Electric Motor Secrets

[Eric]

oh this IS fun to watch you work on this particular motor because i bought one as well when i first saw it pop up on this disscusion group, but i shelved mine for now because that one will be my version4 motor and currently i am still working on my version3 motor (a 2 pole bifilar modified pressure washer motor). my intention is to master the control circuit on my ver3 motor and then apply that circuit 4 times to the 8 pole motor version4 motor

ok back to your work.

@Eric I installed a neon bulb from the emitter to the collector to protect my transistor (Thanks ! ). My transistor runs well and does not go out easy anymore.

great! but it is still better not to do that, a better test is to dump the spike into diferent types of loads (batt, cap, filament lightbulb......) and watch how the motor behaves

Once I get the 16 gauge copper wire, i will have to glue my magnets, since that will increase my RPM. Plus, I want to play it safe so I have to do it any way. I did buy a photo trigger component, maybe, that will be better once i get the hang on this motor.

anouther idea you could do that is simpler and less electronic is to control the transistor with a mechanical switch. you could drill some holes into the back of the spinning disk mounted on the back of the motor and screw a post that sticks out an inch or so and let that act as a cam to trigger a mechanical switch just like ben teal did. you just need to find a good push button switch that does not stay on when you first depress it! in fact, if the switch is a good say 15 to 30 amp switch you wouldnt even need the transistor. you could still keep the ne2 neo bulb accross the switch terminals to protect against arcing if you disconnect the kick back. other than that i am not sure if you would still need a spark snubber circuit for the switch or not maybe some one else here can answer that.

I put 2 analog DC Ampere, the first 3 AMP and the second 1 AMP.

i am not familiar with the inner workings of an AC amp meter VS a DC amp meter. but in your video the one you are using to measure with is clearly an ac meter so i dont know if that is a very good reading or not. i would go ahead and just use the dc one you have there. i wouldnt bother to try and read amps on the kick back because that spike is comming back so fast and short that, while the analog is better than digital, it still will be to slow to respond and give you an accurate reading it will only be a lagged average.

The spike problem will have to be solved once I have the basics done

i disagree, this is part of the basics and its one of the easiest to fix, first
run a test with your power supply set at 24v and measure rpms and amps
then remove the power supply and, i saw you allready have 2 batteries in one of your videos, just grab a third for the kick back and wire 2 of your wet cell batteries in series for 24v and make sure the motor runs the same. if it runs faster and the amp meter might go up. then your power supply is not supplying enough amperage and is current limmiting your motor. in the future you can always use the power supply to trickle charge your batts while you run the motor.

Now get this, When Dr. Lindemann placed his hand on the rotor that did not increase the AMP, however, my motor increase the AMP according to the pressure i apply. What should I do?

i would say now you are getting a bit beyond the basics. personally i found a solution that fixes this problem involving anouther reed switch but thats a tiny bit more advanced. i would recomend more thoroughly investigating the basic circuit posted at the end of lindemans dvd. in fact i would watch it again if you are asking this question (i cant count how many times i watched that dvd over the last couple of years!!) lets see if i can pose a question to get your mind going. after you watch the dvd again ask your self how many diferent duty cycles are you dealing with in the simple circuit? is there more than one? let me know what you think and hopefully i can help by sharing my answer.

hope that helps!!
Eric

[Eric]

oh yea i learned, when useing an optical rpm reader, it is best to use a black matt (not shiny) painted background with a reflective dot sticker. this will give a more reliable reading. just paint the round spinning disk black and (if you dont have reflective dots with your rpm gun) go to a local hardware store and find the section that sells address number stickers for your mail box these usually have a reflective back ground behind the black letter, better yet, they might even have a blank reflective square used to denote a space in a number sequence. just cut one of those ones up into smaller pieces.

