Earth Battery SG

[Lidmotor]

Success with stainless steel pot scrubber

@Dragon
I had success with a stainlees steel pot scrubber and aluminum. I tried it with a magnesium firestarter stick and, like you said, the Mg got eaten very fast. The power was good though and I could even run my little "Bobin Bedini" SSG off it nicely. The stainless steel scrubber/aluminum worked best in a saltwater electrolyte that I tried. An aluminum soda can or just some aluminum foil worked. Next time that I'm down at the boat I will get some sea water and try that. A chunk of zinc and stainless produce good results also. I don't know what alloy stainless steel that they use in those cheap (3 for $1) scrubbers but it works great. I'm thinking that a nice chunk of aluminum (or zinc) and one of these SS scrubbers burried close to each other in the ground might make a very long lasting battery. A couple of flatened Al soda cans might even work.
The "earth battery" that I showed in my last video is going strong and is still driving the little pulse motor. After I made that video I unrolled that speaker wire so I could run the wire along the wall and out of sight. That didn't seem to make any difference.

Lidmotor

[dragon]

@Dragon
I had success with a stainlees steel pot scrubber and aluminum. I tried it with a magnesium firestarter stick and, like you said, the Mg got eaten very fast. The power was good though and I could even run my little "Bobin Bedini" SSG off it nicely. The stainless steel scrubber/aluminum worked best in a saltwater electrolyte that I tried. An aluminum soda can or just some aluminum foil worked. Next time that I'm down at the boat I will get some sea water and try that. A chunk of zinc and stainless produce good results also. I don't know what alloy stainless steel that they use in those cheap (3 for $1) scrubbers but it works great. I'm thinking that a nice chunk of aluminum (or zinc) and one of these SS scrubbers burried close to each other in the ground might make a very long lasting battery. A couple of flatened Al soda cans might even work.
The "earth battery" that I showed in my last video is going strong and is still driving the little pulse motor. After I made that video I unrolled that speaker wire so I could run the wire along the wall and out of sight. That didn't seem to make any difference.

Lidmotor

I still have a bunch of things I need to try including some of the above... Seems like you'd have an endless power supply by building some multicell units in a container to toss over the side of your boat. Finding the right materials for longevity and power I suppose is the biggest challenge. Lasersaber's graphite and magnesium really works well, the smaller ones would make an amp or slightly over which was impressive ( at least to me ). Using a graphite rod of 4 inches tall and 1 inch in diameter would get me an amp output at 1.4 volts. Unfortunately the graphite is extreemly expensive which started me on the path to alternatives.... So far the steel and magnesium are the second place winners in power and first in "cheap" to build.
________
Injury Cover Dicussion

[jeanna]

try copper?

Hi dragon,
What kind of amps do you really need?
I agree, that 1 " graphite is expensive. the 2" which lasersaber used was even more... $50 for 2 feet.
I went to copper pipe with a piece of cloth embedded with MgSulphate=epsom salt solution and wrapped with Mg ribbon.
The 7 inch long 1" diam copper pipe cost $3.50 and can take 100 inches of mag ribbon and produces 45mA, 1.35v under load.
(This was around 200mA when just finished and sitting in a glass of epsom salts sol.)

If you NEED 1 full amp then perhaps the carbon is not so bad, but 45mA is a fair amount for many things and since they can be put in series, unlike earth batteries...

I am saying all this to recommend a trial of the 1" copper pipe.
I later wrapped it in masking tape all but a vertical strip for adding water. I also let some of the cloth extend down the bottom for extra wetting. And that is how it produces 45mA

It lasts pretty well for me.
I mean it was nothing like what you reported on the SS.

Have you tried 1" copper?
The 2" copper is nearly as expensive as carbon, and I would probably go ahead and use the carbon for something that needs 1 amp.

The length of Mg ribbon makes a very big difference too, and if you were to make one from 2 feet of 1" cu pipe, you might get close to 300 inches on that. And that would surely put out a lot
3 hardware stores are now out of copper pipe thanks to this project, (small town) and I need to get to home depot for some copper. Hopefully the 2" pipe doesn't cost $20/ft there.

jeanna

[dragon]

Hi dragon,
What kind of amps do you really need?
I agree, that 1 " graphite is expensive. the 2" which lasersaber used was even more... $50 for 2 feet.
I went to copper pipe with a piece of cloth embedded with MgSulphate=epsom salt solution and wrapped with Mg ribbon.
The 7 inch long 1" diam copper pipe cost $3.50 and can take 100 inches of mag ribbon and produces 45mA, 1.35v under load.
(This was around 200mA when just finished and sitting in a glass of epsom salts sol.)

If you NEED 1 full amp then perhaps the carbon is not so bad, but 45mA is a fair amount for many things and since they can be put in series, unlike earth batteries...

I am saying all this to recommend a trial of the 1" copper pipe.
I later wrapped it in masking tape all but a vertical strip for adding water. I also let some of the cloth extend down the bottom for extra wetting. And that is how it produces 45mA

It lasts pretty well for me.
I mean it was nothing like what you reported on the SS.

