Wood Gasification

[evolvingape]

Oh man I drive myself crazy sometimes, great simple idea like this and I am not near my workshop for a week!

So I was amusing myself doing some simple calculations...

Energy $ IN by water company = Who gives a **** ?

Energy $ IN by YOU = 0

Energy OUT is positive!

So the more efficient you make your device, the more energy you get for free $ paid for by the water company, who would be happy to compensate you for the damage they have done lacing your water supply with fluoride poison, and they will also be happy to absorb the rapidly rising cost of electricity bills as their buddies in the electricity monopolies stiff everyone for more $...

hahaha what a good day!

RM

[kcarring]

"It's hard to know what is going to work best for my particular design because nobody has built it before, once I have the parts though a little trial and error should give me the 5 HP I am looking for, If I cannot achieve that then 2 1/2 HP would also be good because that should give me 15V and I then have a 12V system. My goal in all this is to charge a battery, once I have achieved that, I will look at improving the efficiency of the system."

You will easily obtain these results if you build a more modern hearth and plate setup than the most basic of basic designs: The FEMA. 5 as a minimum, and up from there.

Let me share some quoted conversation a while back with Matt from Vulcan:

Actually, M-1 will do just fine on chips. Ive ran a few hoppers of ceder though the proto with minimal bridging. If you tie a piece of flat bar steel between the unit and the gen I think it will eliminate the bridging. The reason I recomend the pellets is to increase your run times if you dont have the expantion hopper. Both the E-1 and M-1 have roughly the same capacity if the M-1 has the expansoin hopper. I was talking with a guy that is running a chevy small block with pretty much the same specs as my E-1 and it runs that motor just fine. The only diference is I have 4" restrictor in my design. Im thinking I might build these units with a 5" restrictor in a stock form and offer smaller restrictor plates for it. This also determins what you can run in the gsifier too.

So if those specs work on a small block chevy I would think the M-1 could actually run something with around 100 hp. But I wont know for sure intill I test it LOL

I havent gotten that far yet but I think Ill add a place for the shaker tie in. Im not going to offer a shaker grate standard on the gasifiers to ruduce the cost. It will be an upgrade. If one chooses to do this after there product ships they will need to drill a hole and a weld pipe nipple for mounting it. I dont think they really need this any ways. The grate does float inside and if you tie it in with the flat bar steel you should never have a problem.

As for assisting the gas through the unit. You never want to put a postitve presure on the gsifier. I played around with this pushing air into the intake of the gasifier and it makes a big mess. What ends up happening is some of the gases inside make there way up to the top of the hopper. These gases havent fully completed the pryolisys process and soon you will have tar drippingdown the sides of your gasifier. This can be dangerous as well if the tars cure the lid can get glued down. The lid is the flash back arestor. If that fails that would be bad.

But you can still put a fan on the gas side of the unit and push into the engine. I dont think you will need this though. But I have thought about this as well

Matt


Hi Matt,

Thanks for the explanation, I'm afraid I'm really not up on my terminology. Hopefully the "kit" documentations and my own further study will get me there. You are busy, very.. I'm sure, so I will leave it at that. For now. Time for some more "due diligence" I don't expect you to hold my hand, entirely... let me read up.

Cheers
Kyle

-- later on i sent this ---


I found this, albeit under the label of Stratified Downdraft design:

"An important issue in the design of the stratified, downdraft gasifier is the prevention of fuel bridging and channeling. High grade biomass fuels, such as wood blocks or chips, will flow down through the gasifter because of gravity and downdraft air flow. However, other fuels (such as shredded chips, sawdust, and bark) can form a bridge, which will obstruct continous flow and cause very high temperatures. Bridging can be prevented by stirring, shaking, or by agitating the grate or by having it agitated by the vehicle's movement. For prolonged idling, a hand-operatied shaker has been included in the design in this report."

So I'll assume this definition of bridging. So in a flat bar, you mean, use the "shake and shimmy" of the ICE to avoid bridging of this definition?


LOL,

Yup, That is it. You'll just use a steel strap to link the unit to the generator so the gen will vibrate the gasifier a little.


Very good thanks. It could well be that this situation works out nicely. If there are several family mills already creating fuel, and can't do anything with it, anyway... your reactors might make for a very nice augment to a couple of solar panels, for example. As such, I don't really see these things as running unattended all night while people go home.. rather running during the day when they can be monitored, charging battery banks, in prep for the night - to then run yard lights, etc.

Cheers

[evolvingape]

@kcarring

Thanks for that most interesting. Just one question, what is the difference in the more modern hearth designs ? Is the reduction cone an example ?

And what does the 5 as a minimum mean ?

Thanks,

Rob

[evolvingape]

Just a quick update... New even simpler design...

