Fuel Computer Modifications via ALDL

[Aaron]

In Robert Krupa's interview (link posted in ball spark plug thread), he talks about someone having a laptop hooked to the ALDL connection in the car and using software to dial in whatever air:fuel mixture he wanted. They got to 30:1 with the Plasma plugs and that is when the magic happened.

I want to know what I need in order to make my air fuel mixture 30:1 or leaner. Does anyone have expertise in the fuel computer modification field?

I found a lot on the internet and wrote a lot of companies selling computer software/cable systems for diagnosis and a few look like they might have something to dial in your own preferred settings.

I don't know what I don't know and I know that so what should I be asking or is anyone here interested in helping to search out the magic answer?

Inexpensive and easy would be great.

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/shop...oducts_id=2010
Sticky? Beginners Guide to Tuning - FSC Forum
ALDL Cables for GM - by AKM Electronics
ALDL

[Aaron]

ALDL fuel computer modification

I got a response from a company.

Yes we can in live time change the air:fuel ratio with a cable connected to a laptop with the right software.

This is the site that has the info...haven't looked through it yet but here it is:
DIY PROM - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

And here is where you can get the cables:
ALDL OBD1 OBD cable OBDI OBD2 engine codes

I want 30:1...but of course am not going to do that until I have the plasma ignition/hho booster/fuel additive/charged water injection/Kiker plug wires, etc... all at once. I'll sacrifice my test car for this.

[dubsta]

I have been trying to figure out the same thing.

On my VW I use a vagcom to interface with OB2, I know I can modify certain things from here but leaning out the car will require modifying the o2 voltage output.
Pretty much an EFIE

Problem is there is a maximum and I am thinking that 16 or 17:1 will be it.

After that you may need to look into to standalone to get up to 20 or 24 or even higher like krupa did at 30:1

Of course this all depends on the vehicle but I am pretty sure on any 96+ OBD2 vehicle you will encounter issues going over 17:1 or so.

Reason is the computer will always do its best to revert to Stoich 14.7:1 no matter what is going on.

[Aaron]

fuel computer

Hi Dubsta,

When you say stand alone, do you mean a totally isolated fuel computer custom from bottom up to do whatever you want with it?

Krupa said the person that programmed the software they used put 40:1 as a limit and it sounded like they just hooked it to an existing computer.

[dubsta]

they did do that but I dopnt know how rtealistic that is on any import car.
I am not sure about american but it may be possible, I personally doubt it tho and could be wrong.

Yes on the stand alone, 034EFI or megasquirt has kits that replace a factory ecu for a custom tune, turbo guys do this when they can't chip their cars or have trouble finding chips for custom turbo applications.
Going this route gives fuill control over every aspect of the fuel map.

I think a dyno is required at some point tho because they are aiming for 14.7:1 under heavy boost and required rpms. I am sure this wouldnt be your case hehe....

In my case, on a imported german car I am not seeing many options to raise my AFR that high without a setup like this. They range about 1K price range are not that hard to install so I have heard...

dont quote me on that

[fritz]

scan tool

the buick Grand National guys are all using "Power Logger"

GBodyParts.com Online

I don't think that it provides any adjustability, just a real time monitor

[ashtweth]

Aaron your brain is like a machine, man you just keep popping them out ill add that to the info for the 101 thread.

[Aaron]

chip programming

Hi Ash,

Lol! I just want a dummy proof way to go to any car and know that I can push a magic button and turn the mixture to 30:1. If that is what Robert Krupa said he did, that is what I want to do.

I know it is a little more complicated than that, but it evidently is doable and is something people are doing already.

My high school years were on an air force base in Japan. I was a racing freak and the speed shops off base were absolutely incredible. One thing they did for many years since the beginning of EFI's is that they always had offered the service of reprogramming the fuel computer...but of course to make it on the richer side for racing power. It was as easy to get this done as it is to go to a Schucks here in the states here and buy a quart of oil.

They had replacement chips available that popped into existing fuel computers and they also had plug in modules that replaced the stock computer.

There are probably some wizards here that can figure out a simple way to do it for just about any fuel computer.

Almost make me want to pop off my entire fuel injection and just put on a carburetor!

I bet fuel injected throttle bodies are probably much easier. They're practically a carburetor anyway.

[theremart]

RE: Computer controled fuel

Aaron,

I saw a video "Alcohol can be a gas" by David Blume in the video he talked how he had friend that modified his car so it would burn better with Alcohol. That might be a lead for someone who has done it.

The thread I started for Ethonol at your home, here ways back had adapters for each of the spark plugs that would fool the computer into burning correctly for alcohol....

It makes so much sense that one could control their car to make it do what they want it to do... I guess that is why the model T had a lever that allowed one to change the timing to burn either gasoline, or alcohol...

Mart

[theremart]

More info..

ECU - Electronic Control units..

In page 389-390 of the book "Alcohol can be a gas!", it has a picture of a window of the program that is used to do this...

In this it also states there are groups devoted to this topic where they share data on the best performance.