Have you tried 1" copper?
The 2" copper is nearly as expensive as carbon, and I would probably go ahead and use the carbon for something that needs 1 amp.

The length of Mg ribbon makes a very big difference too, and if you were to make one from 2 feet of 1" cu pipe, you might get close to 300 inches on that. And that would surely put out a lot
3 hardware stores are now out of copper pipe thanks to this project, (small town) and I need to get to home depot for some copper. Hopefully the 2" pipe doesn't cost $20/ft there.

jeanna

Hi Jeanna, I haven't tried copper as yet but it's on my list. I'd really like to see an amp continuous or close to it. A bit challenging and may be a bit optimistic but I believe it can be done. Copper is one of the elements that is in the high price range as well but you can still buy copper roof flashing for a somewhat reasonable price, usually in an 8, 10 or 12" width and 10,20 and 50ft rolls. It's fairly thin and easy to work with. Easily rolled into any size you might need. It's great for other projects as well and easy to solder.

I plan to try some molly type steel as well as some other grades tomorrow which is still reasonably priced. I'm pretty impressed with the output of the steel, the tiny ones I've made will do 20-40ma at 1.2 volts in salt solution and still run a JT in air ( until it dries of course ).

Thanks for the tips, I'll dig out some copper tomorrow and give it a try. I'll do a comparison between that and various steels...
________
CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT

[FrozenWaterLab]

[QUOTE=Lidmotor;106819]@FrozenWaterLab
Thank for the great metal charts. There have been some heated discussions about WHAT is really happening with "earth batteries"----real ones--ones burried in the ground. My feeling is that if we can get cost effective energy this way without messing up the environment, then it doesn't matter (to the average person) HOW it works. If it doesn't work out to be a good idea at least we have had some fun building and learned a thing or two.
That said---I am in the "galvanic" group right now until I successfully build a "tullric current" type.
Here is a video that I did yesterday where I am running a Joule Thief circuit off the battery in the ground and also off a table top version of that battery.

YouTube - ‪Pot Scrubber Battery---Table Model.ASF‬‎

@ Lidmotor

Your right about the masses not caring. We have a consumer base, predicated by our abundance of availability.
I often think about NS creating his system because nothing else was available.

The spinoffs of research is amazing, isn't it. Basics, but where it leads??

Dragons work in the small self produced batt is great.
I hope he puts a chart together when he's done, so the info is available in the future. Shades of McGiver.
I hope to do the same with my basic EB info.

Rain Rain go away haha How come its sunny when I'm working.

I have got the components for my JT just need to sit down and start.
Also I have on order a 10meg handheld O-scope. I'm letting it come on a stock order to keep the cost to a min. Basic scope about $200 Extras such as hard case. probes, Portable power etc. $50 - Got the works $252
I have old large ones (35meg and a 50meg I think) but don't relish hauling them out the door.
Here's a chem chart W/Potential in case you havn't seen it from Wiki
Go to Wiki for clickable links to most of the elements