Eric

[uusedman]

wow. i will resume tomorrow morning. is my circuit good enough of where i am at now? maybe i should focus more on the hardware, then move to the circuity.

thanks, this info is great, need more.

i will answer the dvd part tomorrow, after watching

@mark, thanks i did not know that

[Eric]

lol just to be clear the answer is not nessesarily spoken in the dvd so dont spend hours searching for the literal answer to "my" question. the purpose of having you watch it again is to get you to think more about the proccess, take notes where needed, write out your own questions. the question of duty cycles was one that popped into my head after i watched the dvd again, and me sharing my own question with you is a response to you asking the question "why is the amperage increasing when I load the motor with my hand?" so also keep your own question in your mind when reviewing dvd

cheers!!
Eric

[Eric]

wow. i will resume tomorrow morning. is my circuit good enough of where i am at now? maybe i should focus more on the hardware, then move to the circuity.

oh and i would say its up to you which path you want to take electronic or mechanical. jetis is doing a wonderful job of following the electronic route.
i have a mill and a lathe and, as i have discovered, a bigger interest in the mechanical direction.

i would suggest you start with the circuit at the end of the dvd. take notes after each test you perform, and then ask questions that will lead you to test more ideas.

Eric

[peper10]

Hi everybody!!!!

I highly suggest you to see the ENERGY TECHNOLOGY NOW chanel on
Youtube...
gotoluc already see some vids but nobody mention the vids on here...
There some new way to harness the emf and used it..
If Aaron wants me to start a new tread it`s fine with me,i just don`t want
to stast a tread for nothing...
THERE SO MUCH TREAD STARTED RITH NOW,that sometimes a tread is redirect and talking the same thing as the previous!!!!!!!!
Anyway i hope you enjoy the viewing of this guy and maybe lighting new
idea.....
They already start a tread on OVERUNITY.COM....
Thanks!!

Alain

[uusedman]

@eric

I am going to get the AC AMP fixed I don't know how it went over my head.

About painting the spining disc black, should i just paint over the magnets black and leave one shinny. Mark had mentioned that.

I will buy another wet cell 12V battery to play with today to fix the limiting ampere. Well post the results as soon as I get that info. Also, the loads whether it is bulb cap or battery, that info will be posted.

As far as the mechanical switch goes, I will try to make some adjustments, but, for the time being the reed switch is doing a good job. You are correct, if my RPM starts to get in the 2000+, the magnets will fly if not glued, so that will have to be fixed as soon as I figure out a way.

How many turns should the inductor be for each pole (16 gauge)? Should I use 18 or 16?

And yes, I think it is time I take Jetis and your plans to do a bi-filar inductor.

I had lost my DVD for electric motor secrets, so I order it and bunch other DVD. It is a way to learn and support Dr. Lindemann.

As far as the AMP increase upon load the shaft, I think when the motor is in the rest position, that is when the motor is slowing the rpm which is telling the power source to give more out. In conclusion, 2 fire position should be intact, when 4 poles are pulsing the other 4 are resting, and as soon as the pulse is over from the first set of poles the resting poles pulse.

[uusedman]

just a quick note.

the inductor that originally came with the motor was not bare like I thought, it has resin, and I did put it on the motor and is working.

For those who bought this motor, you can use the stators that are already on the motor, you just have to attach them correctly.

[Eric]

About painting the spining disc black, should i just paint over the magnets black and leave one shinny. Mark had mentioned that.

um, no to be more specific you have the magnets attached to the "side" of the spinning disk, but if you look directly down on the disk from the top (top down view) you have a nice flat smooth spinning circle,disk,plate
however you choose to think about it. paint that black then put one reflective dot on that flat disk. even if you paint the magnets, because the rest of the aluminum motor housing provides a light colored back drop, your optical gun might still pick up 4 pulses per rev or worse it might pick some up some of the time. the best approuch is a continuous black background with 1 very reflective spinning dot

I will buy another wet cell 12V battery to play with today to fix the limiting ampere. Well post the results as soon as I get that info. Also, the loads whether it is bulb cap or battery, that info will be posted.

keep in mind that you can dump the kick back into anouther seperate coil
as well.