We have the sink science turbine which uses the potential energy you have already paid for in your water bill, and turn it into kinetic energy by leaving the tap on 24/7:

SinkScience #01 -Tesla CD Turbine: Fun Science Learning Tool - YouTube

Then we have the DIY alternator that is magnetically coupled to the turbine:

Radial Air core alternator

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...-whit-day.html

I am going to aim for the 30 - 50 Watts version and see if the turbine can run it.

Then we can use the electrode boiler idea in the Peter Davey thread and wire the output from the alternator directly to it. As the stator coils and the boiler are stationary no problem! I am going to go with the Joe Cell kinda design because I have the pipes already and have tested the concept.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ter-query.html

The beauty of this is that those folks wanting to experiment with resonance via altering the AC frequency can now do so by throttling the tap and are not stuck at 110 or 220 Hz.

The way this is all linking together is very spooky!

30 - 50 Watts is not a lot but seeing as it is energy available that is just sitting there doing nothing right now, seems a waste not to play with it. It is enough for simple electrolysis in a small dry cell, and it is enough to heat water if you wait long enough, maybe not boil it though unless heavily insulated.

Anyway I will leave that with you all, I need some sleep!

Rob

[dave_cahoon]

Whatever you build you have to feed.

Hello Group,

Woodgas is a really great (And very OLD) Tech. Providing 3x heat for same volume wood compared to a standard wood burning heating application.
But, when we start talking running engines, it becomes a bit more difficult to match the engine fuel demand to the Gas producer without making tar gas.

The BIG problem is feeding the producer the correct shaped fuel for its design.

If your running a saw mill, after a much welding work is done. You can run the mill on woodgas in short order. Using chunks of wood.

Wood chippers make shredded wood that should be sifted and then still has a bridging problem. If producer is shaken to much the chips pack in tighter and restricts the flow of gasses. Not enough and it bridges.

Pellets seem good in small systems <20hp? They don't like the wet environment of most hopper designs, And must be burnt up at the end of a run. Or they turn to oatmeal and then sometimes re-harden.

Here is some of the effort put into making fuel processing equipment.

Wood Chunker - YouTube +some good advice
wayne keith wood chunker - YouTube
as can be seen there is an energy input. human or otherwise.

ALL OF THE ABOVE PROBLEMS CAN BE OVERCOME in the design of the producer. If, you can get the wood.

Running the v8 engine truck on woodgas is about pound a mile +- if stationary, 1lb per minuet. Think about that long and hard before investing $ into this. A 12 hour run is 720 minuet/pounds. Thats lots of chunks...

For the guy that wants to add HHO to Woodgas I remind you that wood gas is 20-30% hydrogen already. Those bubbles wont make much difference.
However using the exhaust heat and urea to make ammonia bubbles WILL make a difference on small engines. Nitrogen Hydrogen Booster- WFC - YouTube and may help with the engine clogging tar problem.

I wish anyone that is in a position where wood is abundant in chunks to JUMP on this as it DOES work!

Anyone that wants to purchase a wood-chips heating system.
Here is a guy in Canada that's making them. Contact info is at the bottom of Downdraft Gasification (Gasifier, Woodgas, Gengas, Producer Gas ) the building of a unit.

I have other posts on this subject, here on another older thread.

Best Regards
Dave

[rickoff]

Good info, Dave. Thanks!

[kcarring]

"For the guy that wants to add HHO to Woodgas I remind you that wood gas is 20-30% hydrogen already. Those bubbles wont make much difference."

On my home built (crude) setup - quite the contrary. While you are correct - what you didn't mention, is, the gas is also about 50% nitrogen, and therein lies the problem: NOX. In my crude tests, emissions, were drastically improved; but we shall see when using a better system.

Cheers

[evolvingape]

The Universe is a Potential Difference Engine...

The sink science turbine is really exciting and I have been working on developing the concept for a long time. It took that long for all the variables to be reduced to a simple system and that only happened a few days ago, when I told everyone. I also needed the sonic boiler info and energy creator's thread on PMA's, that gave me the missing knowledge I needed to finish the concept, and judging by the silence people either like it, or hate it!

Anyway, it has larger implications than anyone yet realises...

Remember the PLASMICS thread ? Well there I am talking about using the sea as a simple sea siphon. The thing about the sea is that it has a natural 1 bar of atmospheric pressure pushing down on it, and in addition for every ten meters below the surface you go the pressure increases by 1 bar... so... at a depth of ten meters you have 2 bar of pressure, and at 20 metres you have 3 bar etc...

PLASMICS

So the simple formula is (depth in metres / 10 ) + 1 = actual pressure in bar
CalcTool: Pressure at depth calculator

The thing about the sea is that it is so huge, with such a large volume, that the mass flow rate for a siphon is for all intents and purposes, infinite. If you put 2 pipes side by side they will have identical pressure and identical mass flow rate. The pressure will always be constant, ie 2 bar for a pipe 10 metres below the surface, but the mass flow rate is a user defined variable. What this means is you can control the amount of water by controlling the bore size of the pipe, so if you double the bore size you double the mass flow rate at that pressure (approximately), you can also add another pipe with an identical bore which will be more efficient with less pressure drop than a larger bore pipe. This is not how it works in your tap, because the next door neighbour turns their tap on and you share the flow that is available, if there is not enough then the pressure drops to compensate and you both get less water (and you start banging on the wall and shouting at them for stealing your energy!).