▪ Standard electrode potential (data page)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Main article: standard electrode potential
The values of standard electrode potentials are given in the table below in volts relative to the standard hydrogen electrode and are assembled from references [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]
The values are for the following conditions:
▪ the temperature of 298.15 K (25 °C);
▪ the effective concentration of 1*mol/L for each aqueous species or a species in a mercury amalgam;
▪ the partial pressure of 101.325 kPa (absolute) (1 atm, 1.01325 bar) for each gaseous reagent. This pressure is used because most literature data are still given for this value rather than for the current standard of 100 kPa.
▪ the activity of unity for each pure solid, pure liquid, or for water (solvent).
Legend: (s) – solid; (l) – liquid; (g) – gas; (aq) – aqueous (default for all charged species); (Hg) – amalgam.
Half-reaction
E° (V)[note 1]
Ref.
 N2(g) +  H+ +  e− HN3(aq)
*−3.09
[4]
Li+ +  e− Li(s)
*−3.0401
[2]
N2(g) + 4 H2O + 2 e− 2 NH2OH(aq) + 2 OH−
*−3.04
[4]
Cs+ +  e− Cs(s)
*−3.026
[2]
Rb+ +  e− Rb(s)
*−2.98
[2]
K+ +  e− K(s)
*−2.931
[2]
Ba2+ + 2 e− Ba(s)
*−2.912
[2]
La(OH)3(s) + 3 e− La(s) + 3 OH−
*−2.90
[2]
Sr2+ + 2 e− Sr(s)
*−2.899
[2]
Ca2+ + 2 e− Ca(s)
*−2.868
[2]
Eu2+ + 2 e− Eu(s)
*−2.812
[2]
Ra2+ + 2 e− Ra(s)
*−2.8
[2]
Na+ +  e− Na(s)
*−2.71
[7][2]
La3+ + 3 e− La(s)
*−2.379
[2]
Y3+ + 3 e− Y(s)
*−2.372
[2]
Mg2+ + 2 e− Mg(s)
*−2.372
[2]
ZrO(OH)2(s) +  H2O + 4 e− Zr(s) + 4 OH−
*−2.36
[2]
Al(OH)4− + 3 e− Al(s) + 4 OH−
*−2.33
Al(OH)3(s) + 3 e− Al(s) + 3 OH−
*−2.31
H2(g) + 2 e− 2 H−
*−2.25
Ac3+ + 3 e− Ac(s)
*−2.20
Be2+ + 2 e− Be(s)
*−1.85
U3+ + 3 e− U(s)
*−1.66
[5]
Al3+ + 3 e− Al(s)
*−1.66
[7]
Ti2+ + 2 e− Ti(s)
*−1.63
[7]
ZrO2(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− Zr(s) + 2 H2O
*−1.553
[2]
Zr4+ + 4 e− Zr(s)
*−1.45
[2]
TiO(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− Ti(s) +  H2O
*−1.31
Ti2O3(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− 2 TiO(s) +  H2O
*−1.23
Ti3+ + 3 e− Ti(s)
*−1.21
Zn(OH)42− + 2 e− Zn(s) + 4 OH−
*−1.199
[2]
Mn2+ + 2 e− Mn(s)
*−1.185
[2]
Te(s) + 2 e− Te2−
*−1.143
[1]
V2+ + 2 e− V(s)
*−1.13
[1]
Nb3+ + 3 e− Nb(s)
*−1.099
Sn(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− SnH4(g)
*−1.07
SiO2(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− Si(s) + 2 H2O
*−0.91
B(OH)3(aq) + 3 H+ + 3 e− B(s) + 3 H2O
*−0.89
TiO2+ + 2 H+ + 4 e− Ti(s) +  H2O
*−0.86
2  H2O + 2 e− H2(g) + 2 OH−
*−0.8277
[2]
Bi(s) + 3 H+ + 3 e− BiH3
*−0.8
[2]
Zn2+ + 2 e− Zn(Hg)
*−0.7628
[2]
Zn2+ + 2 e− Zn(s)
*−0.7618
[2]
Ta2O5(s) + 10 H+ + 10 e− 2 Ta(s) + 5 H2O
*−0.75
Cr3+ + 3 e− Cr(s)
*−0.74
[Au(CN)2]− +  e− Au(s) + 2 CN−
*−0.60
Ta3+ + 3 e− Ta(s)
*−0.6
PbO(s) +  H2O + 2 e− Pb(s) + 2 OH−
*−0.58
2 TiO2(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− Ti2O3(s) +  H2O
*−0.56
Ga3+ + 3 e− Ga(s)
*−0.53
U4+ +  e− U3+
*−0.52
[5]
H3PO2(aq) +  H+ +  e− P(white[note 2]) + 2 H2O
*−0.508
[2]
H3PO3(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− H3PO2(aq) +  H2O
*−0.499
[2]
H3PO3(aq) + 3 H+ + 3 e− P(red)[note 2] + 3 H2O
*−0.454
[2]
Fe2+ + 2 e− Fe(s)
*−0.44
[7]
2 CO2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− HOOCCOOH(aq)
