Friction Steam Boiler

[gene gene]

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the Re. I'm kind of getting the cart before the horse, in thinking about a steam boat drive, but would appreciate you're help latter maybe after I get my Lloyds up and running. I just got the OK from a friend for the use of his shop, he has a torch and welder. So now it's just finding the time. I'm a self employed carpenter and have to try to stay busy during our short building season here.

Am I right in my thinking that in a compound Tesla turbine, the exhaust from turbine one would best travel to turbine two in a large pipe so as not to act as a choke? I have a drawing of a compound Tesla under a Lloyds but will not take up thread space with it. In looking at it with turbines on a vertical shaft I wonder how to get rid of condensate and where with out loosing to much pressure?

I have been trying to find a supplier for pizza cutter wheels ( no handles ) thinking I could drill a few holes and be well on my way to a test turbine. It seems like these all come from China. Someone must be making them here.

Best regards to you,
Gene

[Ozicell]

This is fascinating stuff! I remember seeing a news item of a man who heated an apartment block using a turbine of sorts. The heat was created by a toothed array which buffeted water between the blades of the turbine and the case creating friction and heat. At least I think this was how it was done.

Does anyone know more about this one? I haven't seen it anywhere!

[Ozicell]

Found it!

A little different to what I had described but I think this is it!

YouTube - FUELLESS HEATER NO FUEL NO GAS NO WOOD NO GREEN HOUSE GASES

[rickoff]

Reply to Ozicell:

A little different to what I had described but I think this is it!

YouTube - FUELLESS HEATER NO FUEL NO GAS NO WOOD NO GREEN HOUSE GASES

Hi Oz,

Yes, this is something we covered fairly well in some earlier posts in this thread, which you may find interesting, especially here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/31987-post60.html

Glad you found this thread enjoyable.

Best regards,

Rick

[Lyman]

Good Stuff!

Hello All, I'm new to this thread stuff, so please bear with me. The friction boiler seems very interesttesting and well worth testing. The mind seems to run when pondering the accessories that could be combined with the efficient heat source that Mr. Tanner has discovered. Where I live we don't really use that much home heating, but as you all know we generally derive most of our comforts from some type of heat source which mostly comes from fossil fuel. So any efficient heat source has almost endless uses. One would think that steam might be the most efficient method of converting direct heat to useable horsepower, but I also wonder about other heat engines such as the sterling too. I also believe that I will try to test some other friction materials as well, mostly for the sake of a more compact unit with less chance of a stray fire. I work for a living so things kind of need to be self sufficient (idiot proof) around here. There are lots of readily available control devices that could be adapted to whatever system one decides to use. I prefer the tried and true K.I.S.S. method of home engineering. Who knows, where this will go? Thanks for all the good info and I will gladly share when I can. Lyman

[rickoff]

Reply to Lyman:

Hi Lyman,

Thanks for your interest and participation here. There are many ways that Lloyd's device can be used advantageously, and as you read through this thread I am sure that several ideas will come to mind. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. Useful suggestions are always welcome too.

Best regards to you,

Rick

[rickoff]

Latest news from Lloyd Tanner:

Hi folks,

Just received this reply from Lloyd Tanner. I had asked if he could supply any photos of his newer horizontal roller friction device. I think that he may be applying for a patent on this design, and perhaps his attorney has advised him not to disclose any photos publicly at this time. That's understandable, and Lloyd has already given us a great deal of information on both the vertical and horizontal designs. He may be able to share more after meeting with his attorney. Here's what Lloyd wrote:

Hi Rick - Great to hear from you! Thank you for your email.

Right now I am kind of at a stand still pending legal advice. Since the election and the financial crisis, I am not sure who is in charge of the energy commission, but I will find out from our state representative in D.C. in the near future. As for the professor, he is supposed to be checking out your thread on energetic forum, however he also teaches so it has to be in his spare time.

As you know there are many different ways to design this unit but, so far, the horizontal is the best design and the most efficient. For the people who are waiting for more detail, you have my permission to do a concept drawing of the unit.

I also agree with you that a 1/4 scale replication would be best to do first.

I will get back to you after I have completed the legal issues.

My regards to you and Lezel.

Lloyd Tanner

[groundhog]

Quick review of the numbers you quoted.

Greetings Rick,

I actually have been monitoring with much interest your other thread on the PMM and am very enthusiastic about that project, and THEN you just HAD to throw a link to this thread and now I'm divided So many ideas.... so little time to pursue them all!!!

Anyway, awesome job on this thread as well, and now I will be monitoring both for new and exciting developments!!

Since I have 'crammed' all of this information on this Friction Steam Generator into my brain in just under 24 hrs, please forgive the question as I may have missed something, but I do see a slight discrepancy in the numbers that were quoted in.... I think post #186 or somewhere thereabout, posted by Vortex.

When you calculated the ~542l/hr rate of steam production, it was stated that the resultant water consumption at that rate would equal to somewhere just over 5 gal/Hr. However the quote from Lloyd stated that his machine used nearly 5gal in 30 min. I wonder if the calculations that you performed based on your best guesses and with the info that Lloyd provided could have undershot the possible performance of this device by a large margin. Unless I missed something in the math, the calculations for using it with a 10hp steam engine would leave you with an excess of not 38 l/hr but closer to 580 l/hr excess steam production! If that is correct then a self-runner is definitely possible while at the same time having an abundance of useful energy left to do work! If you then couple that with a high efficiency Tesla turbine....Whoa!!

