Earth Battery SG

[cody]

Interesting idea Vortex. I really like the idea of using activated carbon, i had been looking for a cheap source of carbon for the electrode. I wonder how well it conducts, some carbons i have tested are very poor, graphitezed carbons seem to work very well but not the powdered stuff. I would think that the salt would erode the electrodes and make it unusable over time, like a battery sulfating but, i dont know. Im betting that it would be much easier to get good results with the salt, but long term constant use will cause more problems than the earth battery.

The thing i like about just using the earth or regular water is that there is no electrolyte maintenance. Water naturally gathers ions from the environment, distilled (deionized) water will go right back to normal if you leave it sitting out. And the earth of course is a huge reservoir of energy. With the medium being recharged for free i think the only problem beyond that is finding the right electrode material that requires the least maintenance and cleaning, carbon is probably a great place to start. Once that is figured out, its just a matter of scaling it up to a size thats actually useful. Thats my take on it at least Thanks for the carbon idea, ill have to give it a try.

[cody]

A little update. I tested some activated carbon from the pet store and it conducts just fine, comparable resistance to motor brushes. Im sure i can find it even cheaper at walmart. Thank you very much Vortex for that idea, i will be using it.

[Vortex]

tests I've done with homemade charcoal do well, made via a woodgas stove.
how well compared to store purchased activated carbon, I don't know.
The charcoal that is made crushes into powder in your fingers.

in the saltwater battery the anode and cathode are both made of carbon
if I understand it correctly and it's the ions of dissolved salt that move
around.. not those of the anode/cathode.

[cody]

Homemade eh.. Alright im gonna try it. I think the main beneficial thing about the carbon being activated is that it makes the carbon porous, giving it a huge surface area compared to regular carbon stock. More surface area for less material would obviously seem better for batteries, but maybe not. It seems that it would be easy and cheap to just make your own so that might offset the size issue. Worth trying at least.

I dont understand how the salt water battery could have carbon for both electrodes. What determines which electrode is positive and negative?

[jeanna]

recycling the carbon granules

I used spent carbon granules from a brita filter. They were my best electrode of all.

I first took a copper pipe for use as a form, and wrapped many turns of unprinted newspaper and wrapped the bottom too like wrapping a tube present. Then I removed the pipe and added the granules.

I dug the hole first using the copper pipe and then the granules electrode fitted perfectly into the new hole.

jeanna

[cody]

ok made some charcoal from some hardwood(oak). Here are my results so far: I was able to achieve a decent voltage from a cell using the charcole and zinc in water, however the reading wasnt consistant across the whole piece of charcoal, probally due to my lack of charcole making skill. So yes i can confirm you results vortex. However there is one big issue i have with it; it has a very high resistance. At best i saw 2 M ohm across the piece, thats very high. I suspect trying to pull much amperage from something with such high resistance is not going to work very well. But more tests should be done. It may just be because Im a newbie to charcoal making.

Jeanna,
I too have been getting great results from the activated carbon like the stuff from your filter. I had no idea you guys had been using the stuff. I think im going to mess with the homemade stuff a little more but i think the activated carbon is going to be the way to go.

[Bodkins]

first great work everyone
(just one gram of activated carbon has a surface area in excess of 500 m2, as determined typically by nitrogen gas adsorption.)

when making charcoal shutting the air off after the gas has been relesed will let the charcoal cool in a airless container and not adsorb the nitrogen in the air but it will try too.

I did this and put the carbon under the ground where i planted stuff and its growth was long and higher than the others else where. the potatos i have not harvested yet.
also if i lime the ground the water will take the lime down and react with the carbon and release the nutrients locked in the carbon because its a filter.

antisoil erosion
good lucky!

[Vortex]

if you get excited about using charcoal.
here is a way to make all you can use.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...gas-stove.html
You can expect a single fuel load to reduce to 1/3 or 1/4 the original size.

You are DONE when the gases stop burning at the top of the stove and
you have red coals left. You dump the coals into a coffee can and cover the
open top with a sheet of metal and weight it down to extinguish them..

NOTE again, charcoal can be used to filter water.. !!
Good for anti-poisoning, you eat it.
plus as woodgas stove does not waste fuel as others stoves do.

[Vortex]

I dont understand how the salt water battery could have carbon for both electrodes. What determines which electrode is positive and negative?