So what I am saying is that you can for all intents and purposes tap as much energy as you want from the sea, at a constant pressure, just by increasing the mass flow rate of the fluid. Imagine two of these sink science turbines, side by side on the same tap performing as if only one was connected. Now imagine 10 of them, now 100, now 1000, you get the point ? Of course the sea level will drop, but not very noticeably we are probably talking millimetres a year at most and all the time extracting useable, exponentially expandable power. The water will get returned through natural processes anyway, more on that in a minute

The secret to this system is what you do with the water when you have siphoned it out of the sea, and run it through your turbine ? Here's the answer...

Sahara Desert - The Sahara Desert in Africa

Sahara Desert

Lowest Land Points Below Sea Level Map | Depression Elevations

“An important feature of the Sahara in Egypt is the Qattara Depression. This desert area is 436 ft (133 m) below sea level at its lowest point. There are several other depressions in the Sahara. “

So we can see that the lowest point of the depression is at 130m below sea level, and a siphon tube from a depth of 130m in the sea, going up and over land at sea level, and then dropping to the bottom of this depression will give us a pressure of 14 bar (196 psi) at a virtually infinite mass flow rate! This could easily run a large turbine acting as a power plant generator and produce substantial power.

There will be a limit to what you can siphon out of the sea, and that limit will be set by how you get rid of the water. The electrode boilers being 100% efficient can boil the water off with the power generated by the turbines, which will involve losses but will empty your tank for more water, this will also create a cloud seeding technology comprising of only natural water vapor. However there is also natural evaporation which is governed by temperature and surface area, the enthalpy of evaporation, so a very large area flat plate with a few mm of water on it, painted black will evaporate the water off by the power of the sun, leaving behind all the impurities, minerals, heavy metals, salt etc, all the valuable stuff!

Abundances of the elements (data page) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<Gold from the Sea

Can Gold be Extracted from Seawater?

A simple sea siphon running in a closed loop (ie from the sea into the depression tank, and from the tank back to the sea will circulate the sea water at the cost of the sea pressure one way, and a relatively small pumping cost the other way). To siphon the depression tank water back into the sea the water level must be slightly higher than sea level. The easiest way to do this will be to use the same principle as those wave machines in the swimming pools, create a tsunami! Easy to do, just run massive HHO generators, detonate a big charge of primary explosive, a shaped pressure wave will generate a tsunami with a maximum amplitude above sea level. A correctly designed tank will transfer huge volumes of water into another tank that was already at sea level, and the tank will siphon back into the sea. Be a fun job to have!

If the sea water is below saturation point in it's salt levels, it will pick up the dried salt deposits on its way and transport that salt back to the sea. The sea salt saturation level now becomes a controlled variable. If the sea water is already heavily saturated run it through a pre evaporation chamber, and remove the excess salt and sell it into the world's economy.

A vacuum will need to be applied to the sea siphon and this can be easily done by using a prime mover and driving the turbine (backwards in effect) and it becomes a pump. Once the siphon is self powering, you turn the motor off and run the turbine from the fluid pressure and the motor now acts as the generator! Easy!

So do you see what I am saying ? We can run massive turbines like the power stations do now, but we can do it virtually for free, for ever, and we can purify the sea, and we can turn the sahara desert green, and we can grow food, and provide drinking water and power to the people. This can be implemented all over the world...

You could also get inventive, and use those deep sea oil drilling rigs to drill a bore into rock, which will fill with fluid (water) and be pressurised by the weight of the entire ocean above it. So as an example you can drill a hole 6,000 ft into solid rock, drop a siphon to the bottom, and the water at the bottom will be at 3,000 psi... quite an improvement on our 196 psi natural pressure!

The key here will be to excavate a deep crater, use a tunnel drilling machine to bore horizontally, and when you have laid a pressure pipe structure breach the wall and let the sea in. Then connect up your high pressure siphon. The pressure differential between sea level, the depth of the bore hole, and the depth of the power plant will allow you to exploit a much higher pressure than using natural depressions in the Earth.

Bit Tooth Energy: Oil well pressures - what brings out the oil

Pretty exciting stuff eh ?

RM

[evolvingape]

Everyone is well on the way to understanding the water tap turbine generator and some people will have it on the prototype bench by now... so... here is a little extra add on project for you!

Kelvin's Thunderstorm...

Lord Kelvins thunderstorm - YouTube

The water that is being exhausted out from your turbine is currently going right down the drain and carrying it's potential energy with it. Instead of wasting it let's use it!

