Batteries Types

[patmac]

I was reading on internet about batteries I've learned this:

Lead Acid: There is three types basically, car batteries lead acid, lead acid deep cycle, and gel.

Car battery: gives powerfull high amp, for short time, but if discharges lower than 11.9 volts plates can be sulfated so much, and loss total capacity on recharge.

Depp Cycle: batteries, for ups, golf car etc, are batteries can be discharged to 10.2 volts for example, theirs plates are more width and support for long time this high dischargers and recharger cycles.

Gel Acid: are good for home, no leak acid and no gas and relatively good deep cycle.


NiCad: this batteries are LOW RESISTENCE INTERNAL and my question is this; are good for tesla switch application?. When is getting bad, recharge fast but discharge very fast, called memory effect. CADMIUM is toxic.

NiMH: better than NiCad, and more ampH per size, suffering less memory effect but less charging efficiency.

LiION: very good, but high cost, 100% efficiency for in recharge.

INTERNAL RESISTANCE IS LIKE BEDINI CALL MATCHING IMPENDANCE ON LOAD? LOW INTERNAL RESISTENCE ON BATTERY DISCHARGED COULD BE FUNDAMENTAL FOR TESLA SWITCH

[theremart]

Notes from the Bedini files...

Regular 6v deep-cycle golf-cart batteries are what everyone should
use. This is pretty much what the wind/solar sites say in the first
place, and they're correct.

With RV/marine batteries, you might think you're getting a 100ah
battery. But, they turn out to be abou 35ah, at best. And you can only
efficiently draw about 1.4amps steadily from one of them. That will
give you 20hrs of run-time at that amperage. Usable, yes. But, it's
lots of physical bulk for such a small amount of storage.

For comparison:
If you have SEVEN RV/marine deep-cycles in parallel, you can draw
about 150 watts for 20 hours without heating or hurting them.
On the other hand, just TWO 6v golf-cart batteries gives you a
genuine 230ah at 12v. You can get the same 150 watts for 20 hours from
JUST those two batteries, without hurting them.

At the very least, everyone should build a battery bank and get a
charger to keep it topped off. THEN start testing charinging.

[patmac]

theremart helpfull info.

I'm testing with a little motorcycle batt 4amp rated 12 volts brand new. Run Bedini SG for 40 hours aprox, and volt meters reads 10.8 volts, that was very low, maybe suffer and his life is shorter now, I'm charging it, on 20 hours reads 12.4 volts now, I don't know the difference between deep cycle and normal battery for starting on motorcycle and cars. For second cycle i'm going to discharge it to 12.4 volts max. I'll see if COP is better.

[dambit]

I've been doing most of my testing with small gel cells and a couple of larger batteries. One car battery, 440CCA, and the other is a 130Ah deep cycle.

I have found that the larger the Ah rating of the battery the more circuits I need on my charger to get an efficient charge. That is until they start to become conditioned, then I can use a small charger (less circuits) but the rate of charge slows. Both of the larger batteries respond very well to my 8 circuit charger, but barely responded to it when it was only 4 circuits. My Grandad borrowed it last week to see what could be done with some of his batteries. He was going to replace his Ute (El Camino for the yanks in the audience ) starter battery but after only three overnight cycles on the charger it worked again. So based on his and my experience with this technology, the more circuits you have the greater the response will be, from the battery.

I have found a place here in Oz that supplies ex telecom batteries, 2V 5000 Ah for $110. According to the supplier they are in reasonable condition as they are only replaced because of safety codes and not because they are dead. I am planning on getting one out of curiosity to see what I can do with it.

To quote a famous line "I think I'll need a bigger boat!"

[theremart]

I've been doing most of my testing with small gel cells and a couple of larger batteries. One car battery, 440CCA, and the other is a 130Ah deep cycle.

