accurately measuring a meyers replication.

[hhoexclusive]

i think i have my setup going pretty well. my question is at what points in the circuit should i take my measurements to calculate efficiency. at this stage i'm measuring at the power supply that feeds the pulsed high voltage alternator. the whole system only draws 0.69 amps @19 volts and spits out well over 1 lpm i have a flow gauge that is reading but due to all the extra wires i now have running into the cell unit it has a few air leaks, so 1 lpm is only a low estimate to avoid making myself look silly when i fix the leaks and get a true reading. i'm not going to post to many details of my setup for now just because i want to run it thru its paces and see if anything fries (so you guys dont have to risk your expensive equipment) its getting exciting i'll tell ya when i first flipped the switch on it the roar from the cell gave me a fright it sounds like a jug boiling and after 3 minutes of running it had thrown a large amount of water out of the cell itself onto my bench as i didn't have my cap on the cell. the alternator spins at 7000rpm off a 3\4 hp ac motor which i figure to be highway cruising speed on a engine. do i need to take into account how much load the ac motor is under or is that not relevant? it barely seems to slow down at all when i switch on my alternator. i've calculated the efficiency with the 19 volts 0.69 amps 1 lpm at 1142.48% so either i have it going real well or my measurements need some adjustment. its taken a while to get this far but the buzz of it all working has been worth it. oh those figures are with straight tap water.

[itzon]

I wouldn't think the efficiency calculation would be correct if you didn't add in the power that the AC motor is drawing.

Add this in and you should have a better idea of total efficiency.

Itzon

[professor]

Sounds real good

I don't know where the 19VDC comes into play is that the excitation voltage pulsed or otherwise for the alternator? Of course you have to add all the Wattages including that of the AC motor together,but I am sure you are aware of that.
Like to know more details like are you using a bifiliar coil,Plates or Tubes?
Distilled or KOH?
I would be happy to achieve even one half of meyers efficiency,it would be nice if you could share your findings with us,it may save me and others to go off on a wild goose chase.(Mechanical Resonance etc.).
I would put a clamp on ammeter on one of your 3/4 horse motor(single Phase) If you could get hold of an AC Motorspeed controller you could
vary the RPM by retaining the volts to Hertz ratio, saving your motor from heating up. The Reason I am saying that is that you may want to match the rotor frequency with that of the pulsed winding, but I know to little about your set up that I even shouldn't suggest that.
Keep up the Good Work! Good Luck anyway.
Professor

i think i have my setup going pretty well. my question is at what points in the circuit should i take my measurements to calculate efficiency. at this stage i'm measuring at the power supply that feeds the pulsed high voltage alternator. the whole system only draws 0.69 amps @19 volts and spits out well over 1 lpm i have a flow gauge that is reading but due to all the extra wires i now have running into the cell unit it has a few air leaks, so 1 lpm is only a low estimate to avoid making myself look silly when i fix the leaks and get a true reading. i'm not going to post to many details of my setup for now just because i want to run it thru its paces and see if anything fries (so you guys dont have to risk your expensive equipment) its getting exciting i'll tell ya when i first flipped the switch on it the roar from the cell gave me a fright it sounds like a jug boiling and after 3 minutes of running it had thrown a large amount of water out of the cell itself onto my bench as i didn't have my cap on the cell. the alternator spins at 7000rpm off a 3\4 hp ac motor which i figure to be highway cruising speed on a engine. do i need to take into account how much load the ac motor is under or is that not relevant? it barely seems to slow down at all when i switch on my alternator. i've calculated the efficiency with the 19 volts 0.69 amps 1 lpm at 1142.48% so either i have it going real well or my measurements need some adjustment. its taken a while to get this far but the buzz of it all working has been worth it. oh those figures are with straight tap water.

[hhoexclusive]

i'm running tubes the alternator is pulsed by a replication of meyers circuit. the 19 volts is from a laptop charger i used it because it has a very stable voltage and will switch itself off once load hits 6 amps, the setup is actually very basic only complicated thing is the pwm. no biffilar chokes as of yet its early days and i'm learning as i go basically so it can take a little while to work through things. i'm very happy with my results this far. the whole thing seems to function or not function at all without the blocking diodes very important it seems. cell voltage starts at around 20volts and climbs very quickly (measuring the inputs to the tubes) will grab a clamp meter early next week is also booked in to a lab to check the waveform and get cell all sealed up for flow readings. i'm going to be busy!

[hhoexclusive]

just run it all up again today and notice i had 1 3rd of my tubes not working and rather bad burning smell on closer inspection i had fried the 1n4005 diode that is inline from the alternator to the cell. the diodes were leftover from when i gutted the alternator so wasn't expecting to much from them. another thing i need to add to the shopping list this week. as well as weld the mount on the side of my engine, as soon as it runs well on the bench without anything getting hot its all going back into the car. i had it setup as brute force setup but ultimately that was a bit disappointing (eg) my hid headlights would switch off after 10 minutes due to the huge strain on the charging system.

[aperry0501]

sweet!!!!!!!!!

