A Word On Permanent Magnetic Motors...

[Matthew Jones]

Hey
I have enough magnets to do it. Its making the wheel that I have never gotten done.
I have spent some time coming up with something smaller version but to no avail as of yet.

Matt

[Turion]

Wheel Stand for Large Wheels

Here's the wheel stand I made. Just need to drill some holes in my uprights to drop it down a ways, and mount my V Track on the metal rails at the bottom. The stand will support anything up to an 8 foot wheel without too much additional engineering because of the way its constructed. It came from an old "Ironman" treadmill---the kind you can fold up when you aren't using it. That was a real find because I scavenged the rollers, the frame, the motor, and a ton of other usable electronic parts. The only thing that ended up in the dump was some of the plastic pieces. Everything else went into my parts bins.

If I ever build the Bedini Ferris Wheel, this is the perfect frame for it!

YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

Some of my magnets for this have come in, but not near enough to go all the way around the wheel. My birthday is coming up, and I have the most amazing wife, so who knows what might happen!

And here's a little video of my V track replication. I need spacers between my "run" magnets, and they should be neos too, but the round ceramic are ok to show what it does. Even though this one does not work as well as it should, I know PART of the reason why. Spacing between magnets has something to do with it. I know that when I had nothing separating my run magnets from the neos on the side except a thin sheet of plastic, they would hang up at every "corner" going down the tube. It wasn't until I gave them the proper spacing that it actually worked, so spacing between my magnets is a critical issue. The end magnet sees the magnet coming at it as one long magnet and wants to center on it, instead of seeing a bunch of overlapping magnetic fields coming at it like it should. I'll be going to the store today for some plastic spacers and we will see. Anyway, here's the video. My alignment is also off a little, which I talk about in the video. That's important too.
YouTube - 11Turion's Channel

[wayne.ct]

Inconclusive Results from my Interpretation and Replication of Perendev's Concept

To understand the attached images you will need to read my posts that preceed this entry. I think
I am using Perendev's idea, as explained earlier.

Things to notice:

The rotor magnets are tilted to form a sort of cone.
The stator magnets are also tilted to form a sort of cone.
The rotor can be positioned along the axle shaft using a collar and set screw.
Thus, the distance between the rotor magnets and stator magnets can be adjusted.
The construction is not sturdy enough to handle the force of the one-inch-long stator magnets.

Result: nothing can be proved or disproved based on this build but I hope to build a better one in the future.

If a reader wants to create a build based on this design, I will try and give assistance. My
construction technique and finances are simply not up to the task. My brother is better with
mechanics than I am and we will be working together on a stronger version.

This is part 1 of 2 because I have more than 6 images.

Wayne

[wayne.ct]

Part 2 of 2

Hey Dave,

I like what you are doing with the 4' wheel. I hope you get the rest of your magnets soon. I want to see how it goes.

Here are the rest of the pictures of my build.

Wayne

[Turion]

I know the link I am about to post has nothing to do with the V Track, but it does show some interesting things about the reactions of magnets in overlapping magnetic fields that might be applied in the construction of a permanent magnet motor. I was particularly interested in how movement of magnets on the straight bar caused the magnets on the circular magnet to "spin" around it, which is the kind of thing we would like to have happen in a magnetic motor.

In addition, I will throw something else in here I have been working on. several neos attached to the end of a coil. The magnetic field is transfered through the core of the coil, causing it to act as if it were a magnet, either attracting or repulsing magnets that are near to it. It will also attract the core of a second coil. When I pulse the coil with electricity, that magnetic attraction is instantly removed (The astronaut's boots??) for the period of time that the electricity flowed. This is the only way I know to stop the attraction of a permanent magnet, by forcing it through the core of a coil and controlling the coil.

YouTube - Magnet Gun

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but I thought it was good info.

[Matthew Jones]

IThis is the only way I know to stop the attraction of a permanent magnet, by forcing it through the core of a coil and controlling the coil.
Sorry if this is a little off topic, but I thought it was good info.

Have tried wrapping the magnet with wire?

Matt

[Turion]

Have tried wrapping the magnet with wire?

Matt

Yeah, and that is the same effect. Using the magnet itself as the core of the coil instead of separate coil material. Using a coil seems to take less energy, and last longer for the same amount of voltage, so I guess it depends upon your application which is best to use.

David Bowling

[Shadesz]

Glad you linked to this. Personally I think it is quite promising!

[Shadesz]

nevermind maybe not (what this post used to say) I still think there is promise here!