The turbine exhaust fluid is used to fill the top reservoir of the Kelvin's Thunderstorm device, which then drips out under gravity and generates a charge imbalance which produces a 15,000 Volt spark across a gap. This is interesting because that is exactly what we need for a spark plug... so those people that are choosing to use the electrical output from the generator (AC rectified to DC) and pumping that energy into a HHO Cell, can now use that HHO to charge a chamber and detonate it cyclicly with a high voltage spark.

All of the above are system component requirements for the basis of a combustion engine that produces water and heat as it's exhaust product. Now it is just a case of scale. Remember you are doing all this with only your standard 1 – 2 bar tap pressure and a modest flow rate of water.

The other thing you should remember is that the turbine speeds you are generating are very low for a turbine (your probably running way less than 1000 RPM under full load), so you need to know about torque and how that effects a turbine generator system.

See page 7 Reply # 95

Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser

What I am talking about here in this post is torque moment, a few key excerpts are as follows:

Torque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“The magnitude of torque depends on three quantities: the force applied, the length of the lever arm connecting the axis to the point of force application, and the angle between the force vector and the lever arm. “

“The length of the lever arm is particularly important; choosing this length appropriately lies behind the operation of levers, pulleys, gears, and most other simple machines involving a mechanical advantage.”

“A force applied at a right angle to a lever multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum (the length of the lever arm) is its torque. A force of three newtons applied two metres from the fulcrum, for example, exerts the same torque as a force of one newton applied six metres from the fulcrum.”

There are three selective quotes from that Wikipedia page I linked to above. So we can see that the length of the lever arm is particularly important. This is why Tesla went so big with his discs, he was trying to maximise the turning moment (and also the time component), or torque.

We know the problems we have with large discs tearing themselves apart due to the speed differential which the discs radii are turning at, and because centrifugal force applies a tensile force that also wants to tear the material apart. So it is being pulled apart in different planes and so must be very strong to withstand this.

This was the reason I went to this design, the support frame is just that, a support frame. Each part of it can be designed to absorb the forces it will be undergoing. It can also be made super light out of modern materials.

I was also able to get rid of the turbine housing using this design, because they give me a headache, as housings always do. Boundary layer turbine housings are annoying anyway because you lose pressure due to the inability to seal a static to a rotating without applying a drag force through friction.

So, basically this design allows a fantastic potential power to weight ratio, because we can go so light on the support structure and increase the power by extending the lever. It is going to be limited by how large a diameter you can go and still support the impulse force without critical failure.



The reason the above is important ? Remember Tesla's 60” Turbine ?

The water tap turbine operates primarily on low pressure / high mass flow rate ratio, which is perfectly suited to a large slow spinning turbine such as the one we are involved with here. So you can improve the performance of your turbine by building a high quality unit on single row sealed bearings (highest RPM capability) and increasing the size of the rotor diameter drastically, which will mean a larger torque moment about the generator shaft and produce more Watts out for the same RPM, because you can use a generator design with more resistance.

Now you have a miniature fuel processing plant, powered by low water pressure, that produces HHO and also creates it's ignition source spark... only question is what are you going to do then ?

Linear piston engine and crankshaft ? (need ceramic seals)

Rotary Engine of some sort ? (no seals, more efficient)

That's enough for tonight,

RM

[evolvingape]

Here are some pretty cool and recent videos I just found on youtube that should demonstrate the relevance of turbines in a woodgas thread:

New Steam Turbine 150psi 15krpm 1kW.wmv - YouTube

I love this guys video's he is pretty clued up, although I can see a lot of areas where he can improve his efficiency drastically, beyond what he has already mentioned in his comments. One of the most important is superheating the steam before injection into the turbine. The steam needs to be as close to 100% dry as possible because it is then fully expanded, when the turbine is run on saturated steam it is only partially expanded, with a corresponding high volume loss and therefore pressure loss. Ideally the steam will be coming out of the turbine exhaust still superheated and then just begin to drop into saturated temperature range as it enters the heat exchanger, through an expansion nozzle on the exhaust outlet, with a corresponding drop in fluid volume which will apply a nice partial vacuum to the turbine exhaust, improving efficiency by reducing back pressure. If it is still saturated while it is in the turbine it condenses and pools in the bottom of the housing slowing the rotor down via friction drag, as some of you know. If you look closely on some of the videos you can see it pouring out of the bottom of the housing when he shuts the system down.

Remember that with a system like this the overall efficiency is not just conversion to shaft horsepower, it is about the efficiency of the input energy to the output energy, and most of that energy is still present and recoverable in the saturated steam in the form of heat (75% energy recovery is common and achievable in steam turbine power generation systems). The rest of this guys videos are great as well for those of you looking to go fully off grid for all your needs powered by woodgas!