*−0.43
Cr3+ +  e− Cr2+
*−0.42
Cd2+ + 2 e− Cd(s)
*−0.40
[7]
GeO2(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− GeO(s) +  H2O
*−0.37
Cu2O(s) +  H2O + 2 e− 2 Cu(s) + 2 OH−
*−0.360
[2]
PbSO4(s) + 2 e− Pb(s) + SO42−
*−0.3588
[2]
PbSO4(s) + 2 e− Pb(Hg) + SO42−
*−0.3505
[2]
Eu3+ +  e− Eu2+
*−0.35
[5]
In3+ + 3 e− In(s)
*−0.34
[1]
Tl+ +  e− Tl(s)
*−0.34
[1]
Ge(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− GeH4(g)
*−0.29
Co2+ + 2 e− Co(s)
*−0.28
[2]
H3PO4(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− H3PO3(aq) +  H2O
*−0.276
[2]
V3+ +  e− V2+
*−0.26
[7]
Ni2+ + 2 e− Ni(s)
*−0.25
As(s) + 3 H+ + 3 e− AsH3(g)
*−0.23
[1]
AgI(s) +  e− Ag(s) + I−
*−0.15224
[2]
MoO2(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− Mo(s) + 2 H2O
*−0.15
Si(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− SiH4(g)
*−0.14
Sn2+ + 2 e− Sn(s)
*−0.13
O2(g) +  H+ +  e− HO2•(aq)
*−0.13
Pb2+ + 2 e− Pb(s)
*−0.13
[7]
WO2(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− W(s) + 2 H2O
*−0.12
P(red) + 3 H+ + 3 e− PH3(g)
*−0.111
[2]
CO2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− HCOOH(aq)
*−0.11
Se(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− H2Se(g)
*−0.11
CO2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− CO(g) +  H2O
*−0.11
SnO(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− Sn(s) +  H2O
*−0.10
SnO2(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− SnO(s) +  H2O
*−0.09
WO3(aq) + 6 H+ + 6 e− W(s) + 3 H2O
*−0.09
[1]
P(white) + 3 H+ + 3 e− PH3(g)
*−0.063
[2]
HCOOH(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− HCHO(aq) +  H2O
*−0.03
2 H+ + 2 e− H2(g)
* *0.0000
≡*0
AgBr(s) +  e− Ag(s) + Br−
*+0.07133
[2]
S4O62− + 2 e− 2 S2O32−
*+0.08
Fe3O4(s) + 8 H+ + 8 e− 3 Fe(s) + 4 H2O
*+0.085
[6]
N2(g) + 2 H2O + 6 H+ + 6 e− 2 NH4OH(aq)
*+0.092
HgO(s) +  H2O + 2 e− Hg(l) + 2 OH−
*+0.0977
Cu(NH3)42+ +  e− Cu(NH3)2+ + 2 NH3
*+0.10
[1]
Ru(NH3)63+ +  e− Ru(NH3)62+
*+0.10
[5]
N2H4(aq) + 4 H2O + 2 e− 2 NH4+ + 4 OH−
*+0.11
[4]
H2MoO4(aq) + 6 H+ + 6 e− Mo(s) + 4 H2O
*+0.11
Ge4+ + 4 e− Ge(s)
*+0.12
C(s) + 4 H+ + 4 e− CH4(g)
*+0.13
[1]
HCHO(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− CH3OH(aq)
*+0.13
S(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− H2S(g)
*+0.14
Sn4+ + 2 e− Sn2+
*+0.15
Cu2+ +  e− Cu+
*+0.159
[1]
HSO4− + 3 H+ + 2 e− SO2(aq) + 2 H2O
*+0.16
UO22+ +  e− UO2+
*+0.163
[5]
SO42− + 4 H+ + 2 e− SO2(aq) + 2 H2O
*+0.17
TiO2+ + 2 H+ +  e− Ti3+ +  H2O
*+0.19
SbO+ + 2 H+ + 3 e− Sb(s) +  H2O
*+0.20
AgCl(s) +  e− Ag(s) + Cl−
*+0.22233
[2]
H3AsO3(aq) + 3 H+ + 3 e− As(s) + 3 H2O
*+0.24
GeO(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− Ge(s) +  H2O
*+0.26
UO2+ + 4 H+ +  e− U4+ + 2 H2O
*+0.273
[5]
Re3+ + 3 e− Re(s)
*+0.300
Bi3+ + 3 e− Bi(s)
*+0.308
[2]
VO2+ + 2 H+ +  e− V3+ +  H2O
*+0.34
Cu2+ + 2 e− Cu(s)
*+0.340
[1]
[Fe(CN)6]3− +  e− [Fe(CN)6]4−
*+0.36
O2(g) + 2 H2O + 4 e− 4 OH−(aq)
*+0.40
[7]
H2MoO4 + 6 H+ + 3 e− Mo3+ + 2 H2O
*+0.43
CH3OH(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− CH4(g) +  H2O
*+0.50
SO2(aq) + 4 H+ + 4 e− S(s) + 2 H2O
*+0.50
Cu+ +  e− Cu(s)
*+0.520
[1]
CO(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− C(s) +  H2O
*+0.52
I3− + 2 e− 3 I−
*+0.53
[7]
I2(s) + 2 e− 2 I−
*+0.54
[7]
