Ball Spark Plug

[Ozicell]

I see your point.... and now understand your "ball of mesh" attempt and
why you were going in that direction.
What you did and how you did it is awesome .... and it freakin worked!

Glad to see xbox here.... he and Capacitor70 have built a plasma circuit with
some real punch using regular plugs....

your "body piercing plug" idea (thank you! ) is definitely going to catch on and be replicated/integrated to more benchtop testing worldwide.

nice contribution Jeff.

Thanks,

I'll be happy if together we are able to break the chains and strangle hold that we all find ourselves in - we've been slaves too long! Finally, I think there is a real chance of this happening. Not wanting to be a pessimist here but I believe that soon everything is going to go bang, we will lose the net and any support that we can give each other will be gone. So the more working on it now - the better as far as I am concerned.



Cheers
Jeff

[Ozicell]

Lock tight

Thanx mate! Thats what i thought. Do you have any thoughts on a "thread lock" material that will last under those conditions?

There are high temp lok tight materials available. This has been one of my biggest concerns - the ball working loose. I am changing the cage so as to prevent it escaping into the cyclinder should it work lose. I also started with a longer electrode so even if it unscrews the gap won't allow it to come off all together and the worst that can happen is it shorts out.

[rosco1]

Semispheres

Krupa mentions "mushroomed" surfaces...
perhaps this setup would still allow a sphere dimension to the design,
but respect the practical tolerances restrained by piston/valves.

[ATTACH]878[/ATTACH]

I realise that the image you posted is not to spec, so I'll just add that the outside diameters of the semispheres could pose "shorting" problems, and this needs to be factored into the design.

I used a single semisphere in my replication attempts a few months back, and as my replication only took me a few minutes to make, I never paid enough attantion to what I was doing and as such never allowed for the outside diameter of the semisphere being positioned too close to the plug shell(base).

The plug still worked, but heavy shorting saw me discard that plug and adopt another with a longer protruding electrode. The images and a few videos of this are posted elsewhere, and I've linked to that site in other threads here, likely the "Firestorm" thread.
Different Concept plug with 2 earths.

I mentioned using "piercing" spheres quite a while back on a thread posted elsewhere(another forum), yet I opted not to head that way simply as the electrode would need to be turned down quite a way to allow for the very small threaded hole in the piercing ball to be effective. Then I reasoned that securing the ball would pose problems, simply due to the rapid heating and cooling of the plug itself.

While it can be reasoned that this approach will effect a suitable replication for bench testing purposes, it will never effect a successful replication where you intended to use these things in a day to day running engine.

The environment in which a spark plug resides is quite a violent place, and rapid expansion and contraction through all the heat variables makes for the need of a suitably robust unit.

I would be bold enough to say that a spark plug perhaps sees more changes(heat flex) at the molecular level than any other engine component, and as such, needs to be "flexible" enough to withstand these rigours. When careful thought is given to all the factors faced by a spark plug, with regard to heating and shrinking, you can begin to view the simple spark plug with more respect.

Jeff, yes, you can "cage" the sphere, and I'd urge you to do so, for if that sphere works loose, engine damage will result, unless you're lucky enough to have the sphere richochet out through the exhaust valve at just the right moment(highly unlikely).

Rather than "over engineer" your replication, I feel you're better off sticking with the basic design you've already got, yet with more earth provided by way of a "cage". Keep the gap open to 3mm though, regardless of modifications.

Earth is the key here, the more earth the better.

Regards,
Ross.

[Ozicell]

Ball and Cage

I realise that the image you posted is not to spec, so I'll just add that the outside diameters of the semispheres could pose "shorting" problems, and this needs to be factored into the design.

I used a single semisphere in my replication attempts a few months back, and as my replication only took me a few minutes to make, I never paid enough attantion to what I was doing and as such never allowed for the outside diameter of the semisphere being positioned too close to the plug shell(base).

The plug still worked, but heavy shorting saw me discard that plug and adopt another with a longer protruding electrode. The images and a few videos of this are posted elsewhere, and I've linked to that site in other threads here, likely the "Firestorm" thread.
Different Concept plug with 2 earths.

I mentioned using "piercing" spheres quite a while back on a thread posted elsewhere(another forum), yet I opted not to head that way simply as the electrode would need to be turned down quite a way to allow for the very small threaded hole in the piercing ball to be effective. Then I reasoned that securing the ball would pose problems, simply due to the rapid heating and cooling of the plug itself.

While it can be reasoned that this approach will effect a suitable replication for bench testing purposes, it will never effect a successful replication where you intended to use these things in a day to day running engine.

The environment in which a spark plug resides is quite a violent place, and rapid expansion and contraction through all the heat variables makes for the need of a suitably robust unit.

I would be bold enough to say that a spark plug perhaps sees more changes(heat flex) at the molecular level than any other engine component, and as such, needs to be "flexible" enough to withstand these rigours. When careful thought is given to all the factors faced by a spark plug, with regard to heating and shrinking, you can begin to view the simple spark plug with more respect.

Jeff, yes, you can "cage" the sphere, and I'd urge you to do so, for if that sphere works loose, engine damage will result, unless you're lucky enough to have the sphere richochet out through the exhaust valve at just the right moment(highly unlikely).

Rather than "over engineer" your replication, I feel you're better off sticking with the basic design you've already got, yet with more earth provided by way of a "cage". Keep the gap open to 3mm though, regardless of modifications.

Earth is the key here, the more earth the better.

Regards,
Ross.

