Do US auto makers deserve $25B taxpayers for new mpg goals?

[wpage]

Part of the $700B package is $25 Billion for GM Ford to retool to meet the new cafe miles per gallons standards set for future.

The new mpg standards for cars and trucks is a long time coming.

How do you feel about financing us car makers to get it?

[ashtweth]

Criminal pay out

They can already produce EV's

[future pather]

They can, but they have to make all these changes in their production to do so.

I don't know if that amount of $ is appropriate, but I never thought these changes were going to happen without some kind of investment from somebody.

If I have to be that somebody (or one of them) I would chose to be over the changes not being made.


Jessica

[Chip Shorter]

Pay Now or Pay later. Whats the difference? In the end you will be taken advantage of.

[amigo]

I read somewhere it's not just US Auto Makers but also foreign ones that have factories on US soil, something like that...

[dubsta]

These corporations has zero moral scruples.
They should be made to face the music just like any responsable person or corporation would if they made terrbile decisions.

Think about it, as if anyone would bail us out if we screwed up that bad.

Also lets not forget, GM was fined 5K for colluding with standard oil & firestone. They basically bought up all the electric infrastructure used for buses and dismantled it all shortly after.

I wouldnt mind GM going belly up.
Harsh but another more responsible corporation could easily take its place.
Besides, anytime they do something right its because they used European engineering or technologies.

Besides EV1, they havent come up with anything worth mentioning in 40+ years.

[future pather]

They should be made to face the music just like any responsable person or corporation would if they made terrbile decisions.

One could argue that they have made good decisions. . .from a business perspective. I'm sure one could argue against that as well but I'm just pointing out that I am not surprised when a business makes decisions that it considers good for business.

Also I always keep in mind that it's easier to criticize than create. If it were really so easy to make more efficient vehicles and run a successful business doing so, no one would be mad at these companies bc they would be buying from whatever companies were doing a better job.

I don't work for a car company or anything, I just usually feel that attacking what we don't like isn't incredibly productive.

Per LOA the more we appreciate what we have now, the easier it is to get better stuff

Jessica

[rickoff]

Some thoughts from the man in Maine....

Jessica - People are buying more cars from those who make them better, and that's why Toyota surged ahead this year to become the world's top seller. My 2007 Toyota Prius gets 54 mpg average, but just look at all the car ads on TV now that are touting 30 mpg as being a good thing! It's enough to make any sane person want to vomit. Toyota understood what people wanted, and they delivered the goods. The American car manufacturers didn't get it, though they should have. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Opec Oil Embargo of 1973, but it put our country in a tailspin. Gas prices soared to 3 times what we were used to paying, and that was only if you were willing to wait in a long lineup of cars hoping to reach a fuel pump before the station ran out of gas. It was a scary time, but it was also an early warning that should have been heeded. All of the US automakers should have immediately done some very serious redesigning and retooling to eliminate our dependence on foreign energy supplies. And our Washington lawmakers should have acted to demand a minimum of 50 mpg for every gas or diesel powered automobile sold in the USA within 5 years of the embargo. Sounds too tough? Well, consider this - just 3 years after the 1973 oil embargo, Volkswagen introduced the 1976 Rabbit diesel, which gave owners better than 50 mpg. The VW rabbit became Volkswagen's best selling car of all time, and that's because they made what people wanted. But US automakers just didn't get it. A feeble attempt was made in 1978 to give us a similar car, when Chrysler Corporation came out with the Dodge Omni, a gas powered vehicle built larger than a Rabbit, but with fuel economy of only 34 mpg. The Omni was largely responsible for Chrysler's turnaround from near bankruptcy, but why didn't they try to go VW one better, and come up with a car that would get 80 to 100 mpg? It could easily have been done, even with the larger cars. There are literally hundreds of US patents for carburetors that would have enabled cars to achieve that kind of mileage decades ago, but US automakers weren't interested in implementing any of them. Yech - time to vomit again.....
Really, though, doesn't that make you want to hurl at them? And I don't mean to hurl cash rewards, either, as in the form of a 25 billion dollar taxpayer handout. Let them bail themselves out by giving us what we truly need - electric and Hydrogen cars. If they can't do it on their own then let new car companies emerge, and call on lawmakers to pass strong anti-suppression laws to thwart those who would stand in the way of true progress. The American consumer has every right to be p.o.'d, and to not be duped into paying the ransoms being asked for. It is truly outrageous.

