it works faster. It drew a 100mA with the diode disconected, when shorted it draws a lot more, and when I added a resistor of about 18ohms it drew about 140mA and worked much quieter.
Also in every configuration there is a very little back emf.

The trouble is when I connected the secondary battery for charging. I connected one old car battery, it had a 10V so it wasn't completly dead, and the motor stalled. It seems it was too much load for it.
I was wondering if it is possible to charge a capacitor and then to quick discharge it every 2 seconds or so on the secondary battery like on the bedini's systems? Will it form a negative resistor?

Anyways I'm glad that the motor works, so I'm going to build a new one that should work better!

[Peter Lindemann]

Output Diode Reversed

Hi there!

Had a little time this weekend and decided to play around with the electromotor model that I found in one highschool cellar.

I converted it to an attraction motor removing the coils from the rotor, and adding a photosensor from an old computer mouse. I didn't want to wound any coils the stator had two already, I just used those.

I just wanted to see how the motor works. It started working at first start with no trouble. Here is what I founded by playing with it a little.
It works better when the elecltromagnets in oposing poles like on the picture.
I did't have a tachometer but it's clear that the rpm is higher and the tourque is larger. With the windings in paraler the current is bigger so it works faster. It drew a 100mA with the diode disconected, when shorted it draws a lot more, and when I added a resistor of about 18ohms it drew about 140mA and worked much quieter.
Also in every configuration there is a very little back emf.

The trouble is when I connected the secondary battery for charging. I connected one old car battery, it had a 10V so it wasn't completly dead, and the motor stalled. It seems it was too much load for it.
I was wondering if it is possible to charge a capacitor and then to quick discharge it every 2 seconds or so on the secondary battery like on the bedini's systems? Will it form a negative resistor?

Anyways I'm glad that the motor works, so I'm going to build a new one that should work better!

Dear Kokerich,

Nice set up. Thanks for verifying everything again, for those new to the forum. The question is, why did your motor stall when you connected the battery to the output coil? If your schematic diagram is correct, there may be a few things going on here. The nomenclature of your schematic shows the two coils connected in parallel, but also shows dots at opposite ends of the coils. These dots usually denote "same sense" to a set of transformer windings, but you have them wired together against this. So, first of all, I am not sure what this means.

Normally, in the circuits used in this forum, parallel windings like this are NOT used because they tend to allow the collapsing fields to discharge INTO EACH OTHER rather than into the output recovery circuit. This can cause the magnetic fields to collapse much more slowly so that they are not completely gone by the time the iron is due to leave the stator. This is what might be "stalling" your motor. Connected properly, your output battery CAN NOT slow the motor down. If you run each winding with its own transistor and then collect the collapsing field from each coil with its own diode, the motor should run just fine while charging your battery.

Keep up the great work.

Peter

[kokerich]

Oh my coil! ;-)

Thanx for the reply, Peter almighty. I thought on using the two transistor's for each coil and I'll do that in my next experiment for sure. I just wanted to try all this in very little time I had.
The dots on the coils, I used them to indicate that the poles are oposite on the electromagnets because it works better like that. I also tried to put these in series and it worked also ok and it draw about 45mA but the RPM is lower in that case and the torque as well. And it was also stalled by connecting the battery.
Whatever the case is, parallel or series configuration, the motor definitly works better when I have one N pole and one S pole towards the iron like on the picture.
The most important thing for me is that the motor works, and I am always seeing the SPIKES on the scope!
Also I need to make some of the FE machines so that I can persuade my father to begin research with me, he is great physics professor but he's been a bit sceptical about all that, but I think he is on his way!
I'll post the news as my experiments continue in a few days I hope.

Thanx again and forgive me for my bad English. Respect!