[goldenequity]

The Digital Fuel Adjuster

I need some input here.....
I think this is claiming to intercept and control the A/F ratios... across 128 different load points on the power curve... very cool.
not sure if it's using the ALDL....
Browser Warning

not sure why it is saying Browser Warning..... seems to load their homepage ok... dunno.

also... found this:
referenceing ECU's

piggyback flash programmable ECU device like the Tweecer or Emanage.

[goldenequity]

condensed and deleted; see above

[wpage]

Custom tunes are out there...However

Really interesting thread.

PCM for less and others have the off the shelve swap out modules for al a cart set ups. You trade your factory set up for what they sell and it works for your desired applications.

From what Aaron is suggesting here in order to take a modern vehicle and defeat the systems to get the ratio we are talking here would be virtually impossible.

To get these air fuel ratios you would have to be working with a vintage vehicle or really lighting up your control panel with alarms.

There are some interesting GM and other sites where enthusiates are playing with some of this to get performance results. It gets very hairy and if anyone gets anywhere with this kindly post results.

Thanks
W

[captainwho]

Ultra Lean A/F's info

Hi Aaron and all,

This is a subject that I've been trying to learn as much as I can about. I also heard James Robey's interview of Robert Krupa and also there was someone who is involved with wankel engine R&D (Scott Webber of Encompass Holdings, Inc.) who also mentioned ultra lean A/F's as being where it's at with hydrogen supplementation. He also called in anonymously to Coast to Coast AM when they did the water4gas interview (pretty sure it was him). Also I've found numerous SAE articles, and then there's the MIT plasmatron, etc etc... In case anyone needs more convincing:

Robert Krupa interview:
Internet Radio, Citizen Broadcasting, Social Media Podcasts - Blog Talk Radio

Scott Webber interview and website:
Internet Radio, Citizen Broadcasting, Social Media Podcasts - Blog Talk Radio
Encompass Holdings, Inc

SAE articles (I posted some here, see post in forum under: Documentation and FAQ's / "Post interesting Technical Papers Here"):
WATERFUEL FOR ALL Booster

MotorTrend Article "Technologue: Convert Your Car to Burn Hydrogen":
Convert Your Car to Burn Hydrogen... -Technologue - Motor Trend

Interesting pdf :
http://www.chechfi.ca/pdfs/hydrogen_injection.pdf

Leaner A/F Ratio and possibility of burning valves?:
Hydrogen-Boost.com - Brown's Gas Generators - Joe Cell, Supplemental Hydrogen Injection Water Car Run on WATER+Fuel. Save Gas=FREE ENERGY!</

[captainwho]

How to Control ECU for Ultra Lean A/F

See Patrick Kelley Document:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/D17.pdf

According to this info above it is not possible for the typical narrow band oxygen sensor to sense the A/F at anything much over 15 or 16:1. If you look at the lambda shape of the output curve you can see that even with an EFIE in use the sensor itself is non responsive at those A/F's, or at least the sensitivity is very poor (change in output voltage vs. change in A/F). If you can't sense it, the ECU can't control it - garbage in garbage out. This is true for closed loop operation only, of course. Some people's solution is to force the ECU to run in open loop (oxygen sensor's are not used) and then use signal alteration of MAF or MAP using a device like the "digital fuel adjuster". To monitor and tune this, you would have to have a wideband O2 sensor installed.

This does not even address the issue of the fact (or my opinion anyway) that the more hydrogen you add the less accurate the O2 sensors are due to the different exhaust chemistry that results. O2 sensors are really more responsive to partial pressure of unburned CO and H than partial pressure of O2. See SAE 9*2*0*2*8*9 (w/o *'s) here:
C-C_Wiki: More On Oxygen Sensors
I think that the O2 sensors really only work properly with hydrocarbon fuels and when you add supplemental HHO the reduction of CO and H relative to O2 in the exhaust is no longer the same relationship to stoich. A/F and is thus misinterpreted by ECU as overlean condition and LTFT and STFT are increased leading to longer injector pulsewidths and wasted fuel. It's not that there is really more O2 in the exhaust as everyone says.

I think the method of using a piggyback flash programmable device that attaches to the ECU, such as the Tweecer or Emanage (I'm sure there must be others) must be the ultimate way to go, but I'm sure this is more technical and expensive way too. I have just begun to research these and only know a little about them so far. The Tweecer reads the ECU's stock program. You can do modifications of this at your desktop or laptop and on your dashboard you have a 4 position switch. Position 1 is the stock ECU program and 2-4 are your modified programs. Nothing is changed in the actual ECU's and I like that. The Tweecer electronics hardware attaches to the existing ECU. I think it is only for Ford computers though.

Some wideband O2 sensors are programmable and can simulate a narrowband O2 sensor output as mentioned in D17.pdf. This should allow you to still operate closed loop and the ECU will think it is maintaining 14.7:1, when it is really 28:1 (for example). He mentions this one specifically:
LC-1 Lambda Cable with 02 Sensor : Wideband Controller Cable for Dyno, ECU, Data Acquisition, or Gauge Applications

and then there is this:
LM-1 Wideband O2 Digital Air/ Fuel Ratio Meter | Lambda Sensor Controller

Oh well, I went on long enough. We need to research this further