Question about saving Gas

[ANTIQUER]

Bio-diesel

Hey Woody ;

Here's some hard data you will find interesting. Our local Lynx bus system started operating on bio-diesel about 3 months ago for all the usual "green" reasons, and it is cheaper per gallon. Now they are spending more on maintainence than they are saving on fuel as the filters on the fuel lines are plugging up 3-4 times faster than with regular diesel.

Al

[Aaron]

rxp and biodiesel

Those buses need to add rxp to their biodiesel to keep anything from clogging.

[wpage]

Beautiful Data

You guys are alright.

Gotta love results...

Doing some testing with several devices now...
Hydrogen Booster
Efie
Acetone mixtures currently with xylene and diesel

It may take a while to decode or pick up the pieces from experiments. But thats science!

Lets be sure to share/post all gatherd information so we can learn together whats real and whats untrue

W

[citfta]

Re: Biodiesel

My son and I have been using biodiesel for several years now. He has been using it for 5 years and I have been using it for 4. Yes when you first start using it in any vehicle you will have to change the filters several times depending on how long the vehicle was used on regular diesel and the quality of the diesel put into it. Biodiesel has a strong tendency to clean out all the gunk left in the tank and fuel lines. After the gunk is cleaned out you will not have to replace filters anymore than with regular diesel if your biodiesel is of good quality. We make our own biodiesel and are very careful to clean the fuel and filter it before we put it into our vehicles. We use it for 2 Kabota tractors, a dozer, 2 dodge trucks, my mercedes and my daughter in law's 2006 Jetta.


citfta

[Tishatang]

Hi All,

Regarding the use of acetone as a additive, it seems you should fool the O2 sensor to richen the mixture, not lean the mixture. This seems counter intuitive.
Article here:

Article:Truth About Acetone and Ethanol - PESWiki


The secret, known to racing technology, banned and forgotten a half a century ago, is that such fuels as acetone REQUIRE richening of the fuel:air mixture to make use of them. It is said that in those early days of racing, some used as much as 10% acetone additive. I am using less than 1%. Specifically 1:128.

With my emissions at slightly cleaner than gasoline, but my MPG at double what it was, a REAL REDUCTION IN EMISSIONS has been achieved. Fully 50% reduction.

The recent G8 summit set the goal of reducing emissions by 50% by the year 2050. President Bush has signed in to law the requirement for vehicles to get 37mpg by 2020.

We have the technology RIGHT NOW to achieve this IMMEDIATELY.

Reprogramming auto computers is already possible and programs and devices are on the market to do so.

A simple solution for the do-it-yourself mechanic, until the use of the technology becomes affordable and the additives are at the pump, is to TRICK your O2 sensors into making the computer richen. This can be done by either creating an exhaust leak in front of the sensor or by removing the sensor from the exhaust and letting it read pure atmosphere, which is 20.9% O2. The latter will richen mixture to MAXIMUM allowing the most acetone possible and the most HP AND MPG. I have not tried the latter and do not know how well it would work or to what level of increase in HP and MPG might be possible. Try this at YOUR OWN RISK.

Note: New vehicles will FAIL EMISSIONS TESTS if too much O2 is reported by the computer. So make your exhaust leak sealable and reseal it for your test. If you remove the sensor, simply replace for the test.

********

For those of you who choose to use acetone, try a richer mixture and see what happens.

Chris

[wpage]

Open Loop = Rich

Hi All,

Regarding the use of acetone as a additive, it seems you should fool the O2 sensor to richen the mixture, not lean the mixture. This seems counter intuitive.
Article here:

Article:Truth About Acetone and Ethanol - PESWiki


The secret, known to racing technology, banned and forgotten a half a century ago, is that such fuels as acetone REQUIRE richening of the fuel:air mixture to make use of them. It is said that in those early days of racing, some used as much as 10% acetone additive. I am using less than 1%. Specifically 1:128.

With my emissions at slightly cleaner than gasoline, but my MPG at double what it was, a REAL REDUCTION IN EMISSIONS has been achieved. Fully 50% reduction.

The recent G8 summit set the goal of reducing emissions by 50% by the year 2050. President Bush has signed in to law the requirement for vehicles to get 37mpg by 2020.

We have the technology RIGHT NOW to achieve this IMMEDIATELY.

Reprogramming auto computers is already possible and programs and devices are on the market to do so.

A simple solution for the do-it-yourself mechanic, until the use of the technology becomes affordable and the additives are at the pump, is to TRICK your O2 sensors into making the computer richen. This can be done by either creating an exhaust leak in front of the sensor or by removing the sensor from the exhaust and letting it read pure atmosphere, which is 20.9% O2. The latter will richen mixture to MAXIMUM allowing the most acetone possible and the most HP AND MPG. I have not tried the latter and do not know how well it would work or to what level of increase in HP and MPG might be possible. Try this at YOUR OWN RISK.

Note: New vehicles will FAIL EMISSIONS TESTS if too much O2 is reported by the computer. So make your exhaust leak sealable and reseal it for your test. If you remove the sensor, simply replace for the test.

********

For those of you who choose to use acetone, try a richer mixture and see what happens.

Chris

Chris,

This Rich mix requirement which to a o2 sensor = open loop puts me in a dilema. Since I have a hydrogen booster that delivers a hydrogen kick. I use a Efie to lean out my mix to extreme "closed loop" condition from the 02 sensor.

That is a interesting data factoid that certainly indicates acetone works
now at least in several well documented cases...

Wrainbow: :

[framednlv]

RE: acetone

found this article:
Why acetone damages cars (and other answers) - ConsumerMan - MSNBC.com

Chris

[Aaron]

solvent or something else?

I'm cautious of nbc or any major company easily dismissing potentially helpful things.