If I may ask what size of alternator did you use and how did you modify it?
I am also working on a similar setup I took out the old windings off of an motor craft alt and rewraped them with 20 turns instead of 5. I used a 26 awg wire size instead of the factory 18 gage wire. I should have some testing of the setup in a few days. Did you pulse the stator windings or the field windings? Thanks and goo luck!

[professor]

are you sure its a 1N4005?

A 1N4005 is a very small general purpose Diode handling only 1 Amp at 600 volt I doubt that these Diodes where or even could be used in an Alternator .
Usually they are like 1N3493 and are press fit physically about 20 times larger.
Unless you are taking about a diode that you used to put in line with the Cell.
If so try a 1n3913 or others that are stud mounted and can be heat sinked
I am enclosing a jpg showing different varieties, this may help you making your selection the smallest one is the 1N4005 Diode.

just run it all up again today and notice i had 1 3rd of my tubes not working and rather bad burning smell on closer inspection i had fried the 1n4005 diode that is inline from the alternator to the cell. the diodes were leftover from when i gutted the alternator so wasn't expecting to much from them. another thing i need to add to the shopping list this week. as well as weld the mount on the side of my engine, as soon as it runs well on the bench without anything getting hot its all going back into the car. i had it setup as brute force setup but ultimately that was a bit disappointing (eg) my hid headlights would switch off after 10 minutes due to the huge strain on the charging system.

[hhoexclusive]

yup 1n4005. the alternator is a lucas 17acr factory fit on practically any 1970's British car it was not working hence i used it turned out to be perfect was real easy to modify all i did was remove the stator and ditched the regulator. the stater was then treated to a clean up and each of the phases had a wire soldered to them heat shrunk and reassembled. the rotor is where i input the pulsed signal. i have the same alternator on my car now and with the cell rigged as a brute force pulling 20 amps it cant keep up charge. my plan is to just hang the modified one under the existing alternator if it needs to be rewound i'll do that later for now it makes my cell absolutely cook so i think i'm onto a good start. professor? could you suggest a diode to suit you seem to be a bit more knowledgeable on this then me.

[professor]

Try a 1N3913

All depends on the physical space that you have and if you can, need and want to heat sink this Diode which I always recommend.
I always go for bigger just in case that you need it at a later point and it won't do any harm if you use it with lower current.
As I mentioned a 1N3913 is fairly fast and handles up to 30 amps at 400 volts. If you can not get that Diode there are hundred of others that can be used. it is the 5th one on the upper row in my jpg, just to give you an idea what it looks like.As with all stud Diodes the Case (Stud) has to be isolated
if you mount it on a Heatsink usually the thermal Mica or now Teflon Washers come supplied with the Diode but not always so specify and get an extra washer if they are Mica as they are brittle and easy to Damage.
If you have no Heatsink Compound which you also need you can use 4X silicone grease if you get the Teflon type you can get away without the grease although I still use it sparingly.
Hope I have not confused you. Glad to help
Professor

yup 1n4005. the alternator is a lucas 17acr factory fit on practically any 1970's British car it was not working hence i used it turned out to be perfect was real easy to modify all i did was remove the stator and ditched the regulator. the stater was then treated to a clean up and each of the phases had a wire soldered to them heat shrunk and reassembled. the rotor is where i input the pulsed signal. i have the same alternator on my car now and with the cell rigged as a brute force pulling 20 amps it cant keep up charge. my plan is to just hang the modified one under the existing alternator if it needs to be rewound i'll do that later for now it makes my cell absolutely cook so i think i'm onto a good start. professor? could you suggest a diode to suit you seem to be a bit more knowledgeable on this then me.

[hhoexclusive]

that would do the job but is physically well big. i'm hoping to integrate everything into the vacant space inside the alternator left from its old regulator. i want to squeeze in the pwm and the diodes so space is at a premium. i'll do some more readings and see what can be substituted. oh and read the bible (jaycar catalogue) for ideas.

[hhoexclusive]

just reading my last posts forgot something quite critical there is a diode for each phase as i use each phase individually not combined. going through meyers patents this appeared to be how he had his setup so that what i went with. funny how one small thing can affect the system without the diodes there is no activity in the cell. i tried just to be sure

[professor]

AC Wont work

Yes you need Dc AC wont work even if you used 2000 Volts or greater.

QUOTE=hhoexclusive;29247]just reading my last posts forgot something quite critical there is a diode for each phase as i use each phase individually not combined. going through meyers patents this appeared to be how he had his setup so that what i went with. funny how one small thing can affect the system without the diodes there is no activity in the cell. i tried just to be sure[/QUOTE]

[hhoexclusive]

taking whole setup to lab tomorrow to get tested with a oscilloscope and make sure the pwm is working properly it did play up on me recently. so will also get some proper lpm readings as well if i have time to fix the leaks. might run some higher voltages through it too while i have access to a variac . hopefully it doesnt all turn to custard or smoke again

[hhoexclusive]

after some decent testing with new 1000 volt 6amp diodes i have some positive results. 1 amp in 1.5 litres a minute out. i think i still have few air leaks in the case so am replacing it before going to much further.