As far as the mechanical switch goes, I will try to make some adjustments, but, for the time being the reed switch is doing a good job. You are correct, if my RPM starts to get in the 2000+, the magnets will fly if not glued, so that will have to be fixed as soon as I figure out a way.

if you are going to use the reed i would buy some much smaller dot magnets from radioshack or simmilar store. you dont need those big guys glued on the disk.

How many turns should the inductor be for each pole (16 gauge)? Should I use 18 or 16?

well the larger the gauge the less voltage you need just keep in mind that semiconductor componets have a voltage drop so if you run this at 12v or less the voltage drop subtracts a larger percentage of your efficancy so there are also benifits to a higher supply and a smaller gauge. personally i crammed as meny turns as i could fit on to my version 3 motor without having the rotor interfere with the coils. but if you want to use some math to calculate amper turns then counting the turns would be benificial.

And yes, I think it is time I take Jetis and your plans to do a bi-filar inductor.

hehehe i dont. i would play with the existing coils first since you know they are insulated
try and use them first and do more than 2 poles. also i like to remind my self when i work on a motor with more than one pole that, control wise, each pole can be viewed as a seperate motor circuit and , if you use a cap to collect the kickback from one pole you can used anouther simple reedswitch control circuit to dump that into anouther pole of the motor. so there is a lot you can learn first before doing the bifilar. i didnt even consider a bifilar untill my 3rd motor. it was my 2nd motor, a modified 2 pole weed wacker motor that has 2 poles with 1 strand of wire each pole, that gave my an idea for how to control a bifilar in my 3rd motor. and its a very diferent idea from jetis's so like i said it helps to be patient and learn from your tests. who knows maybe you will discover a better way than eather one of us. so try to learn and figure out first why and how "you" want to use a bifilar rather than just copying our attempts.

As far as the AMP increase upon load the shaft, I think when the motor is in the rest position, that is when the motor is slowing the rpm which is telling the power source to give more out. In conclusion, 2 fire position should be intact, when 4 poles are pulsing the other 4 are resting, and as soon as the pulse is over from the first set of poles the resting poles pulse.

even if you dont have the dvd right now its good to see you thinking about the process! although i dont understand what you mean by "rest position" are you refering to stevens diagram? the relax position is just a clarifcation that the colapsing field might not be finnished yet depending on what sort of material is used in the core of the motor. if you are just using 1 pulse per rotor pass than consider that you have 2 pulses per revolution you are running at what 1500 rpm which is 25 rev per second which would give you 50 pulses per sec or 50hertz
thats really low so i dont think you have to worry about the extra relax time i would focus on understanding the first two parts the "on pulse" or energy required/consumed to build the field and the off time required to collapse the field and capture/recycle energy back into the system. these 2 are very important parts to understand and think about. how much ontime do you need? how much will you get back in the collapse? jetis confirmed that when he loaded his motor his amps increased also but he got more recovery, but remember! in jetis's circuit he is chopping his ontime up many times per pass of the rotor. you arnt yet, so you first need to ask your self why if jetis doing that? if you slow your shaft down on your motor what does that do to your ontime? what does that do to your offtime?

hope that helps!
Eric

oh and one other thing i forgot about is you tranny staying at room temp? or is it getting warm? if its getting warm your tranny might not be opening all the way and then it can also function as a resistor which is why it might be getting warm. are you still useing 470ohm resistors for your transistor bridge?
i would get a range of pairs from 1/2watt to 2watt from 100ohms up to the 470ohm you have. and try lowering the resistance, you want the tranny to open all the way fast and clean. but pay attention to how hot the resistor bridge gets that will tell you if your resistance is too low.