This next video is interesting as it shows a 24” Tesla turbine stack, minus the housing:

24" Boundary Layer Tesla Turbine - YouTube

I am including this link below from an old article because it is quite good in an exploratory potential sense and at the bottom has a chart of “expected ways to improve performance” and suggested directions of research into improving the efficiency of these machines. Those of you who have read my work will know that I have attempted to address a lot of the ideas raised here with my designs, and quite a few more besides. Ken Riely's site has a report on the Winglet's design which improved efficiency of RPM by 30% over the original Tesla patent design without load. It is important to remember that this technology sat idle with practically no interest, research or innovation at all for around 100 years! Now compare this to the $ trillions ? spent on developing ICE's over the same time period which are still at best only 20% efficient and polluting. The counter argument is normally that ICE's produce more torque which you want for car applications etc, however I counter that turbines are designed for electrical power generation and electric motors are very high torque also. There is lot's of potential here, my hybrid turbine engine designs are primarily impulse and reaction rotors with boundary layer effects secondary for example:

http://gyroscope.com/images/teslaturbine/mk2/manual.pdf

and my hybrid RotoMax designs:

RotoMax Rotary Engine... Tesla - Wankel - Mason HHO Hybrid

and here is something to get you all thinking, I was not going to say anything about this yet, but I changed my mind about 5 minutes ago...

Soda Can Crusher - Cool Science Experiment - YouTube

How to Crush a 55 Gallon Drum - Cool Science Demo - YouTube

How does this principle observed in the two can crushing videos above relate to the principles of operation of my RotoMax design ? That should get you thinking

Have a nice day all, I am now off to get some much needed sleep, starting to feel like a zombie!

Rob

[evolvingape]

I am going to split this up into two posts as there is a lot to cover. I have copied over the most important paragraphs from these pages:

Energy System

Potential and Kinetic Energy
Whenever we say that we are producing energy, what we really mean is that we are transforming energy from one form to another that is more usable. For example, water at the top of a waterfall has more gravitational potential energy than when is at the bottom of the waterfall, because the water at the top is further from the centre of the Earth than at the bottom. So, if the water is allowed to fall from the top to the bottom, (that is, the Earth's gravitational force does work on the water moving it), then the energy stored as potential energy at the top becomes transformed into the kinetic energy of this water and we can use it to do work. This is the principle behind the production of hydroelectric power.

Potential energy, therefore, is the energy associated with different positions in the force field. The water at the top of a waterfall has higher gravitational potential energy than at the bottom because of the different positions in the gravitational field. Consider two points (A and B) in the Earth's gravitational field (g) where B is h meters higher than A. Then a mass (m) has a potential energy mgh higher than its potential energy at A. At a point 2h above A, the mass has a potential energy of 2mgh. So height is a measure of the potential energy.

Thus, an analogy with water and gravitational potential energy gives us a way to represent energy levels showing the potential energy state of a system in terms of horizontal lines. Thus we could say that the 100 m point above the lowest level in a waterfall has 980 Joules gravitational potential energy per kg of water above the lowest point.

m * g * h = E (Energy)

1 kg * 9.8 m/sec2 * 98 m = 980 J

These formulas also demonstrate that potential energy is a representation of the position of a system in a field of force. The 1 kg of water in our example has higher potential energy when it is further away from the center of force (center of the Earth). At point A, the water is more "bound" (to the Earth) than at point C. We will use this idea later to draw the analogous levels to represent chemical potential energy.

[From this we can see that water in free fall will be accelerated by gravity and will convert it's potential gravitational energy into kinetic energy which can be used to generate power. The potential difference of the system arises from the height differential in a gravitational field which is called the “head”]

Renewable Energy, Hydroelectric Power

Moving water is a powerful entity responsible for lighting entire cities, even countries. Thousands of years ago the Greeks used water wheels, which picked up water in buckets around a wheel. The water's weight caused the wheel to turn, converting kinetic energy into mechanical energy for grinding grain and pumping water. In the 1800s the water wheel was often used to power machines such as timber-cutting saws in European and American factories. More importantly, people realized that the force of water falling from a height would turn a turbine connected to a generator to produce electricity. Niagara Falls , a natural waterfall, powered the first hydroelectric plant in 1879.

Man-made waterfalls dams were constructed throughout the 1900s in order to maximize this source of energy. Aside from a plant for electricity production, a hydropower facility consists of a water reservoir enclosed by a dam whose gates can open or close depending on how much water is needed to produce a particular amount of electricity. Once electricity is produced it is transported along huge transmission lines to an electric utility company.

"By the 1940s, the best sites for large dams had been developed." But like most other renewable sources of energy, hydropower could not compete with inexpensive fossil fuels at the time. "It wasn't until the price of oil skyrocketed in the 1970s that people became interested in hydropower again." Today one-fifth of global electricity is generated by falling water.