[AuI4]− + 3 e− Au(s) + 4 I−
*+0.56
H3AsO4(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− H3AsO3(aq) +  H2O
*+0.56
[AuI2]− +  e− Au(s) + 2 I−
*+0.58
MnO4− + 2 H2O + 3 e− MnO2(s) + 4 OH−
*+0.59
S2O32 − + 6 H+ + 4 e− 2 S(s) + 3 H2O
*+0.60
H2MoO4(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− MoO2(s) + 2 H2O
*+0.65
+ 2 H+ + 2 e−
*+0.6992
[2]
O2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e−  H2O2(aq)
*+0.70
Tl3+ + 3 e− Tl(s)
*+0.72
PtCl62− + 2 e− PtCl42− + 2 Cl−
*+0.726
[5]
H2SeO3(aq) + 4 H+ + 4 e− Se(s) + 3 H2O
*+0.74
PtCl42− + 2 e− Pt(s) + 4 Cl−
*+0.758
[5]
Fe3+ +  e− Fe2+
*+0.77
Ag+ +  e− Ag(s)
*+0.7996
[2]
Hg22+ + 2 e− 2 Hg(l)
*+0.80
NO3−(aq) + 2 H+ +  e− NO2(g) +  H2O
*+0.80
[AuBr4]− + 3 e− Au(s) + 4 Br−
*+0.85
Hg2+ + 2 e− Hg(l)
*+0.85
MnO4− +  H+ +  e− HMnO4−
*+0.90
2 Hg2+ + 2 e− Hg22+
*+0.91
[1]
Pd2+ + 2 e− Pd(s)
*+0.915
[5]
[AuCl4]− + 3 e− Au(s) + 4 Cl−
*+0.93
MnO2(s) + 4 H+ +  e− Mn3+ + 2 H2O
*+0.95
[AuBr2]− +  e− Au(s) + 2 Br−
*+0.96
Br2(l) + 2 e− 2 Br−
*+1.066
[2]
Br2(aq) + 2 e− 2 Br−
*+1.0873
[2]
IO3− + 5 H+ + 4 e− HIO(aq) + 2 H2O
*+1.13
[AuCl2]− +  e− Au(s) + 2 Cl−
*+1.15
HSeO4− + 3 H+ + 2 e− H2SeO3(aq) +  H2O
*+1.15
Ag2O(s) + 2 H+ + 2 e− 2 Ag(s) +  H2O
*+1.17
ClO3− + 2 H+ +  e− ClO2(g) +  H2O
*+1.18
Pt2+ + 2 e− Pt(s)
*+1.188
[5]
ClO2(g) +  H+ +  e− HClO2(aq)
*+1.19
2 IO3− + 12 H+ + 10 e− I2(s) + 6 H2O
*+1.20
ClO4− + 2 H+ + 2 e− ClO3− +  H2O
*+1.20
O2(g) + 4 H+ + 4 e− 2 H2O
*+1.23
[7]
MnO2(s) + 4 H+ + 2 e− Mn2+ + 2 H2O
*+1.23
Tl3+ + 2 e− Tl+
*+1.25
Cr2O72− + 14 H+ + 6 e− 2 Cr3+ + 7 H2O
*+1.33
Cl2(g) + 2 e− 2 Cl−
*+1.36
[7]
CoO2(s) + 4 H+ +  e− Co3+ + 2 H2O
*+1.42
2 NH3O H+ +  H+ + 2 e− N2H5+ + 2 H2O
*+1.42
[4]
2 HIO(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− I2(s) + 2 H2O
*+1.44
Ce4+ +  e− Ce3+
*+1.44
BrO3− + 5 H+ + 4 e− HBrO(aq) + 2 H2O
*+1.45
β-PbO2(s) + 4 H+ + 2 e− Pb2+ + 2 H2O
*+1.460
[1]
α-PbO2(s) + 4 H+ + 2 e− Pb2+ + 2 H2O
*+1.468
[1]
2 BrO3− + 12 H+ + 10 e− Br2(l) + 6 H2O
*+1.48
2ClO3− + 12 H+ + 10 e− Cl2(g) + 6 H2O
*+1.49
MnO4− + 8 H+ + 5 e− Mn2+ + 4 H2O
*+1.51
HO2• +  H+ +  e−  H2O2(aq)
*+1.51
Au3+ + 3 e− Au(s)
*+1.52
NiO2(s) + 4 H+ + 2 e− Ni2+ + 2 OH−
*+1.59
2 HClO(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− Cl2(g) + 2 H2O
*+1.63
Ag2O3(s) + 6 H+ + 4 e− 2 Ag+ + 3 H2O
*+1.67
HClO2(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− HClO(aq) +  H2O
*+1.67
Pb4+ + 2 e− Pb2+
*+1.69
[1]
MnO4− + 4 H+ + 3 e− MnO2(s) + 2 H2O
*+1.70
AgO(s) + 2 H+ +  e− Ag+ +  H2O
*+1.77
 H2O2(aq) + 2 H+ + 2 e− 2 H2O
*+1.78
Co3+ +  e− Co2+
*+1.82
Au+ +  e− Au(s)
*+1.83
[1]
BrO4− + 2 H+ + 2 e− BrO3− +  H2O
*+1.85
Ag2+ +  e− Ag+
*+1.98
[1]
S2O82− + 2 e− 2 SO42−
*+2.010
[2]
O3(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− O2(g) +  H2O
*+2.075
[5]
HMnO4− + 3 H+ + 2 e− MnO2(s) + 2 H2O
*+2.09
F2(g) + 2 e− 2 F−
*+2.87
[1][7]
F2(g) + 2 H+ + 2 e− 2 HF(aq)
*+3.05
[1]
*NADH dehydrogenase
NAD+ / NADH
−0.32[8]
*Succinate dehydrogenase
FMN or FAD / FMNH2 or FADH2
−0.20[8]
*Cytochrome bc1 complex
Coenzyx0ox / Coenzyme Q10red
+0.06[8]
*Cytochrome bc1 complex
Cytochrome box / Cytochrome bred
+0.12[8]
*Complex IV
Cytochrome cox / Cytochrome cred
+0.22[8]
*Complex IV
Cytochrome aox / Cytochrome ared
+0.29[8]
*Complex IV
O2 / HO-
+0.82[8]