They say it is a solvent and will eat gaskets. That may be true, I don't know if it is, but gasoline is a pretty good solvent and it doesn't eat my gaskets that I know of, xylene is one too and that doesn't eat gaskets. Methanol is a solvent and that doesn't eat gaskets either.

What makes acetone so special that even though the others are solvents as well that acetone is blamed for eating gaskets BECAUSE it is a solvent. This may be true but I'd like to see some honest tests with engine tear downs with and and without acetone being used to see a comparison.

[Tishatang]

@wpage
An easy way to create a leak ahead of the O2 sensor, would be to use a non-fouler adapter for a spark plug. You could drill a small hole into the adapter from the side. Then screw the adapter into the exhaust manifold and then install the sensor. You may have to enlarge the non-fouler orifice larger in a drill press?

It will be several months before I am in a position to try this on my own vehicle. To me, the benefits outweigh the risks in using acetone. I will try it and see for myself.

Chris

[FuzzyTomCat]

I'm cautious of nbc or any major company easily dismissing potentially helpful things.

They say it is a solvent and will eat gaskets. That may be true, I don't know if it is, but gasoline is a pretty good solvent and it doesn't eat my gaskets that I know of, xylene is one too and that doesn't eat gaskets. Methanol is a solvent and that doesn't eat gaskets either.

What makes acetone so special that even though the others are solvents as well that acetone is blamed for eating gaskets BECAUSE it is a solvent. This may be true but I'd like to see some honest tests with engine tear downs with and and without acetone being used to see a comparison.

Hey Aaron,

Do you think that a test putting some different gasket materials such as buna, viton and some compound gaskets inside a baby food jar with the solvents in question for a period of time, and see what happens would work. That way possibly one could see anything that is totally obvious happening and check periodically for mushy or brittleness to the gaskets.

Glen

[Aaron]

gasket solvent test

Hi Glen,

That sounds like a reasonable, simple, low budget test.

I don't know too much about the materials they can be made from but did learn about viton oil pump seals for oil furnaces for using up to B100 (100% biodiesel) since it is quite a solvent and normally leaks past normal seals.

I hear the space shuttle o-rings were made of viton but don't know if that is true but back in high school, I remember apex seals for rx-7 rotary's that were supposed to be the same material as space shuttle o-rings but didn't know they were viton if they are the same things.

Anyway, seal and/or gasket material soaked in the different solvents probably would be a good test.

I know there are alternative to conventional gaskets. There are metal head gaskets for example...like 1-2mm thick for an L-28 (Nissan/Datsun 280Z) engine in case you want to lower the compression to put on a turbo kit. Some of them gaskets were pure metal and there is no way any of those solvents are going to touch that. Some of them were coated in some type of rubber to give a better seal more for long term driving and not just a few times down a strip. I don't know what that coating was made of.

So, I'm sure for every gasket problem with any solvent there is a solution. Use a different additive or use different gaskets.

[ANTIQUER]

Who owns the gas & oil co.s?

Hi Aaron;

While checking wiki. for info. on acetone I ran across this on who owns the Federal Reserve and the auto companies & the oil companies. Anyone who doubts they are all owned by the same people needs to see this.

As far as using acetone in your fuel the reports and info. are all over the place. Some report big increases in mpg, some report losses in mpg, some no difference.

Most have reported no damage, a few have had damage, but many warn against it as components vary so much in different vehicles and various fuel system parts.

The other 2 main concerns are paint damage and flammability.

Overall view seems to be use it at your own risk.

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Well, lets try that link again.

Federal Reserve Bank, ownership - The Lawful Path

Al

[ANTIQUER]

Hey Glen;

Here are reports from several sources that have tried this with links to other studies.

Directory:Acetone as a Fuel Additive - PESWiki

Al

[Aaron]

use proven additives

That geneology report makes your head swim!

This additive RXP Gas Kicker has been sold at thousands of Autozone stores around the states and other stores or many years and outperforms every other mass produced fuel additive for improving gas mileage and reducing emissions.

You can call just about any Autozone store and they'll have it. Even just using it for 2-3 tanks improves performance because it cleans out everything!

There are many additives that really work but of course the o2 sensor will sabotage the real gains.

There is a local power company that used RXP Generation II (upgraded version of RXP Gas Kicker) on their fleet and got about 12% increase in diesel mileage even though they were told they might get 5%. The main reason for using it was to reduce emissions for carbon credits.

Florida DOT got a 12.5% increase on fuel mileage on a small fleet over a 1 year test. Here are the logs: http://www.rxp.com/dot_test.pdf
I actually looked up the driver names who worked with the DOT there, contacted a few of them that I could find online and they told me YES, they were involved with the test and it was legit and really worked. This was about 2-3 years ago or something.

The Air Force tested it on a jet simulator at Wright Patterson AFB and it reduced particle emissions at cruising speed by over 50%!!!!!!!!!!! It outperformed 100% of every other additive they ever tested.

""Tests conducted by the AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY showed a fifty-two percent (52%) reduction in particulates at cruise power. These tests were conducted using an advanced combustor simulator.""

"Ongoing tests being conducted by a retired naval office, Mark Sherman, now president of the Classic Jet Aircraft Association (CJAA), have also been positive. “In an F104 with a J79 engine we have eliminated smoking and recorded an average eight percent (8%) savings in fuel. This is a significant savings in a jet engine,” says Sherman. "

It is a paid article but:
Air Force Programs to Reduce Particulate Matter Emissions from Aircraft
The RXP charts in this study that isn't shown on that first free page that I've seen before show clearly that the greatest particulate emission reduction came from RXP. The air force claims that when there is more funding, they'll continue the testing. LOL More likely they're done with it since it shows to work too well for corporate interests.

Railroad companies use RXP premixed in their fuel again because it beats the pants off any other fuel additive.