There are several favorable features of hydropower. Anywhere rain falls, there will be rivers. If a particular section of river has the right terrain to form a reservoir, it may be suitable for dam construction. No fossil fuels are required to produce the electricity, and the earth's hydrologic cycle naturally replenishes the "fuel" supply. Therefore no pollution is released into the atmosphere and no waste that requires special containment is produced. Since "water is a naturally recurring domestic product and is not subject to the whims of foreign suppliers," there is no worry of unstable prices, transportation issues, production strikes, or other national security issues.

Hydropower is very convenient because it can respond quickly to fluctuations in demand. A dam's gates can be opened or closed on command, depending on daily use or gradual economic growth in the community. The production of hydroelectricity is often slowed in the nighttime when people use less energy. When a facility is functioning, no water is wasted or released in an altered state; it simply returns unharmed to continue the hydrologic cycle. The reservoir of water resulting from dam construction, which is essentially stored energy, can support fisheries and preserves, and provide various forms of water-based recreation for locals and tourists. Land owned by the hydroelectric company is often open to the public for hiking, hunting, and skiing. Therefore, "hydropower reservoirs contribute to local economies. A study of one medium-sized hydropower project in Wisconsin showed that the recreational value to residents and visitors exceeded $6.5 million annually." Not to mention the economic stimulation provided by employment.

Hydroelectric power is also very efficient and inexpensive. "Modern hydro turbines can convert as much as 90% of the available energy into electricity. The best fossil fuel plants are only about 50% efficient. In the US , hydropower is produced for an average of 0.7 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh). This is about one-third the cost of using fossil fuel or nuclear and one-sixth the cost of using natural gas," as long as the costs for removing the dam and the silt it traps are not included. Efficiency could be further increased by refurbishing hydroelectric equipment. An improvement of only 1% would supply electricity to an additional 300,000 households.

Hydropower has become "the leading source of renewable energy. It provides more than 97% of all electricity generated by renewable sources worldwide. Other sources including solar, geothermal, wind, and biomass account for less than 3% of renewable electricity production." In the US , 81% of the electricity produced by renewable sources comes from hydropower. "Worldwide, about 20% of all electricity is generated by hydropower." Some regions depend on it more than others. For example, 75% of the electricity produced in New Zealand and over 99% of the electricity produced in Norway come from hydropower.

The use of hydropower "prevents the burning of 22 billion gallons of oil or 120 million tons of coal each year." In other words, "the carbon emissions avoided by the nation's hydroelectric industry are the equivalent of an additional 67 million passenger cars on the road 50 percent more than there are currently." The advantages of hydropower are therefore convincing, but there are some serious drawbacks that are causing people to reconsider its overall benefit.

Since the most feasible sites for dams are in hilly or mountainous areas, the faults that often created the topography pose a great danger to the dams and therefore the land below them for thousands of years after they have become useless for generating power. In fact, dam failures do occur regularly due to these terrain conditions, and the effects are devastating.

The majority of this post is self explanatory. The key point I want everyone to realise is that the ocean is the world's biggest dam, it is so huge and contains so much water that it will continue to supply water under natural atmospheric, and gravitational pressure at a virtually infinite mass flow rate. So if we were to adopt the siphon principle, we could reduce or eliminate siltation inlet problems, harness potential gravitational energy in freefall, and possibly convert that high mass flow rate into higher pressure for direct injection into a turbine by using the de laval nozzle principle on a very large scale.

RM

[evolvingape]

Part 2...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectricity

Some background information. However if we are going to apply these principles on a small scale at home we have to look at how we can do that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_hydro

Pico hydro is a term used for hydroelectric power generation of under 5kW. It is useful in small, remote communities that require only a small amount of electricity - for example, to power one or two fluorescent light bulbs and a TV or radio in 50 or so homes. Even smaller turbines of 200-300W may power a single home in a developing country with a drop of only 1 meter. Pico-hydro setups typically are run-of-stream, meaning that dams are not used, but rather pipes divert some of the flow, drop this down a gradient, and through the turbine before being exhausted back to the stream.
Like other hydroelectric and renewable source power generation, pollution and consumption of fossil fuels is reduced (there is still typically an environmental cost to the manufacture of the generator and distribution methods)

This is particularly useful for what we are exploring with sink science! There is also the possibility of using small streams that run through your property to do the same thing, especially if there is a height difference between the top and bottom of the streams, a head.

Now let's examine the most efficient way to extract this water flow energy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelton_turbine

The Pelton wheel is an impulse turbine which is among the most efficient types of water turbines. It was invented by Lester Allan Pelton in the 1870s. The Pelton wheel extracts energy from the impulse (momentum) of moving water, as opposed to its weight like traditional overshot water wheel. Although many variations of impulse turbines existed prior to Pelton's design, they were less efficient than Pelton's design; the water leaving these wheels typically still had high speed, and carried away much of the energy. Pelton's paddle geometry was designed so that when the rim runs at ½ the speed of the water jet, the water leaves the wheel with very little speed, extracting almost all of its energy, and allowing for a very efficient turbine.