FrznWtr

[dragon]

Well all... I tried several different steels and some copper and the winner is still the steel sheet. The copper seemed to have a bit more voltage but less current, the steel tubing wasn't impressive at all although it did work still low on current. The solid steel rods worked well.

I used the same length of magnesium in all the tests so they would be close to the same area for comparison. Graphite and iron powder are the real winners in power, steel sheet is the definite winner in cost and still retains a good current and voltage. Stainless works well but eats the magnesium quickly - not sure I understand exactly why...

So 12 hours on a "penny" battery is acceptable for a backup light. My 2 inch version is still going, just need to wet it now and then about 17 hours on that one. Easily runs 3 LED's in a JT brightly.

Time to move to the next phase... multi-layered cells to bump up the power a bit more and try to use water only to see if I can make them last longer.

Fun stuff...
________
ALASKA MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES

[jeanna]

Excellent tests dragon,

I did a test which I reported at ou where I soaked the cloth in either NaCl or MgSo4 solution.
They both make a better electrolyte than water alone, and the Epsom salts makes a slightly weaker output but the big difference is that the epsom salts doesn't corrode the mg ribbon as fast as the table salt.

These will turn off when dry.
In an extremely humid environment the battery will not turn off completely.
However, if you cover it more than half with masking tape, then the corrosion slows way down, I assume because there is less oxygen contacting the mg, but I cannot support that. anyway it slows down the corrosion yet when the cloth is very wet the current is good.

I realize these results lack numbers, but since the length of ribbon effects the current, I cannot calculate this in a meaningful way.


Thank you,
Hopefully we can get the bedini to work with this one day??

jeanna

[dragon]

Excellent tests dragon,

I did a test which I reported at ou where I soaked the cloth in either NaCl or MgSo4 solution.
They both make a better electrolyte than water alone, and the Epsom salts makes a slightly weaker output but the big difference is that the epsom salts doesn't corrode the mg ribbon as fast as the table salt.

These will turn off when dry.
In an extremely humid environment the battery will not turn off completely.
However, if you cover it more than half with masking tape, then the corrosion slows way down, I assume because there is less oxygen contacting the mg, but I cannot support that. anyway it slows down the corrosion yet when the cloth is very wet the current is good.

I realize these results lack numbers, but since the length of ribbon effects the current, I cannot calculate this in a meaningful way.


Thank you,
Hopefully we can get the bedini to work with this one day??

jeanna

Thanks jeanna, I'll give the Epsom salts a try. Finding a good combination of longivity and power is definately the key. I've noticed they last quite a while when driving a JT until its dry then rewetting it the next day. Runs for about 2 hours at which point it starts to flicker. I've run one like this for several days and it still works... so far although I don't think it has much more life in it. At least you can use them conservatively as opposed to a one shot deal.

How much power does a bedini need? I've run a kacher circuit with one and it does quite nicely pushing 150 volts on the scope. Not a huge field around it but it will light several LED's on an AV plug.

I had it in my mind that area had a large part to play for current output but with some of the results I've seen I'm not so sure I'm ready to jump to that conclusion.

A friend pointed out that the "Joule Thief" should be called an "oxygen Thief" when driven by a galvanic battery... is there a way to make a battery using a gas and solid? Aluminum/magnesium absorbs H2 and is a good energy storage system, H2 and oxygen is pure energy.....
________
BODY SCIENCE

[jeanna]

oxygen thief

.....
A friend pointed out that the "Joule Thief" should be called an "oxygen Thief" when driven by a galvanic battery... is there a way to make a battery using a gas and solid? Aluminum/magnesium absorbs H2 and is a good energy storage system, H2 and oxygen is pure energy.....

I don't know about absorbing but,
It is an interesting questiion and one that took me to the pacheco thread for a read.
If the magnesium (or aluminum for that matter) is in a basic environment, it will produce H2.
the pacheco invention somehow involves using 3 electrodes which when connected produce current in the water which also creates a basic solution which then releases H2 from the water.
It is too much chemistry for me, but it really is fascinating.
--
These galvanic 'batteries' brought me to a wall and I want to investigate that wall a bit.
I found that these galvanic things do not provide a lot of current and therefore restrict what goes to the jtc.
So, using this restricted current,
I want to compare identical jtc's where one uses the led at the transistor
and the other has NO led at the transistor, but has one using the secondary (which is my thing).

It should show if the transistor connection or the secondary needs more amps.
(I am sure the meters we use cannot answer this.)

--
About the SSG part of this,
John uses a 12v to run his wheel.
If the mA needed are high with that much voltage, then there is a lot of power needed to run this sg.
I want to look at this because with the no bearing one that johnnydavro invented the 12v is not necessary, but it still must be more than 6v. (A jtc can charge a battery to some degree from only 1.2v.)

[Also, getting 9v from the earth might be too hard since you cannot use series connection in earth batteries.]

The question I want to answer with the sg, is similar to my jt question. I want to know how much current is really needed to make it work. It seems to me if we can get one or a few of these galvanics to run a sg, we can really say what is happening from just the current element.

--
I am personally not ready to tackle the magnetic area yet, but I am gathering up my resources so I will in the future.
I think the real answer will be found when we can better incorporate the magnetics with the electricity.

(lots of talk for a sunday morning) ,

jeanna

[FrozenWaterLab]

EB Data

Well its been awhile - sorry
August 8 2010 4:30pm AST (Alaska Standard Time)

Last 30 days a week ago broke all records for rainfall here in my area.
I gotta work in it - so I will not be out in it if I don't have to.