Best to all, Rick

[citfta]

There was an article on Yahoo just a couple of weeks ago about a car Ford is now selling in Europe. If I remember right it gets over 60 mpg. When Ford was asked why they weren't importing this car to the US their answer was the American people didn't want a car like this and it wouldn't sell in the US. I guess the person that gave that answer has been living in a cave for the last couple of years. They already have all the technology they need. If they are too stupid to see that the American public is fed up with their antics then let them go under.

citfta

[ashtweth]

All as they need to do is endorse these compressed air car companies (who BTW one of them i know in Aust is struggling for investment) .
Compressed Air

WITH LEGISLATIVE LAW TOO- For example, in the year 2010 -40 % of cars sold must have Zero emission Exhaust (like the local Calif mandate had). Prob is that GM wont go straight into EV's as their profits will DROP, they will beat around the bush and throw us all a bone giving us so many MPG per year. Milk it to death. Well we will blow that target out of the water with the GEET and hydroxy watch us.

Check out the Emission reports of this GEET for CO2 reduction!
0.1 % with the GEET 8.6 with out it!!
GEET

You telling me a simple modification like the GEET shouldn't get some of those bucks

[future pather]

Really, though, doesn't that make you want to hurl at them? And I don't mean to hurl cash rewards, either, as in the form of a 25 billion dollar taxpayer handout. Let them bail themselves out by giving us what we truly need - electric and Hydrogen cars. If they can't do it on their own then let new car companies emerge, and call on lawmakers to pass strong anti-suppression laws to thwart those who would stand in the way of true progress.

I guess it's just that I care most about improving on this issue as opposed to ruminating over frustrations with it. I understand what you are saying but for whatever reason I am more often delighted with the possibilities for change and enthusiastic over them by whatever means necessary than I am angry over those who are not making changes (or enough changes fast enough).

Maybe it's bc it's old news about how things usually go and I'm a little sick of despairing over bad news.

Again the bad news doesn't surprise me, nor does the notion that things aren't always "fair." I'm just ready to focus on whatever we can do to change things


XO Jessica

[Matthew Jones]

"Pay Now or Pay later. Whats the difference? In the end you will be taken advantage of." ... Chip Shorter

Aint that the Damn TRUTH!!

The fact is no matter who the car company they will not abandon gasoline for EV's anytime soon. The government will not force legislation on them to make them abondon gas burners, do to hardship. The best we'll see is hybrid.
Based most likely on performance on the road not performance at the pump.
Or some fuel based vehicle, they can sell fuel for.
Natural gas keeps coming up. Who wants to bet Exxon won't sell it at their pumps?

The simple fact of the matter is the car companies fear the oil companies. Because they have the power to perform Hostile takeovers and do quete frequently use that power. Thats why 30 - 35 miles to gallon is now the magic number, although more is quete obtainable. The Oil companies tell the car manufactures what mileage us Americans are going to get.

The polititions fear them because the gas companies can spend them out of office, and do quete frequently practice that.

If it were up to me the big 3 in the US could go out of buisness and the Unions and their employees would then be ripe for changes in government.

Maybe with that many people we could start talking about making changes in government "By Any Means". I beleive to fear for health and well being, for yourself and your family the ulimate motivator.

Thats the only way things are ever going change in this "Home of the Brave" country we live in. Sorry if thats too harsh....

Matthew Jones

[future pather]

Let them bail themselves out by giving us what we truly need - electric and Hydrogen cars.

The other thing is I'm not really interested in waiting for the above to happen. Of course it would be nice if it did but I think it's an incredibly bad strategy to expect it to, lol.


Jessica

[future pather]

And to clarify, I am not in support of the entire big bail out package that is now on the table, but I would chose to put $ to improve mpg.

[wpage]

Global Arena competition

Its interesting that on a global market of competition. The world auto makers have moved so slowly since the 70's fuel crunch to do the right thing with increasing mpg

My hope for the working slobs at US auto makers. GM & Ford really get it together with R&D and some truly advanced models so the jobs dont go away...

The economy is poor enough without loosing those positions. The workers can compete if good management presents itself

W