Harvey Kiker | Kiker Performance Products

[Ozicell]

Kiker replicant pics

Thanks Rosco,

The first pic is the coil to distributor lead and the second is the one firing the plug - distributor to plug lead.

[Ozicell]

Pics explanation

Thanks Rosco,

The first pic is the coil to distributor lead and the second is the one firing the plug - distributor to plug lead.

The copper tubing is slightly smaller than the patents recommend but it's what I had on hand. It's continuous from 1 terminal to the next. The insulation is polycarbonate tubing and it appears to provide a better spark!
Cheers
Jeff

[Ozicell]

I Agree Totally

Hi Rick,
With Toyota sometimes their svc mgrs can be a little sticky on mods...

If your Prius is still under warrentee. Be certain to keep all your old stuff so you can put all back on if you have a issue.

W

I have always kept all my original parts just incase I need a mechanic and I am WAAAAY out of warranty! It keeps me from having to explain things to people who think they know better!

Cheers
Jeff

[FuzzyTomCat]

but just plug the correct values in and here's what you get for 1/4" copper tubing : (s.a. = surface area)
Outside s.a. = 3.143 x .250" x 1" height = 0.786 sq inches, rounded up.
Inside s.a. = 3.143 x .125" x 1" height = 0.393 sq inches, rounded up.
Total s.a. = .786 + .393, or 1.179 sq inches.

Before, I thought we were comparing the surface area of a solid conductor to a tube. Stranded wire figures differently, of course. For the wire, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that a 7 stranded cable with an outside diameter being approximately the same as the outside diameter of a 1/4 inch tube, has 7 strands inside - each with a .077" diameter. Okay, then figuring one strand's lateral surface area, the formula for surface area is:
Outside s.a. for 1 strand = Pi x .077" x 1" height = 0.242 sq inches.
And total s.a. for cable = .242 x 7, or 1.694 sq inches.

So yes, the stranded wire cable actually has more surface area, and 0.515 square inches more, to be exact. The question here, though, is: Can the 1/4inch diameter stranded wire cable transfer more power faster than the the 1/4 inch tubing, and the answer is - definitely not. Here's why:

Hey Rick,

So we agree on my original post #7 on this thread with the surface area of the 1/4" tube compaired to a #4 AWG wire rated at 95 amps. If the current requirements for a vehicle starter is 1.2 to 1.8 KW at 12volts nominal how can a conductor (tube) with a surface area .52 sq.in. smaller "per inch" in length supply the same current, a load is a load ? The reduction in surface area of the tube is over 30% thats a lot simular to using a #8 AWG wire rated at 50 amps to energize a 112 amp starter ? If you put something inside of the tube such as a insulated solid #10 AWG wire it would get a lot closer to the amperage requirements needed, and maybe the tube would be easyer to bend without getting any kinks and crimping terminals on the ends would be tighter. I'm not opposed to this tube idea just seems like a really weird concept. And using copper tubes for spark plug wires on vehicles what about "RF" problems ?

Best Regards,
Glen

[rickoff]

I agree too

Yes, gentlemen,

I agree with you, and have kind of been a pack rat all my life besides. I save all kinds of auto parts. Still have remnants from nearly every car I ever owned. My original factory warranty will expire in about 2,500 miles, although I did purchase an extended warranty when I bought the vehicle. The electric motors and the battery pack are actually covered for 10 years on the basic warranty, and some older Prius models have gone 250k miles on the original batt pack. Toyota dealers like to talk people into swapping out their batt pack every couple of years or so, to maintain best operational characteristics, but it really isn't necessary. The reason they do that is because they are paid $200 for each battery they recycle.
The main reason why the battery packs last so long is that they are only charged to 60% of their actual capacity, and the purpose of that is to leave plenty of room for regenerative effects of braking, downhill coasting, etc.