This perhaps is the reason for the slight reduction from last voltage reading
3 - Holes (#1 & #2 with 4 ea and #3 with 3 Carbon rods)

All Current readings after 3min as initial reading drops right away

1st hole 2'7" deep to North has 4 carbon rods in it. All separated by 1' center fill. (Depth corrected as wires stick up 5")
A= 2" diameter x 2' to west at bottom of hole.
B= 3/4" Squair x 8" to north at bottom of hole.
C= 1/2" x 2" x 15" to east at bottom of hole.
D= 3/4" Squair x 8" to south at top of hole, Bottom of rod aprox. 1'
E= an 8' x 5/8" Ground rod driven flush 3' to west of 1st hole. (Lots of work this one)

-------------------------------------------

I had the A-carbon shorted to the 65' magnesium and
the D-carbon to the 5' Mg

I hooked the DMM leads to the wire before disconnection.
A at disconnect time read 1.14V - Two minutes later read 1.317
D at disconnect time read 1.14V and 1.264

After a 10min rest with no connection
A read 1.49V
D read 1.29V
(No conclusion here just data)

------------------------------------------------
Neg 60' away To

1A - 1.49V - 410uA
1B - 1.59V - 230uA
1C - 1.59V - 190uA
1D - 1.42V - 330uA
E - 1.47V - 560uA

----------------------------------------------------

On Hole#1 I did distance to neg Measurements
All 4 Pos carbons hooked together (Referred to as STAR)
To Single Neg Magnesium flush with surface


65' = 1.55V - 410uA
55' = 1.527V - 435uA
45' = 1.286V - 282uA
35' = 1.5V - 334uA
30' = 1.55V - 416uA
25' = 1.53V - 424uA
20' = 1.57V - 360uA
15' = 1.35V - 380uA
10' = 1.65V - 370uA
5' = 1.48V - 222uA

Neg=STAR(3) & Poss=STAR(4) Hole #1
1' = 1.57V - 1mA

-------------------------------------------------

Hole #1 Neg Mg's 6" - 12" - 5' distance

Neg Mg 6" distant
1a = 1.39V - 590uA
1b = 1.59V - 250uA
1c = 1.59V - 217uA
1d = 1.41V - 530uA

-----------

Neg Mg 12" distant

1a = 1.49V - 239uA
1b = 1.59V - 270uA
1c = 1.6V - 224uA
1d = 1.42V - 490uA

-------------

Neg Mg 5' distant

1a = 1.35V - 241uA
1b = 1.45V - 166uA
1c = 1.46V - 194uA
1d = 1.29V - 210uA

------------------------------------------------

6" & 1' Neg together

1a = 1.55V - 630uA down to 570uA
1b = 1.65V - 311uA down to 221uA
1c = 1.66V - 240uA down to 180uA
1d = 1.47V - 560uA down to 530uA

---------------------------------------------
5' & 6" Neg together

1a = 1.57V - 660uA
1b = 1.65V - 270uA
1c = 1.66V - 230uA
1d = 1.47V - 560uA


-----------------------------------------------

60' & 5' & 1' & 6" all STAR together = Neg Mg's

1a = 1.58V - 700uA Dt 620uA
1b = 1.62V - 310uA Dt 210uA
1c = 1.62V - 160uA Dt 130uA
1d = 1.47V - 650uA Dt 588uA

-----------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------

2nd hole 3' deep to North has 4 carbon rods in it. All separated by 1' center fill.
A= 2" diameter x 2' to west at bottom of hole.
B= 3/4" Squair x 8" to north at bottom of hole.
C= 1/2" x 2" x 15" to east at bottom of hole.
D= 3/4" Squair x 8" to south at top of hole, Bottom of rod aprox. 1'

Neg at 1'

2a = 1.69V - 240uA Dt 203uA
2b = 1.73V - 257uA Dt 220uA
2c = 1.77V - 250uA Dt 215uA
2d = 1.6V - 270uA Dt 264uA

2a&c = 1.76V 350uA Dt 320uA

--------------------

2 Neg Mg's and all 4 STAR Poss = 1.74V - 570uA Dt 505uA

3 Neg Mg's and all 4 Star Poss = V - uA

---------------------------------------
--------------------------------------

Hole #3 3' deep 3-Carbons
A= 2" diameter x 2' to west at bottom of hole.
B= 3/4" Squair x 8" to north at bottom of hole.
C= 1/2" x 2" x 15" to east at bottom of hole.

3 Neg Mg's at 6" - 12" - 18"

6" Neg
3a = 1.6V - 310uA
3b = 1.61V - 220uA
3c = 1.63V - 300uA

---------

12"neg
3a = 1.55V - 296uA
3b = 1.55V - 215uA
3c = 1.5V - 272uA

---------------

18"neg
3a = 1.45V - 270uA
3b = 1.47V - 195uA
3c = 1.5V - 264uA

-----------

All Neg Star
3a = 1.59V - 305uA
3b = 1.6V - 195uA
3c = 1.58V - 276uA

All 3 Neg Star - All 3 Poss Star

1.624V - 550uA

-----------------------------------------

Fence Chainlink type 200' ea side = Neg
Poss Holes in North East corner

DMM Neg to fence - DMM Pos to

E (Copper 8' Ground rod) = .75V - 330uA Dt 295uA
STAR H#1 = .84V - 500uA Dt 445uA (10' from East and North fence)
STAR H#2 = .84V - 270uA Dt 230uA (20' from E & 10 from N fence)
STAR H#3 = .711V - 124uA Dt 110uA (30' fron E & 10' from N fence)

Need to try Neg Mg STAR and Fence to STAR Poss all 3 holes
Then add Ground rod also
------------------------------------

OK Lots O data (Most of day and I still missed some)
From what I can see here where I am, it's not worth the effort to try for distance.
Prob. due to depth of my inclination angle.