[Shadesz]

Magnetic Rail Gun Science Project - YouTube

[Matthew Jones]

Magnetic Rail Gun Science Project - YouTube

I have seen that, wonder where they got it? LOL

Lots of possibilities, come lots of expenses.

Cheers
Matt

[irishman]

just wondering? is there any companies selling a working magnet motor as we speak? if not,,,why not?

[Shadesz]

Since Irishman asked I figured I will report my experience with magnetic accelerators. This will be in journal form, take from it what you want. I no longer see the potential of this setup. Someone else may have a different experience.

Adjustments to Mathews design....

Instead of glued magnets on either side of a wood track I aligned the glued magnets on both sides of a vinyl tube. The inside of the tube was lubricated with machine oil. The traveling magnets were sent through the tube.

This design allows you to put accelerator magnets on all sides of the tube if you want. It also allows you to loop the track if you want. Oh, and lastly, you can wrap the tube directly with a coil and still see acceleration as the accelerating magnets force the traveling magnets directly through the coil.

Anyways, we will get to that.

I was curious if the angle of the glued magnets made any difference in propulsion. I glued 5 magnets together per side (1 inch by 2 inch by .5 inch ceramics). In one case I glued them so they were @ a 20 degree angle from the tube. In another I angled them at a 45 degree angle. I tested these 30 times each.

Results from both of them were the same... 44.25 inch average distance from the accelerator to the location that the traveling magnet stopped.

Seeing that the angle of the accelerator magnets did not matter I decided to align them flat against the tube. Same poles facing the tube on either side. Again 5 magnets long, again the same distance out.

Note: The inner diameter of the tube was 5/8" and the diameter of the traveling magnets was 1/2". There was a decent amount of play between the two. Occasionally this caused the traveling magnet to mis-align in the tube and grind against the tube causing increased friction. This will be important to know later.

Ok, so now I realized that you didn't need to glue magnets together all fancy like, you could just align them so they had same polarities facing into the track(tube). I tested it again with only one magnet length and again, a similar (albeit about 15% less) distance of output.

Next I made a circular track and lined the inside and outside with magnets and in between them I put my tubing. Note, the entire length had the same polarity facing inwards on both sides. No gap in magnets.

I placed my traveling magnet in the tube and it began as expected, but, because of the binding friction I talked about earlier it did not travel the length of the circle (24 inch diameter).

I then gaped the outer magnets so they lined up straight across form the inner magnets and tried again. The traveling magnet had a hard time making it between the gaps, even though they were on only one side of the tube.

Increasing the length of the traveling magnet (by sticking more of them together) corrected this problem if the traveling magnet was long enough to enter one magnet gate before completely leaving the last, more or less.

Although this fixed that problem, the "propulsion" force would not continue through the circle and the magnet would stop.

I went back to test linear propulsion and found out a few things. First, at some point, when the accelerator gets too long, you loose the acceleration, and it actually starts to perform worse. Second, the acceleration distance seems to originate where the traveling magnet enters the accelerator and NOT where it leaves the accelerator. Third, for any design of magnet chains within the tube, I could not get the out power of one accelerator to be large enough to push another magnet into another accelerator.

It is my opinion that even though there appears to be an increase in force, it really is just an illusion created as the potential force (resistance as you push the magnet into the accelerator) is instantaneously released at the moment the traveling magnet actually enters the accelerator.

IMO there isn't much to pursue here. I am moving on. Maybe others can find something I didn't? Who knows? If you want to try it, the tube design is pretty slick.

[Matthew Jones]

I could not get the out power of one accelerator to be large enough to push another magnet into another accelerator.

It a shame, as many people as I have tried to stress the 30/60 deg. rule to no one ever listens.

Magnets pulling other magnets in.
MagTrack3 - YouTube

You have seen this one it is outlined earlier, but it does not have a significant resistance in the beginning as some of the others do. It cannot be a spring loaded assembly simply because it takes far less to push it in over a shorter distance than it puts out.

LatestAssembly.MPG - YouTube

One of these days there will be enough witness's

I would like to see some of your assemblies.

Matt

[Shadesz]

Matthew thank you for the response. The trouble I had getting the magnet to enter the second accelerator was on a straight line. The rotated tube worked great. I used a smaller tube cut into pieces as a spacer between magnets. I saw zero difference between angles though and honestly think you are just wasting money by doubling magnets so they stack in a 30 60 angle. But that's my observation/opinion.

I saw that video, and will reconsider my conclusion if you show a video of three or so separate accelerators... having the chain continue through all three of them. I could get one magnet to pull enough to get another in THE SAME ACCELERATOR, but taking it past that was a different story. Post the video, I want to believe it could still work, but I just can't atm.