[Eric]

oh if you want to see a scope shot of my first motor to get an idea of what the on time and off time look like go here Eric's page, Photos these are shots taken accross the emmitter to collector

[uusedman]

even if you dont have the dvd right now its good to see you thinking about the process! although i dont understand what you mean by "rest position" are you refering to stevens diagram? the relax position is just a clarifcation that the colapsing field might not be finnished yet depending on what sort of material is used in the core of the motor. if you are just using 1 pulse per rotor pass than consider that you have 2 pulses per revolution you are running at what 1500 rpm which is 25 rev per second which would give you 50 pulses per sec or 50hertz
thats really low so i dont think you have to worry about the extra relax time i would focus on understanding the first two parts the "on pulse" or energy required/consumed to build the field and the off time required to collapse the field and capture/recycle energy back into the system. these 2 are very important parts to understand and think about. how much ontime do you need? how much will you get back in the collapse? jetis confirmed that when he loaded his motor his amps increased also but he got more recovery, but remember! in jetis's circuit he is chopping his ontime up many times per pass of the rotor. you arnt yet, so you first need to ask your self why if jetis doing that? if you slow your shaft down on your motor what does that do to your ontime? what does that do to your offtime?

hope that helps!
Eric

oh and one other thing i forgot about is you tranny staying at room temp? or is it getting warm? if its getting warm your tranny might not be opening all the way and then it can also function as a resistor which is why it might be getting warm. are you still useing 470ohm resistors for your transistor bridge?
i would get a range of pairs from 1/2watt to 2watt from 100ohms up to the 470ohm you have. and try lowering the resistance, you want the tranny to open all the way fast and clean. but pay attention to how hot the resistor bridge gets that will tell you if your resistance is too low.

I had a similar scenario working on my Newman Motor, however, did not continue to establish a circuit with numerous pulsing when the circuit is closed. The following is what I believe should be done:

In order to established a electromagnetic field in our motor, the on time pulse, I think would be significantly short. Maybe 1/1000 seconds if not more. Therefore, in that time of pulse, we should open and close the circuit as many possible times to get the inductive collapse. The more pressure I put on the shaft, the more pulses I put through and the more inductive collapse I am retrieving. If the shaft slows down, on my motor currently, I am getting a longer pulse than if it is at a higher speed. Plus, only one duty cycle of recycled BEMF.

I believe the energy coming out of the inductive collapse is greater than the pulse that originated it, true or false?

What I meant in rest position is that, when one set of coils are pulsing the other set of coil are in idle awaiting its turn. I did a video to show 2 coils pulsing systematically one after the other.

i will check on that tranny.

I will try to get some pics on the scope of my emitter to collector, once i have some stuff down and understood

[uusedman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hjwtqtXlQs

newest improvements.

[LowTechIsCool]

regenerative break

Hi all,

What would happen if you wanted to use the motor as a break?

as in, you use the motor in a car and you want to stop, so you run a series of charging pulses and recovery pulses? Since the load wont be stopped instantly, the rotor will unalign and the inductance of the stator will decrease, you might get some impressive recovery.

Just brainstorming at this point: Image you are operating the motor normally, not as a break, but instead of having absolutely no current at the point of rotor-stator alignment, you have the stator still containing full current and you switch to recover mode at the point of alignment. I am sure this wont help with torque ripple, and you would need some super fun programming on a microcontroller with a position encoder, but could the large recovery impulse make up for the loss of torque?

-Chris Corkum

[Mark]

Looking good Uusedman, nice video.
Now with only 2 magnets just use your RPM guage and divide by 2.
You said your cap was in line with your run battery, so are your run batteries 2 volt or 12 volt? If its only 2 volts your total draw and that circuit is next to nothing only .2 watts!

[uusedman]

Looking good Uusedman, nice video.
Now with only 2 magnets just use your RPM guage and divide by 2.
You said your cap was in line with your run battery, so are your run batteries 2 volt or 12 volt? If its only 2 volts your total draw and that circuit is next to nothing only .2 watts!

I have 2 circuit, each run battery is 12 V. that is about 1.2 watts which is still cool. The question is, how efficient is the motor?