The Pelton Turbine is going to be a much better option for extracting the energy in the water flow efficiently and is not too demanding a project. At this point we will have a turbine spinning at approximately 200 RPM, so we either need to design our PMA to generate most efficiently at a low speed, or we need to convert torque into higher RPM. This can be achieved using a pulley and belt system which will step up the RPM by a factor of 10 to give us an alternator RPM of 2000 in this example.

The previously stated goal of running the alternator and generating between 30 – 50 Watts no longer seems so improbable. Your results will vary depending on the design of your system, efficiencies of components, and the water pressure and flow rate available for you to use. If you can generate electricity in the 100+ Watt range then things will get really interesting!

A quick summary so far...

Water flow available to you for free is efficiently converted into rotary moment, this rotary moment is then used to generate electricity via a PMA. This electricity is then converted to HHO in a small dry cell. The water that has been used in these energy conversion processes has had most of it's kinetic energy stripped from it and now resides in a reservoir, where it only has potential energy.

Via controlled release from this potential energy reservoir in small, rapid droplets, the potential energy is converted to kinetic energy by gravity and the thin water stream falls through a Kelvin generator and generates a cyclic pulse of high voltage DC electricity. The Kelvin generator is a separate system from the Turbine generator and so it's properties can be considered separately in relation to the source energy.

The output flow rate from the potential energy reservoir required for operation of the Kelvin generator is not equal to the input flow rate or pressure of the inlet tap, it is considerably less, therefore a potential difference has been created, in order to balance these two factors it will be necessary to increase the flow rate from the potential energy reservoir. In practice this will mean multiple Kelvin generators being installed until the flow rate from the potential energy reservoir = the water tap inlet flow rate. Keep adding Kelvin generators until the potential energy reservoir at the turbine exhaust maintains a steady water level, then the system is balanced.

We have already discussed how a system like this can produce HHO and an ignition source, but now you have to decide what your going to do with all those extra high voltage DC spikes being generated by the additional Kelvin generators. Maybe a good way to experiment with HV DC low Current electrolysis ? Can you store the energy efficiently in a capacitor and transform it to a lower voltage higher current output for electrolysis by using a transformer ?

Transformer Basics

Basic principles
An analogy
The transformer may be considered as a simple two-wheel 'gearbox' for electrical voltage and current. The primary winding is analogous to the input shaft and the secondary winding to the output shaft. In this comparison, current is equivalent to shaft speed, voltage to shaft torque. In a gearbox, mechanical power (speed multiplied by torque) is constant (neglecting losses) and is equivalent to electrical power (voltage multiplied by current) which is also constant.

The gear ratio is equivalent to the transformer step-up or step-down ratio. A step-up transformer acts analogously to a reduction gear (in which mechanical power is transferred from a small, rapidly rotating gear to a large, slowly rotating gear): it trades current (speed) for voltage (torque), by transferring power from a primary coil to a secondary coil having more turns. A step-down transformer acts analogously to a multiplier gear (in which mechanical power is transferred from a large gear to a small gear): it trades voltage (torque) for current (speed), by transferring power from a primary coil to a secondary coil having fewer turns.

[Above is the principle of converting RPM and Torque already discussed above, in a different context with the common denominator of energy types all being viewed as fluids.] The many electrical geniuses that lurk on these forums would be most helpful if they could design and demonstrate a practical way to transform the approximate 15kV from a Kelvin generator into useful power for HHO production, or other applications... Please ?

So, quite a lot to take in, lot's of avenues to explore. My personal goal is to develop a HHO processing plant that is powered by water pressure from the tap and then use that HHO to run a small scale engine, of some type. The principles learned with these little models will help develop the technology to be deployed on a larger scale with a water supply source available that has more potential energy to tap.

Another avenue that I am contemplating exploring is using the small scale HHO produced and detonating it inside a cylinder chamber, transferring that energy to a piston which will compress air, generating heat that will then be transferred to water... here is what I am talking about:

Weekend Project: Fire Piston - YouTube

So my thinking is, Produce HHO from your tap, detonate it with a Kelvin generator spark, the expansion from the gases drives the piston, which rapidly heats the air in the tube (compressible gas) and transfers all that pressure and heat to a small volume of water in the bottom of the chamber, which vaporises the water instantly into steam, and as steam expands up to 1600 times it's liquid volume, it drives the piston back up with huge force... ooh and look at all these model piston engines with a crankshaft and everything...

Just Engines Model Fuel Info

Have to overcome the oil requirement issue, maybe inject it with the water charge, maybe use emulsified oil and water which Mr Goose kindly added to my information library, have to machine a new head gasket incorporating the fire tube and HHO chamber, but overall considering the gearbox and crankshaft are already there, and the engines are very cheap really, and some of them generate 4HP + it might be a nice little way of exploring this project. Imagine if you could run a 4HP micro motor from your tap ?