Oops, almost missed your post, Glen! Yes, we agree that the stranded wire cable has more surface area than the tube, and that each strand passes most of its current near its outer surface, but the cable bundle itself acts as a single conductor, since the strands are all touching, being twisted tightly together in the bundle, and this single conductor effect pushes the majority of current flow to the outer surface areas of the bundle, just as with a solid wire. This cancels out the gains that could have otherwise been achieved by the additional surface area of the stranded wire, had each strand been insulated. You are right in thinking that you could achieve increased amperage capacity by inserting another insulated wire inside of the battery tube, and in fact that is how Kiker builds them, only it's a tube within a tube, not a wire. They use a 1/8" o.d. tube, with a thin layer of insulation, on the inside of the 1/4" tubing. It's only for the battery cables, though. With the spark wires it's high voltage, but amperage of less than 1 ampere, so nothing needed inside those tubes. You're right again, in thinking that the rf interference may prove troublesome to some people, but of course filters could be used to reduce or eliminate that effectively, such as were used before they came out with resistor wires and plugs. Yes, these tubes are weird stuff, and I'm sure Harvey Kiker himself probably isn't all that certain about all of the interactions that take place. He probably discovered this tube effect by chance, while out in the woods and needing to replace a HV spark wire on a chain saw that was causing the saw to start poorly and run badly. Looking in the back of his truck, at the bits and pieces of stuff strewn about, he probably saw a short length of 1/8 copper tubing with a few coils in it - perhaps something from a refrigerator, water distiller, dehumidifier, or whatever, and figured what the heck - let's give it a try. Stuff like that he wouldn't have thrown away at the dump, because copper is valuable. After seeing how remarkably well the coiled copper tubing worked, he naturally would have experimented with differing lengths of tubing, differing coil turns, and coil placements along the length of the tubing to see how this affected things. Often things are discovered in this way, mostly by chance, and born of the necessity of making do with what you have at hand.

I think I'll "meander" out to the back yard and cut some grass now.

TTYL,

Rick

[Tishatang]

Hi All

You can make controlled bends without kinking the tubing, if you first fill them with low melting point liquid metal. Let harden, and then bend. After the coil is formed, you plunge the coil into hot water and reclaim you liquid metal.

link here:

Low Melting Point Alloys

Chris

[Ozicell]

Home made set

I tried out my home made set today. Unfortunately I have to double insulate as they were all shorting! ugghh!!!

[blahblah]

Insulation between windings ?

Just to clarify .. is there supposed to be insulation between the turns of copper tubing...I noticed the home made ones for testing have so far used insulation between the tube windings..whereas the patent appears to show no insulation...does it make any difference ?


Cheers

Great thread guys !

[Ozicell]

Insulation

Just to clarify .. is there supposed to be insulation between the turns of copper tubing...I noticed the home made ones for testing have so far used insulation between the tube windings..whereas the patent appears to show no insulation...does it make any difference ?


Cheers

Great thread guys !

In one of the later patents, yes, I believe it's insulated. That's how I interpreted it and made them. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers
Jeff

[rickoff]

Spark tube insulation

That's right Oz,

The patent states that each spark tube should be "encapsulated in its entirety by an insulating layer," and that the coils are "formed along the length of the isolated copper tubing..."

Kiker uses a hot dip method to apply a coating of either plastic, polymeric, or polyurethane to the entire length of tubing for that purpose, before the counter-clockwise coil turns are formed on the spark tube.

After that, they wind the coils of the smaller (1/10 diameter of the tube) solid wire (as shown in patent 7,168,406 B2) around the insulated spark tube. Two coils of that wire are wound clockwise around the spark tube in windings of either 11 or 33 turns, which have proven most advantageous. These windings should be separated by some distance, as shown in figure 2 of the patent document, and are made from a single wire which extends to both ends of the spark tube, where they are electrically connected. This wire is also wound so as to be concentric with, and placed between the coils of, the spark tube, so that they are bound between the spark tube coils when the coils are compressed together and bound by the plastic tie, which is also shown in figure 2. Finally, the entire assembly is then given another hot-dip coating of insulation.

