Brushless Electric Hub Bicycle Motors

[gmeat]

excellent find ,thanks.
the batteries are the weakest link in this type of transportation ,bedini and others will most likely solve this problem link and we will all benefit as a result and move on from the gas engine (hopefully before the proposed 5-6 or10$ a gallon prices) . i was surprised the partial schmatic was on site. i wish i could find the voy 36volt system schematics. i can reverse engineer ,as i probably will and post mods .

Hi Imhotep,


I'm glad you enjoyed that link.Try searching on the other link suggestions i gave also,It seems like I get better results looking for a switched reluctance motor using MSN search as apposed to Google .It would be nice if Someone would put together a motor package (to energetic forum members lol)for a reasonable price based on the Lindemann concept.Oh well,It's nice to dream anyways .


-Gary

[muttdogg]

ebike

To Tishatang:
No, the motot is directly attached to the hub of the rear wheel, ar leasr in this set-up. A friction motor, has too much loss, due to well, friction. Also there is greater wear and tear on the tire. Also I have tried placing the magnets on the wheel itself. Now, I do not know how it would work in other places with nice smooth roads, but here in Houston,the roads are very rough, so the magnets keep falling of as they must be glued into place. My suggestion would be to get a disc brake that fits your bicycle, remove the caliper, and mount the magnets, somehow, to the disc. I cannot afford it at the moment, so I can't try it. Also get the fattest wheel that will fit on that rim. You'll need the cushion.

To Imhotep:
The motor and lights on you scooter are probably hooked in parallel to the battery. That is probably why the lights brighten when you coast, or stop. Try disconnecting the lights, and see if you get more speed. Run the non-motor electronics off a second battery. This I have not done myself, but seems logical. I do not have a scooter.

To all:
One of the problems I have run into is the switching from one battery to another, while using back emf and fly-back. I think if this is solved, the range of an ebike would make it an effective enough vehicle to get more cars off the road. Speed would not be increased this way. Even though where it would be most useful would be city driving,where you really don't go that fast anyway.

[muttdogg]

Johnson motor

Hey Lighty;
Where can I find this Johnson motor
Dan

[lighty]

You can find all relevant links to his patents on PESWiki

Another good resource is RexResearch

You can also look into great book on magnets and magnetism by Johnson himself on Scribd (and yes, I do hate Scribd).

[Tishatang]

Ultimate Ebike?

OK, So you have $1600 and you want to build the latest state of the art Ebike. Go here:

Hybrid bike design optimization | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist

If you can afford $160 each, these are the batteries of choice.

They are referred to as the A123. To see what they can do go here:

YouTube - A123 powered Hyperion 85" Yak 54

Awesome display of power.

I suppose Version 2 of this Ebike would be to install a mini Bedini energizer to charge two batteries while you ride on two? See this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-must-see.html

For me, I am content to be able to recycle old batteries and convert them to alkaline cells, info also furnished by John Bedini. See this thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ls-plates.html

I guess I am getting renewed interest in Bedini. These last two links are very self-empowering. This energetic forum rocks.

Tishatang
Chris

[Tishatang]

Rim Drive Bedini

@Muttdogg

Dan
I have been thinking about your Ebike idea. If you can solve the magnets falling off problem, a rim drive would certainly has a lot of advantages. For one, namely torque. Compared to the diameter of a disk brake, the diameter of the wheel would give you 3 times the torque right off the bat.

I can think of a way you might be able to do this, but it will be a labor of love.
If it works, you will have a working prototype, that maybe you could get an investor interested? You could then contract a wheel company to make custom high impact plastic wheels with the magnets embedded in them. These could be sold to bike manufacturers or you could offer them as a kit. A rim drive bike would certainly be unique in the world of Ebikes. My proof of principal for Elias to build will be a rim drive as well.

Anyway, here is my idea for your wheel.
In the 1970's there was a Mother Earth News article about building a circular water cistern out of cement. The trick was to have a vertical pipe driven into the ground as the pivot point for a movable small casting form. This form had the curvature of the inside and outside walls of the cistern. Wet cement would be poured into the mold and when it hardened enough, it was pivoted the next spot to be poured. So, little by little, the cistern would be built using this small form (mold).