Steam Engines | Cotswold Heritage | Model Engineering Casting Kits

Does this make me an ICE guy now, or a steam guy, or a turbine guy... ?



RM

[evolvingape]

Here is some interesting Pelton turbine information:

smartdrive pelton wheel 1 - YouTube

Pelton water turbine generator powering saw - YouTube

Pelton Turbine Learning Module - http://octavesim.com - YouTube

Turbina Pelton, Pelton Turbine, Pelton Wheel - YouTube

Pelton turbine hydro.wmv - YouTube

https://sites.google.com/site/pamorpelton/home

RM

[evolvingape]

Let's bring all this information round full circle and see how it can assist those people heavily invested or otherwise interested in gasifier systems for off grid power generation...

Here we have a commercial Pelton Turbine, very well made, but expensive, so I will be making my own.

PowerSpout - Water goes in, Power comes out

and a very useful calculator:

Advanced Calculator

So, this is great if I live on a mountain or have the Amazon flowing past my back garden but what do I do if I cannot use the mains water pressure because it is metered and will cost me a fortune, and have no source of water with a pressure head I can access ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsometer_steam_pump

The Pulsometer steam pump is a pistonless pump which was patented in 1872[1] by American Charles Henry Hall. In 1875 a British Engineer bought the patent rights of the Pulsometer[2] and it was introduced to the market soon thereafter. The invention was inspired by the Savery steam pump invented by Thomas Savery. Around the turn of the century, it was a popular and efficient pump for quarry pumping.

This extremely simple pump was made of cast iron, and had no pistons, rods, cylinders, cranks, or flywheels. It operated by the direct action of steam on water. The mechanism consisted of two chambers. As the steam condensed in one chamber, it acted as a suction pump, while in the other chamber, steam was introduced under pressure and so it acted as a force pump. At the end of every stroke, a ball valve consisting of a small rubber ball moved slightly, causing the two chambers to swap functions from suction-pump to force-pump and vice versa. The result was that the water was first suction pumped and then force pumped.

The pump ran automatically without attendance. It was praised for its "extreme simplicity of construction, operation, compact form, high efficiency, economy, durability, and adaptability". Later designs were improved upon to enhance efficiency and to make the machine more accessible for inspection and repairs, thus reducing maintenance costs.

So you can run your gasifier, create steam pressure in a boiler, use this pressure in an automatic pump to create a pressure head in your water supply, use the higher pressure head to drive a Pelton turbine which drives your generator, and then recirculate the water back to the reservoir for another cycle.

No expensive engines or turbines involved, and very useful power output without the need for a natural pressure head. This system will also operate in a suitable boiler over an open fire, or preferably hot ashes, but will be less efficient than a gasifier design and require more fuel, but does allow you to get going on the other parts of the system and add the gasifier last.

As always the steam boiler is the most dangerous part of the system so pay this the most attention!

RM

The Pulsometer Steam Pump is a virtually forgotten technology from what I can gather and there is very little information available on it, but I did manage to find a few pictures:

Pulsometer Engineering Co

You don't need thousands of psi output from it, but something like 100 psi at a high mass flow rate would be extremely useful in this application.

RM

[evolvingape]

This is my favourite picture:

File:Im18800102E-Pulsometer.jpg

“The illustration shows a Pulsometer attached to a Vertical Boiler on Wheels, forming a very handy arrangement for many purposes. The Pulsometer can readily be detached from the boiler, and slung down a shaft, well, or used for other work, at some distance away.”

Now imagine the same device in the illustration, built using modern technology, with a gasifier powering the boiler, and a Pelton turbine on the pump outlet. It will be portable so that it can be used anywhere there is a ground lake, it can be built into a vehicle with an onboard reservoir just like a fire truck, or it can sit in your back garden and use a reservoir of water, that you dug out and then filled just like a pond. The only requirement will be fuel... woodchips!

Not an undesirable system to my mind... you guys still with me ?

RM

I almost forgot, here is the output figures they give for different models:

Model 1 - 600 Gallons per Hour
Model 2 - 2000 Gallons per Hour
Model 3 - 3800 Gallons per Hour
Model 4 - 5000 Gallons per Hour
Model 5 - 9000 Gallons per Hour
Model 6 - 13200 Gallons per Hour
Model 7 - 17000 Gallons per Hour
Model 8 - 28000 Gallons per Hour
Model 9 - 35000 Gallons per Hour
Model 10 - 52000 Gallons per Hour
Model 11 - 65000 Gallons per Hour

The pumps are priced between £10 and £200 so I guess that is incentive enough for me to get working on that time machine!

I wonder what the "GREL" arrangement means ? 40 - 50% saving on steam sure sounds interesting... hmmm ? Should be in the patent

File:Im18891213Eng-Pulsometer.jpg

RM