Since most of us don't have access to a hot dip coating method, I have suggested painting the coil area with a coating of Tool Dip. Or, you could paint or spray on a couple of coats of polyurethane. With either method, I would suggest winding the coils of the spark tube around the 1/2" mandrel so that they are separated by about a 1/4 inch spacing. This will allow the coil turns to be painted after they are formed, which will prevent stressing and tearing of the insulative layer that could occur if applied before coiling the tubing. If you plan to add the smaller solid wire coils to the assembly, you need to paint the entire length of spark tubing, and let it dry, before applying the solid wire, and then recoat the entire length of the assembly with adequate layers of insulation. If you don't elect to add the solid wire, you can simply coat the coil section and slip some non-conductive tubing over the remaining uncoated lengths of the spark tube. I wouldn't recommend installing non-conductive tubing over the entire spark tube before making the coils, as this would prevent the coil turns from being closely aligned, as engineered in the patent diagrams.

Incidentally, the most recent design, as illustrated in the patent number aforementioned, shows that the coil to distributor cable, and coil to battery connection, are both made by using the small gauge solid wire wound around non-conductive plastic tubing or strapping, which is then encapsulated in an insulative coating.

I hope this helps to clarify the insulation and construction issues for everyone.

Best regards, Rick

[rickoff]

Re: use of low melting point alloys in coiling tube

That's one possible way of preventing kinks, as Chris (Tishatang) points out. If you utilize that method, though, be aware that any alloy that will melt at the temperature of boiling water will contain lead, and most likely some cadmium. Both of these metals, and their vapors, present a dangerous health risk to the user, and present an environmental concern after being used for any purpose. If you do use this method, be certain that you do it outdoors to ensure adequate ventilation, and keep your face away from the vapors.

Here's another option when coiling a battery cable tube:

Starting with the straight, 1/4" copper tubing in a length of about 1 inch longer than the finished size, crimp one end with a pair of vise-grips, or in a vise, so that the tubing is almost, but not closed. Raise the other end a few inches above the crimped end and have an assistant pour water into the open, raised end until the tube is filled and water overflows at the open end. Pinch the water flow off at the lower crimped end by applying further pressure with the vise or vice grips, and then repeat this at the open end, being careful not to leave any air space inside the tube. You can then form the coil without kinks, and the water can be easily drained off afterwards by cutting off the crimped ends.

Happy coiling,

Rick

[FuzzyTomCat]

Bending Copper Tube

If you plug one end or crimp shut ( make sure to add extra length ), fill tube with fine "dry" silica sand pack tight plug or crimp end, bend as required ( still being careful ) remove plugs or cut of crimps, tap out sand, "finished".

(grandpa was a old school plumber)

Best Regards ,
Glen

[blahblah]

Great clarification Rick..somehow I missed it..thats skimming for u..and thx to you and 'Fuzzy' for some good tips on bending without getting kinky.

[Aaron]

battery coil

I rewound my battery coil in the "correct" direction so North is on the side of the coil touching the + on the battery. With driving I could tell no difference. Also, I mean no difference because wound the other way...just having that coil on my battery, DID allow the engine to run more smooth.

I also aimed the coil at the engine towards the intake and plugs.

The battery coil and plug coil wires are supposed to create a magnetic field that ionize the gas for better burning by creating a magnetic field.

5 turns with no core...I can only imagine a weak field but unless the effect is placebo, I really seem to have a smoother running engine.

Magnetic field as far as I see would work like the magnets, which I removed. Like charging the molecules so they repel away from each other so the fuel atomizes better. Is it as simple as that?

Here are a few pics:

[blahblah]

Aaaron

Nice work on that DIY testing Battery lead coil !!

..it looks pro made..

are you going to bother with trying to make the plug lead replacements as well ?