I have found that the larger the Ah rating of the battery the more circuits I need on my charger to get an efficient charge. That is until they start to become conditioned, then I can use a small charger (less circuits) but the rate of charge slows. Both of the larger batteries respond very well to my 8 circuit charger, but barely responded to it when it was only 4 circuits. My Grandad borrowed it last week to see what could be done with some of his batteries. He was going to replace his Ute (El Camino for the yanks in the audience ) starter battery but after only three overnight cycles on the charger it worked again. So based on his and my experience with this technology, the more circuits you have the greater the response will be, from the battery.

I have found a place here in Oz that supplies ex telecom batteries, 2V 5000 Ah for $110. According to the supplier they are in reasonable condition as they are only replaced because of safety codes and not because they are dead. I am planning on getting one out of curiosity to see what I can do with it.

To quote a famous line "I think I'll need a bigger boat!"

Hi,

May I ask what circuit you are using on your 8 one? Also how many amps?

Thanks!

mart

[dambit]

Hi Mart,

I have attached the circuit to this message. I use a single trigger winding and the rest are slaves. I have used 180ohm base resistors instead of the 470ohm resistors in the schematic. Other than that the rest is the same. I replaced the pot with fixed resitors once it was tuned. Also it is tuned to run on a 24V input. The out put can be 12 or 24, I have not tried higher. I did away with the lamp on the trigger part of the circuit as I don't know what voltage it should be. I don't need it anyway as I use the scope to tune it.

I'll post a pic too. It draws approximately 1.25 amps. Not much really.

Cheers,

Steve.

P.S. The bottom coil runs off it's own trigger as it is out of line with the magnets when the top coils are firing. So i had to tune that separately, but its the same set up as the top two.

[theremart]

RE: setup

Hi Mart,

I have attached the circuit to this message. I use a single trigger winding and the rest are slaves. I have used 180ohm base resistors instead of the 470ohm resistors in the schematic. Other than that the rest is the same. I replaced the pot with fixed resitors once it was tuned. Also it is tuned to run on a 24V input. The out put can be 12 or 24, I have not tried higher. I did away with the lamp on the trigger part of the circuit as I don't know what voltage it should be. I don't need it anyway as I use the scope to tune it.

I'll post a pic too. It draws approximately 1.25 amps. Not much really.

Cheers,

Steve.

P.S. The bottom coil runs off it's own trigger as it is out of line with the magnets when the top coils are firing. So i had to tune that separately, but its the same set up as the top two.

Very nice, I have the same setup except not as neat and tidy

Do you have scope shots of the transistors what they look like? I have been wrestling trying to get this thing tuned, but have put it on the back burner since I have been working on the Solid State Bedini. Now that that is operational I had to go back and work on it, I had 6 transistors on mine and blew out a couple because I put over 3 amps to it. ( too much for that few transistors ) I have run it from 12 - 38 V and works nice except one of my coils seems to heat up, ( they are not exactly the same ohms, and... I have spliced together some of the coils, because I had tried several other experiments.

Thanks for sharing! Nice to have someone to talk to who has much the same setup.

Mart

[patmac]

That is very nice....

In some post (I can not remember where) Aaron gave a opinion about use higher voltage, high voltage is less current and less current is less hot but less hot is more efficiency.... But hey: why less current is less hot if hot are watts?

Now, to think: why electric grid distribution is HIGH VOLTAGE?

you can see the aluminium cable (grid) is relativaly thin if you compare main cable distribution box on your home. High voltage definitively is more efficient. The problem here is how reconvert the Bedini Motor to use a 120 Volts DC for example?

One way could be using DARLINGTON setup, but DARLINGTON can give poor switching. Or well try to use the same 2N3055 to reconvert the signal to MOSFETS driver to control the power coil.

[dambit]

Thanks,

I have various scope shots, but none of this particular setup. When I get it back I'll take some and post them. My grandad just told me he'll be keeping it for a little while. He apparently found a bigger battery to test out, 190Ah or somthing. Should be a good "real world" test.

In the meantime, Im putting together a 20 circuit version. This will allow me to test out larger capacity batteries and not just small gell cells or car bats.

Cheers,

Steve.