Using this same principal, you could fabricate a small mold that held two, three or four magnets. It would pivot from the axle shaft. It would have two ends and two faces. The part looking at the axle would be open. You mark on one of the removable face that holds the magnets position. Place the magnets into the marks with double sided tape to hold them. Set the wheel upright and fill with fiberglass resin. When it hardens enough, release the mold and pivot it to the next position. Design the mold to have about a one inch gap between them. Start with a space at the valve core. The spokes will hold everything in place once hardened. Use fiber reinforced resin available at marine supplies to repair boat transoms. This will hold everything together if the casting cracks.

I don't know if this idea works from your point of view. I just thought I would share it with you.

Tishatang
Chris

[Tishatang]

4X3 Motor

Elias

We need to make the stand to hold the bike wheel. I was just going to use 3/8 plywood, but you may have something else on hand? We are going to build a simple long rectangular box 3 inches wide by 6 inches longer than the wheel's diameter. This will give us 3 inch working room at the top and bottom of the stand. The width will be equal to the width of the axle shafts. So, when bolted together it will be parallel looking at it edgewise. Put everything together with screws and bolts so it can be disassembled. Bolt the bottom end plate to a heavy board to make everything stable. When we are finished we will have a stand 3 inches wide and extending 3 inches above the wheel and 3 inches below the wheel.

Get about a 6 inch long piece of vinyl hose the correct diameter and fill with the round neo's making a rod inside about 4 inches long. Leave space at each end to add more magnets of about one inch. Tape this assembly to the wheel gently making the straight rod bend as you tape it down into positionl

Now get two of the ceramic bar magnets and shim them so you have a small clearance for the curved neo's to pass through at the bottom of the stand. These will be in repell polarity and the long ends horizontal and parallel to the wheel as it passes through.

My mind likes to see the wheel revolving counter clockwise, so pivot the whole thing around so the magnets on the wheel are on your left and the bar magnets are on your right with the magnetic field bucking against the wheel entering the gate. Now comes the crucial test. Gently force the wheel through the gate. If all goes well, once past the gate the wheel will accelerate through. If this happens, then we have proved that we at least have the basis for a pulsed flux gate motor!!

I am now going to assume it passes this test. Now we are going to add a magnet or two to the open ends of the tube taped to the wheel. Each time we add more magnets and gently force it through the gate, it should accelerate faster and higher. You may have to add another tube with magnets. Finally one of two things should happen. (I think?)
The gods are with us and it finallyaccelerates over the top and we have a self runner just as it stands. Or, more likely, there will be a point where adding more magnets causes less acceleration and less height achieved. The highest point is the optimum number of round neos on the wheel for these ceramic magnets.

We can now do the following things:
1 We can give the wheel a spin through the gate adding velocity and momentum to the mix.
2 We can substitute Neos for the ceramic bar magnets now that we have a stand to hold them. Find the optimum number of wheel magnets using Neo bar magnets.
3 We can add some weight to the opposite side with modeling clay or something.
4 We can experiment and see if adding flux shields helps gain height after the gate. Do this by sticking mu metal on the front edge of the gate and see what happens. Give it a spin. Did it spin longer? Let it fall through the gate while you are holding the shields in your hands. As soon as it enters the gate, remove the shields as it is accelerating through. This should be the best effect if there is one?

Based on what we learn here, we are ready to got to phase II where we build another box stand crossing the existing stand at right angles. We will assemble it in an "X" configuration with the bottom two ends bolted to the base board for stability. This will be the test stand for the 4X3 Motor configuration.

I hope all goes well
thanks
Chris

[elias]

Hi Chris

Sorry I didn't see your last post. Anyway, I understand your concept of 3x4 but as I was wondering around I came up across this idea:
MAGNET MOYTORS which is similar in some aspects to your idea. He claims that it is a variation of the Howard Johnson motor. It also complies with the 90 degree rule. Since it is easier to build I will try that out first.

I had made a magnet motor by using the 90 degree principle about a year ago, but it did not work, when I added four stators evenly around the motor. It seemed to give out a one-way torque when it was asymmetric, but when I completed the loop it did not work. I don't know if this design may have the same problem, or not. I couldn't see the youtube video because the link seemed not to be functioning.

Anyway. I have made my mind to build a PMM trying the methods I know up to now.

Thanks

Elias