Unconventional Battery Charging Method

[gmeat]

Hi Gmeat,

Ooh ... too bad about the halogen. Fortunately they're easily replaceable.

I was thinking about your setup and have an IDEA!
Okay, so you need something to draw current to get this all working.
How about you stick a SSG(mod your fan into an ssg fan) in there to draw power instead of the halogen bulb?!
By doing so your SSG will draw power and have the ability by design to dump its flyback charge into another battery.
I reckon doing this will allow you to charge a forth battery or even one of the existing batteries in your circuit.

What do you think?

Hi CitizenDC,


In my 1st post I was asking someone to try that out.I was thinking that we might be able to have the return off the collector come directly into the#2 battery position being its already charging up.I would have tried this alredy but between me blowing about what seems like my 50th transisitor in my SSG,And my soldering iron crapping out on me it will have to wait for the weekend.I was also thinking that maybe it might be better to leave the #3 battery being left at a very low voltage and basically just left there to complete the circuit this way I only have 2 batteries to flip in and out of the #1 position and the #2 position. thx for your thoughts


-Gary

[gmeat]

I tried that method before though at the time didn't see any improvement in performance.

[ATTACH]1060[/ATTACH]

the problem is even though you are supplying 24v to the system, the coil only sees 12v of it as the rest is blocked by the charging battery.

Another thing to think about is when you put two batteries in series their total capacitance halves. for example, if you put battery 1 and 2 in series you will get a 12v 8.5amp hour battery from 2 x 12v 17ah batteries. So on some of these set ups you have to decide whether it is worth sacrificing half your capacitance for the extra voltage.

though this is an interesting experiment that relates to the capacitor experiment I showed in the "conservation of charge violated" thread.

when you connect two batteries in parellel (one charged and one discharged) the voltages will equalize as current flows from the charged battery to the uncharged. However, HALF your energy disappears. This is apparently due to heat being disipitated from the circuit. I know this isn't exactly how your set up is, but I'm getting to that!

The interesting thing is half the energy is lost no matter what value resistor you place between the batteries. That means you can put a load between them, like a halogen bulb, and the voltages will equalize to exactly the same level as they would without the load on the circuit.

Hi Sephiroth,


I just want to clarify that at no point in the circuit that I show,There is no reading that meters at 24 volts.I just want you to realize that.This is basically the Tesla switch circuit except that I have the load between a different part of the circuit.I enjoyed reading your conservation of charge violated thread.thx for the input .


-Gary

[CitizenDC]

Hi Sepiroth,

>> I tried that method before though at the time didn't see any improvement >> in performance.

Interesting design. The battery order Gmeat is using is not in series.
Take another look.



When I tested this setup yesterday, at first I thought this shouldnt actually work. After studying the layout, it made sense.

I conducted a simple test yesterday on 3 disposable 9v batteries powering led(s).

Here are the results.

Battery 1 - B1 started with 10.05 Volts (new)
Battery 2 - B2 I discharged the day before and had 4.68 Volts(used)
Battery 3 - B3 started with 10.21 Volts (new)

Connected for 2 minutes burning three 12v 5mm standard white led's.

B1          B2          B3
9.25       10.25      9.27

Disconnected for 1 minute rest

B1          B2          B3
9.66       8.41       9.69

Note: During the one minute rest B2 was still reading 10+ volts then all of suddenly dropped to 8-9 volts. There was no gradual decline.

Left disconnected for another 5 minutes rest

B1          B2          B3
9.80       7.76       9.82

The total is 27.38v compared to the 24.94v we started with.
Interesting results considering the batteries are not recharchables.
I will run this test a second time tomorrow after discharging the B2 battery again.

cheers

[patmac]

Yeah your results are seemed like mine, with batt rechargeable, a little better because batt charging try keep totally charged, when you make many many changes putting more discharged like charge batt, you'll see that time to change is every time shorter (in my case at least), is some strange, but battery never go to discharged totally, and that is very good, because is possible charger them again very fast.

[Sephiroth]

Hi Sepiroth,

>> I tried that method before though at the time didn't see any improvement >> in performance.

Interesting design. The battery order Gmeat is using is not in series.
Take another look.



When I tested this setup yesterday, at first I thought this shouldnt actually work. After studying the layout, it made sense.

I conducted a simple test yesterday on 3 disposable 9v batteries powering led(s).

Here are the results.

Battery 1 - B1 started with 10.05 Volts (new)
Battery 2 - B2 I discharged the day before and had 4.68 Volts(used)
Battery 3 - B3 started with 10.21 Volts (new)

Connected for 2 minutes burning three 12v 5mm standard white led's.

B1          B2          B3
9.25       10.25      9.27

Disconnected for 1 minute rest

B1          B2          B3
9.66       8.41       9.69

Note: During the one minute rest B2 was still reading 10+ volts then all of suddenly dropped to 8-9 volts. There was no gradual decline.

Left disconnected for another 5 minutes rest

B1          B2          B3
9.80       7.76       9.82

The total is 27.38v compared to the 24.94v we started with.
Interesting results considering the batteries are not recharchables.
I will run this test a second time tomorrow after discharging the B2 battery again.

cheers

At work so not much time to reply but battery 1 and 3 in the diagram you have drawn are in series.

[CitizenDC]

At work so not much time to reply but battery 1 and 3 in the diagram you have drawn are in series.

Hi Sephiroth,

: ) they sure are. Its not your traditional series though due to the centre battery being in a parallel to B1 and B3..