The battery was Charged using an external battery.
That is how positive/negative is established, uptake of +/- ions in the saltwater.
Then when the battery is flushed with fresh water the battery is charged
even more due to the releasing of the first charge.
If the uptake of ions takes on a charge and the releasing of those ions adds to
the original charge .. why can you not uptake/release continuously?
Two tubes filled with charcoal ..connecting a saltwater container and freshwater container.

I never had much luck charging my homemade batteries.
It was always pretty wacky the results I got.
.. I have not tried a saltwater battery using just carbon.

[Vortex]

electrode idea.
Coffee filter, crushed carbon, bare copper wire.
Fold and roll up into a burrito and wrap with twist tie or rubber band.

These electrodes in saltwater, do take a charge.

[cody]

I have been running some tests with carbon and zinc and was wanting some feedback. Basically i dead shorted the cell for a few days. I was wanting to test recovery and plate condition after the short. The cell did recover up to full voltage over a few hours but the zinc plate has developed some visible corrosion I chose zinc and carbon because i thought i would not have any corrosion problems with them. Has anyone else noticed anything on their zinc plate? It may have just been a poorly galvanized piece so ill have to do some more tests.

[Vortex]

I have been running some tests with carbon and zinc and was wanting some feedback. Basically i dead shorted the cell for a few days. I was wanting to test recovery and plate condition after the short. The cell did recover up to full voltage over a few hours but the zinc plate has developed some visible corrosion I chose zinc and carbon because i thought i would not have any corrosion problems with them. Has anyone else noticed anything on their zinc plate? It may have just been a poorly galvanized piece so ill have to do some more tests.

material losses is basically how batteries work.. (at least the ones I've built)
Ions come off of and onto the metals.

Using no metals and just carbon electrodes the ions come from the
salt water and return back to the water.. thus non-corrosion???
Yes, it requires an external power source to charge it up.
No losses in the electrodes via uptake or release of ions ?? ??
That is why I brought the saltwater battery into the picture .. it
was not using metal electrodes.
Corrosion even happens using only water, it just happens slower.

FYI, A pineapple can is zinc coated on the inside

[cody]

[QUOTE]material losses is basically how batteries work..
Ions come off of and onto the metals./QUOTE]

Thanks Vortex,
I am aware of this, i was hoping that it wouldnt occure in this battery though or at least not as fast as i witnessed it. Good thinking with the carbon\carbon cell. Im just thinking that we know the earth has an enormous amount of energy and there has to be a way to tap it without destroying the plates Maybe a different material besides zinc that wont corrode. Maybe some conductive form of silicon. Anyone know a good source of silicon to test?

[cody]

crystal power

did a little test with some intresting results. I decided to test my little thought above with the silicon. Between carbon and a quartz crystal i was able to get a voltage. It wasnt a very impressive reading, just below half a volt, but still, it works. I bet a more pure form of silicon would preform better. If your going to try this you may need to wet the spot of the crystal where you are probing it to get a connection to it, at least that is how it was appearing to work best. More tests to be done yet. The crystal has a huge resistance, in fact my meter couldnt even measure it because it was so high, it appears that it isnt even conductive so i didnt think it was going to work, but it did.

[freshearth]

literally "shocked" by earth battery-- a story

Don't want to get anyone off topic, but thought I'd share an earth battery anecdote to perhaps grease the wheels of discussion....

A few years back I was working on the foundation of a building. We were building a pole building 40 x 90 or so. The foundation was about 10 ft deep and we had sunk a bunch (maybe 100 or more) of 90 degree rebar angles into concrete blocks around the base. The rebar was sitting on the ground waiting to have the concrete pad poured onto it, so there was a lot of metal. The rebar were all linked together by wire (perhaps putting the rebar "in series" somehow).

anyway, to make a long story story short, at one point, I grabbed a hold of one of the rebar and recieved a giant shock! It was stronger than a 120 house current, but not quite as strong as 240v current from a stove, as I have been shocked by both so I have frames of reference. There was no power in the area so it had to have come from the earth.

Two items to note. one was that the place sits supposedly on a giant ley line. the other is that there were quite a lot of iron filings (and perhaps other minerals) in the ground that were perhaps a natural feature of the area. It also is quite near to the active volcano zones of Cascadia.

I'm not sure why it was working with such strong current, perhaps someone here can provide some insight on what it might take to get close to 240v from an earth battery.

Any ideas?