[jibbguy]

Marine Deep Cycles

I was surprised to hear the the ratings are so badly off on marine deep cycles! I have extensive experience with "living off DC" on the water for many years and have not found that yet. In fact since i moved down to the FL Keys here i have had a small side business doing consulting and systems integration for "live-aboards"; designing and installing systems to meet all their energy needs. The deep-cycles i have bought or spec'ed in the past were at least close to their ratings, or i prolly would have heard about it lol since i calculate amp-hours pretty closely, especially for solar and wind -based systems. I would be very interested in seeing any info pertaining to deep cycles not meeting rating, so i and my Customers can stay away from those brands!

I wonder if the ones with the lower-than-rated A/H's were gel cells. They have drawbacks, are more expensive, and i don't recommend them for Customers unless they are going trans-Atlantic or something (their only superior features imo are they can operate even upside down and are less prone to gassing).

Also, i do know that deep cycles benefit greatly from a "soaking" charge at low amperage for a while, alternated with a higher amp charge (this is using traditional non-pulsing chargers, anyway). Without the "soak" for a few hours, they usually won't charge-up all the way.

One thing i have noticed is, that anytime you see "Marine" in the title the price doubles

A much cheaper way to go without any noticeable differences is to buy deep-cycle fishing "Trolling Motor" 12V batteries (from places like K-Mart or Sears... DON'T buy anything from Wal-Mart they are working to destroy our country! But that's a whole nuther rant lol) These trolling batts have similar specs as the expensive marine ones but are about half the cost as what "West Marine" or "Boater's World" sells them for. They also generally have a higher continuous amp output than other deep-cycles, and are really more of a hybrid between them and cranking batts; but still retain most of the high Amp/Hour capacity.

BTW West Marine's main catalog is great for learning information on DC systems, they do have some very comprehensive explanations and articles about things like batteries, inverters, chargers, solar cells, gasoline or Diesel gen-sets, wind turbines, multiple battery switches, microprocessor-based energy control centers, high-current marine alternators, kits to run refrigerators from engine belt PTO's (and dual-power operation AC/DC motors for converting air conditioners or freezers), trolling motors with new ultra-efficient DC motors (there are some very cool German ones, coming from Free Energy research, but costing like $2 grand), panel current and charge meters, fuse panels, etc.

At the prices West Marine charges they can afford to have a nice catalog, lol. Get the info from there first, then buy from somewhere else a lot cheaper

[dambit]

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but here goes.

For the past few weeks my Grandad has been using my 8 circuit charger to rejouvinate his RV battery banks. All is going well, but he has told me that his hydrometer tester(s) no longer get any readings from the electrolyte. He assures me that it is not the hydrometers as he has used a few to make sure. The batteries are fully charged and work fine, but no specific gravity reading.

I find this odd so I am putting the question out there.

Has anyone elso had this happen with their batteries, and, is this perhaps one of the changes that happen to a battery that is charged with radiant energy?

Cheers,

Steve.

P.S. The batteries are all the same make and rating. 4 batteries, 12V, 130Ah. Linked in series pairs to make 24V then parralled to 260Ah.

[theremart]

Re: no reading..

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but here goes.

For the past few weeks my Grandad has been using my 8 circuit charger to rejouvinate his RV battery banks. All is going well, but he has told me that his hydrometer tester(s) no longer get any readings from the electrolyte. He assures me that it is not the hydrometers as he has used a few to make sure. The batteries are fully charged and work fine, but no specific gravity reading.

P.S. The batteries are all the same make and rating. 4 batteries, 12V, 130Ah. Linked in series pairs to make 24V then parralled to 260Ah.

My Golf Cart batteries still give me a Specific Gravity reading after I have been charging them for months. I would try another meter.

[dambit]

Hi Mart,

Yeah, I asked him to check that and said that he has used several hydrometers and still nothing. All of his other batteries give readings except these.

He doesn't realy care because the batetries work fine, but he (and I) are just curious as to what may be causing it.

Cheers.

[shellback]

Batteries

Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery
THis is very interesting I have not tried any of it yet, can not wait to try