I see an increase of both V & A by grouping elements
Weather clumped or strung out on meridian seams to be the same.
Depth is important for Positive element with proper Inclination Angle
(I need to try a Neg rod on its side say 1" in depth)
(I need to try carbon at the bottom of the hole) - This is another dig ;'(


I am going to place holes up by the house so I can run lines in for the winter.
Holes and copper ground rods will be in-frount of that Gray Glue Lam. ( that will be a ramp for the back deck for handy-capped access & my scooter)
Also notice the unused Ariel at about 30' (I have Cable now)
Don't know that much about radio or stuff like that but I'm learning.
Might try an Elevated Capacitance there. Alum glued to thin Plexie shouldn't be too heavy But will need to be at an angle to dump snow load.
I was woundering if Shinny aluminum foil on a heavy alum sheet would work?
Don't want to have to shine up a 1/4" sheet.
Any Ideas for further testing would be appreciated.

I'm to page 50 and reading on the data logging site.
To Pg 168 on Joe's NSRep thread and will read more
Then theirs Tishatang 's 1 PGer but need to get it also
AND etc etc

Hope you all enjoy the data
FrznWtr
PS Proper Digging Implements

[jeanna]

Stubblefield Primary finished

Hi everybody,

I finished my stubblefield primary today.

It has no shorts.
It has 5.5 ohm on the copper wire and
9 ohm on the iron wire.
The voltage before any water was 0.24v and after spray-wetting was
0.72v.

I have all the indications of a strong galvanic battery, but the magnetic field is so strong with no connections that it barely moves the compass when the outer to inner connections are made.
I hope this won't ruin my efforts.

I now need to make a good rotor.
I have yet to accomplish this and I must admit I feel a little discouraged.

About 2 months ago, I took a cd player apart and removed the cd rotor assembly.
and mounted some magnets on a cd.
but
I think it is not slippery enough.

The local computer fixer told me he might have a HD rotor he could let me have. He wanted to empty the data, he said??
Oh yeah, I forgot, there are people who would take that stuff and do bad things with it!!


Later, I will need to get the reed switch in the right position.
I bought the kind lasersaber suggested, so that should help.


jeanna

edit
I found a way to hold my compass steady while I touch leads together, and I am getting about 5 degrees of swing.
It is very slow, but repeatable.

[jeanna]

Step one and two are finished!

Hi folks,



I just made a rotor for my Nathan Stubblefield coil that really works.

And a short video.
I uploaded it directly from the camera, so it is bigger... sorry, but it is short.

The newest rotor that spinnnns!

I gave it a little push and IN place about 1 1/4 inches from the end of the coil this rotor turned for about a minute, then reversed for a few seconds.
This is a good rotor.
I think the coil might be exerting some action on it too, because it goes way longer than it did alone.

Thanks Lidmotor for the help and encouragement.
Thanks Lasersaber for the directions.

jeanna

[FrozenWaterLab]

New wheel

Cool Jeanna
Soon you will be pulsing the energy out of the ground. Woopee
The pulse motor is something I'm in the process of!
look forward to seeing yours completed.
FrznWtr

[Lidmotor]

A hybrid Stubblefield coil arrangement

@ Jeanna , FrozenWaterLab, and All
Lasersaber has built a miniature working Stubblefield coil that I am trying to replicate. I got far enough along with it yesterday that I was able to get it to work-- IF I added in a little more power with a tiny magnesium / copper battery. It made a hybrid arrangement that I felt was worth sharing so I made this video of it running my little Stubblefield pulse motor.

YouTube - Hybrid miniature Stubblefield coil.ASF

This got me thinking about other ways that we might be able to combine some of our great ideas ----and really run a Bedini SSG off an earth battery.

Cheers,

Lidmotor

[FrozenWaterLab]

Duality

Hi Lid
Interesting Vid
I'm thinking you might be the one to try something with Two NS Coils, as to weather they might effect one another due to proximity.
Quote IotaYodi
One of the possibility's with 2 units is having them adjacent to each other using each others collapsing fields to sustain operation eliminating the reed switch and rotor once its started. Or the rotor anyway.
End Quote
Have you seen the Dule coil set up Picture on the NS Replication sight?
Post #3423 on OU
Nathan]Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications
by Resotron (Don't know who that is, only post and no info on him available)

Most think this is a resent production. But in the Great Briton Patent alternating 5-10 & 6-10 inner to outer was mentioned back in 1898
GB189807577A is the gb patent number.
espacenet — Original document

If the coils were positioned next to one another.
You could have a rotor with two wheels and a common shaft.
Timming accomplished by one wheel being adjustable.
In the Duel Pic the bottom + & - appear to be an additional input point

Your so fast on this stuff is why I mention it.
I have just lastnight finished reading what I could find and am only beginning to set up.
FrznWtr