Hi Rosco,

Your concerns and that of others has been my concern from the beginning. To reduce the possibility of the ball coming off, I have sourced plugs with a particularly long protruding electrode. Even with a 3 mm gap, if the ball should unscrew it could not come off inside the cage as the pole of the electrode is longer than the gap. Also, today I have started on an 8 arm cage, so, if by some outside chance it does come lose and then off, it still won't be able to escape the cage. Of course until I actually am running on them, I won't have the data necessary to know whether they will be durable enough to stand up or not. I can only hope

May I ask how far you got with your replication?

Cheers and thanks for your continued support and input.
Jeff

[rosco1]

Ozicell

May I ask how far you got with your replication?

Hi Jeff,

I made 2 different plugs, first off was the short electrode, and while it was shorting badly due to a too large in diameter semisphere, it did encourage me to try again. A few minutes later, stage 2 took shape.

I simply used another plug with a much longer electrode, and went at it again. I set about adding extra earths to see if they resulted in greater spark generation, which of course they did.

I shot video of the events on a running engine, yet at that time I never had a pressure testing bell. The tests at that time included air gap tests, with a Lectran Pulsar, an IKAT/ICAT and my home made adjustable "intensifier".

The tests yielded positive results in open air, with definate changes apparent in spark colour.

Beginning with the stark "blue" colour at the plug, and extending into the flecked "blue/magenta/white" ranges. This alone told me there was something very positive occurring, so I then went ahead and purchased a pressure testing bell.

I've been busy of late with other projects and family commitments, so I've not progressed much further. Email me Jeff.

[goldenequity]

tap and die?

Jeff... a little more info please?
Did you further drill out and tap the piercing ball hole to accommodate a stouter threaded electrode stud?
Or just turn down the electrode to the existing threaded hole dia on the ball?
Can you tell us the tap/die measurement that worked for you?
I like the cage idea..... can't let that little booger escape now can we?
Thanks ahead.

[dubsta]

ozzy, what size was the 316 ball?


mm or inches is fine.

thx

[Ozicell]

Ball & Die

Jeff... a little more info please?
Did you further drill out and tap the piercing ball hole to accommodate a stouter threaded electrode stud?
Or just turn down the electrode to the existing threaded hole dia on the ball?
Can you tell us the tap/die measurement that worked for you?
I like the cage idea..... can't let that little booger escape now can we?
Thanks ahead.

To answer two posts here, both yours and Dubsta's, the ball is a 5mm 316SS with a 2mm tapped hole. The electrode is just over 2mm so using the appropriate ball with correct size die and threading the electrode is all that is needed.

Cheers to you both
Jeff

[dubsta]

wow, 5mm is really small.

I was guessing much much larger,

according to this image here



I was thinking 5/16(8mm) to 3/8 (10mm) or more ++


Next thing, the wire for the cage is what thickness about?
I dont see how using a MIG to weld it would work either as it would create a messon the edge of the rim.

I have a jewler friend that I may need to consult to see how this can be mounted securely without making a huge mess with the plug I think.

[Ozicell]

Ball size and questions

wow, 5mm is really small.

I was guessing much much larger,

according to this image here



I was thinking 5/16(8mm) to 3/8 (10mm) or more ++


Next thing, the wire for the cage is what thickness about?
I dont see how using a MIG to weld it would work either as it would create a messon the edge of the rim.

I have a jewler friend that I may need to consult to see how this can be mounted securely without making a huge mess with the plug I think.

Hi Dubsta,

First of all you have to be aware that you have limited space in the cylinder head to accommodate the slightly longer and larger plug. As a matter of fact, even my design may not be able to fit all motors as it may be too large. I would recommend that anyone trying this first go through the motions of double checking that there is room or damage to the motor WILL likely occur!

The cage is water jet cut from 1.2mm 316SS sheet. It is mounted via holes drill in the jacket of the plug. So far I have only welded 1 and you are correct, it's messy and undesirable. so back at the drawing board I improved the mounting process which is a little hard to describe but i believe will be much better, I still need a die nut to clean the thread up afterwards and I haven't actually done one yet so it's untried. BTW, good luck finding a sparkplug die nut, they do exist but you'll have better luck with hens teeth!

Jeff

[Ozicell]

Latest prototype 8 arm

Hi Guys,

This is yet untested in the pressure chamber but seems to work ok in open air. For those asking about attaching the cage, you will see in these pics that on two prongs or arms actually enter the shoulder of the plug while he others float as it were! The hole drilled in the shoulder is 2mm to accommodate the 2mm wide prongs and penetrate approximately 5mm into the shoulder. The next step will be to carefully drill a 1mm hole through the thread body and into the inserted prong. This hole is then welded filling the hole and locking the prong in place. The thread is then cleaned using a spark plug thread die. All as yet untested but far cleaner and easier then my first attempt at cage plug joining. You'll also notice an extra hole right on the crown, some say with standard 'J' straps, that this enhances plug performance - I thought it couldn't hurt to add it! I hope the pics are self explanatory.
Cheers Jeff

[blahblah]

Hi OZ

The result looks good..do you MIG or TIG..thinking TIG might be easier.

I bet you cant wait to try this out.
I cant wait to see it in action.

[Ozicell]

Hi OZ

The result looks good..do you MIG or TIG..thinking TIG might be easier.

I bet you cant wait to try this out.
I cant wait to see it in action.

You got that right! BTW I am not the welder but I think it's TIG!

[michaelpaul]

Ozicell, that is excellent craftsmanship. Well done.
Mike

[goldenequity]

speechless

OMG... the TALENT that available to this forum and it's collaborations continues to ASTOUND me. We the people (of the world) are capable of ANYTHING we set our hearts and minds to DO. Beautiful job Ozie!!