In this configuration B2 always gets charged due to B1 and B3 creating a higher potential for current flow.


Hi Patmac,
>> is some strange, but battery never go to discharged totally,
>> and that is very good, because is possible charger them again very fast.

I agree, this is worth investigating further.


Hi Gmeat,

>> I was thinking that we might be able to have the return off the collector >>come directly into the#2
Good idea. B2 acts like a collector which is semi isolated from the bedini circuit. Man this is worth attempting.

>>I would have tried this alredy but between me blowing about what seems
>>like my
Mmm. I've only one npn left and its dedicated to the imo oscillilator.
I'm picking up my transistor order on friday so like you I will will have to wait till the weekend ... or maybe Seph or Patmac can attempt this for us?

>> In my 1st post I was asking someone to try that out.
Aaah, I must have missed that!

>> I was also thinking that maybe it might be better to leave the #3 battery >> being left at a very low voltage and basically just left there to complete >> the circuit this way I only.

I've come to the same conclusion there. I dont know how low it will go but I think its just sitting there helping the current move passed battery 2.
I think it can work with battery 1 or battery 2. Not so sure about battery 3.

cheers

[patmac]

Yeah yeah yeah, nice setup I woult like try it,

Ok. Are you saying me to try that circuit by using a transistor NPN to create pulses?

I can buid it, but give me the schematics. Or block diagram, I can design and calculate the circuit. Don't worry.

[CitizenDC]

Yeah yeah yeah, nice setup I woult like try it,

Ok. Are you saying me to try that circuit by using a transistor NPN to create pulses?

I can buid it, but give me the schematics. Or block diagram, I can design and calculate the circuit. Don't worry.

Hi Patmac,

I wont have time for a schematic tonight. Maybe this quick explanation will give you the idea for schematic.

1. All you need is your standard Imhotep bedini fan + circuit.
2. For input power use Gmeat's battery configuration that you have been testing on your 9v recharchables.
3. Wire the ssg fan output wires to battery 2.
4. Let this run and see what happens.

This way you attempt to draw power from batteries 1 & 3 and charge battery 2 via ssg at the same time.

Let me know if you need more info?

Thanks!

[patmac]

ahhh ok... no problem... you will not believeme , my Bedini Fan works with PNP transistors, because I had no NPN but works well

[patmac]

Well is some problematic, SSG fan don't run on 9 volts, for me at least.

[Burned_NE2]

Hi Patmac,

I wont have time for a schematic tonight. Maybe this quick explanation will give you the idea for schematic.

1. All you need is your standard Imhotep bedini fan + circuit.
2. For input power use Gmeat's battery configuration that you have been testing on your 9v recharchables.
3. Wire the ssg fan output wires to battery 2.
4. Let this run and see what happens.

This way you attempt to draw power from batteries 1 & 3 and charge battery 2 via ssg at the same time.

Let me know if you need more info?

Thanks!

CitizenDC

Been messing around with this circuit for a bit (Thanks Gmeat!).

But you got me!

Tried looking at hooking the bedini output to the #2 battery using Gmeat's hookup and I end up with a dead short with 3 batteries! Looking forward to your schematic

Regards,
Paul

[Burned_NE2]

CitizenDC

Never mind the last post, think I see what you're getting at. Tried it but my #2 battery was an old and week so swapped it with another dead but more potential (as in possible comeback battery) and it seems to be working fine.

I'm driving an ssg type wheel but all the components are within ambient temperature except the coil which is only 1 degree C above the rest.

I'll still wait and see what the results are Voltage/capacity running temperature wise on the batteries again tomorrow before comparing to your circuit but so far it's running fine

Regards,
Paul

[CitizenDC]

Hi Patmac,

>> Well is some problematic, SSG fan don't run on 9 volts, for me at least.
Mmm, 9v batteries can supply only little amperage. Thanks for trying!

>> ahhh ok... no problem... you will not believeme , my Bedini Fan works with PNP
>> transistors, because I had no NPN but works well
Cool. Did you wire it up the same way you would an NPN in your circuit?


Hi Burned_NE2

>> and it seems to be working fine.
Great, you have it running.


>> I'll still wait and see what the results are Voltage/capacity running temperature
>> wise on the batteries again tomorrow before comparing to your circuit but so >> far it's running fine

Okay, the circuit is a standard bedini type, the only difference is the charging battery is connected center parallel to two supply/input batteries.

Here is the idea.


Thanks!

[patmac]

Yeah 9 volts batt don't work with Bedini FAN.

BEDINI SG PC FAN USING PNP TRANSISTOR TIP32C
Bedini FAN works very well with high voltage but low current, is near to be impossible make it work with 9 volts batts.

My normal Bedini may work with these batts, but yesterday I was charging them for start the test when one batts get damaged, reads 0 volts. So I think go to buy a new batt alkaline to make the test.

Yeah the Bedini FAN is wired the same way but inverting current look the pic

PIC CORRECTED COLECTOR-EMITER INVERTED.

EXCUSE ME

[Sephiroth]

Bedini FAN works very well with high voltage but low current, is near to be impossible make it work with 9 volts batts.

My normal Bedini may work with these batts, but yesterday I was charging them for start the test when one batts get damaged, reads 0 volts. So I think go to buy a new batt alkaline to make the test.

Yeah the Bedini FAN is wired the same way but inverting current look the pic

Are you sure that schematic is correct? It doesn't look like ANY current can flow through it!