Please double check me on this and let me know if I missed something, cause I just might put the PMM on the back 'burner' (pun intended) and dive into a replication of this right away!

Many thanks to all of your contributions here and elsewhere, a treasure to all of us for SURE!

[rickoff]

Reply to Groundhog:

Greetings Rick,

I actually have been monitoring with much interest your other thread on the PMM and am very enthusiastic about that project, and THEN you just HAD to throw a link to this thread and now I'm divided So many ideas.... so little time to pursue them all!!!

Anyway, awesome job on this thread as well, and now I will be monitoring both for new and exciting developments!!

Since I have 'crammed' all of this information on this Friction Steam Generator into my brain in just under 24 hrs, please forgive the question as I may have missed something, but I do see a slight discrepancy in the numbers that were quoted in.... I think post #186 or somewhere thereabout, posted by Vortex.

When you calculated the ~542l/hr rate of steam production, it was stated that the resultant water consumption at that rate would equal to somewhere just over 5 gal/Hr. However the quote from Lloyd stated that his machine used nearly 5gal in 30 min. I wonder if the calculations that you performed based on your best guesses and with the info that Lloyd provided could have undershot the possible performance of this device by a large margin. Unless I missed something in the math, the calculations for using it with a 10hp steam engine would leave you with an excess of not 38 l/hr but closer to 580 l/hr excess steam production! If that is correct then a self-runner is definitely possible while at the same time having an abundance of useful energy left to do work! If you then couple that with a high efficiency Tesla turbine....Whoa!!

Please double check me on this and let me know if I missed something, cause I just might put the PMM on the back 'burner' (pun intended) and dive into a replication of this right away!

Many thanks to all of your contributions here and elsewhere, a treasure to all of us for SURE!

Actually, I calculated that at 542.81 liters per minute of steam if running at 300 F degrees and 50 psi, instead of the 700 F degrees and 300 psi Lloyd used in his test. You see, there's no need to operate that high.
His test was aimed at showing the maximum sustained output he could achieve over a 1/2 hour time period.

This is a good time to get started on a replication of Lloyd's device so that it will be done before next winter sets in.

Thanks for your kind words, and I hope that you replicate both the friction steamer and the magnetic motor - generator.

Best wishes,

Rick

[groundhog]

Actually, I calculated that at 542.81 liters per minute of steam if running at 300 F degrees and 50 psi, instead of the 700 F degrees and 300 psi Lloyd used in his test. You see, there's no need to operate that high.
His test was aimed at showing the maximum sustained output he could achieve over a 1/2 hour time period.

This is a good time to get started on a replication of Lloyd's device so that it will be done before next winter sets in.

Thanks for your kind words, and I hope that you replicate both the friction steamer and the magnetic motor - generator.

Best wishes,

Rick

Rick,

Sorry, I had my timeframes mixed. And yet, I still think that my point is valid, end even more so in the smaller timeframes.

Can't we take Lloyd's statement and work it backwards to find the volume of steam he produced? eg:

He stated that his water reservoir (or was it the hopper) contained 5 gal of water which lasted him approx 30 min, then took 5 min to refill. Assuming that it didn't go completely dry in that 30 min before refilling, let's say he converted 4.5 gal in that 30 min or 9 gal/hr.

9 gal/hr = .15gal/min(water) * ~1600 = 240 gal/min(steam) = 908l/min of steam,(if his conversion rate was 100% of the 9 gal, but lets say he only achieved 80% conversion due to heat losses and pressure variances). That's still 726 l/min of steam to work with with his setup at maximum output.

Even if you take the higher of the two numbers that you and Vortex calculated for the 10HP Green Steam Engine (508 l/min). 726 - 508 = 218l/min of reserve capacity!! That's almost enough to run another 5HP Green Steam Engine and would exceed those requirements if the efficiency in conversion is higher than 80%!! I wonder how all of this would work volumetrically with a Tesla turbine!!! Probably MUCH higher output if designed properly!!

Perhaps I'm still missing something in the conversion numbers, and not trying to belabor the point....and I don't even know if that's a valid way of computing Lloyd's output... just got more excited when I noticed that difference.

I do think I'm going to have to try to do these two projects simultaneously!! As there is no way to choose which one to do first!! LOL I will naturally post any results here if the thread is still active by that time! HA!

Thanks again for the reply, I'm hope I'm not bugging you too bad and taking time from your PMM project. (love the videos, BTW! Awesome job!! )

Thanks!

The jr. rick! LOL

[silversearcher]

Interested Builders...(hopefully West coast)

To all interested builders,

I would like to find someone to work with in building a small system. Maybe 1/2 scale of the friction generator and a Tesla turbine to see if we can generate enough power to run the 'friction generator' and (hopefully) have excess power.

I have a motorhome so I can come to your place anyplace in California. Or we can meet in S Cal if you have a suitable RV to live in.
Is anyone interested in working together to build and test this system.

Ron

[groundhog]

Updated info on Tesla Turbine Data

Hello again all,

It's been some time since there was any activity here, with Rick involved in the PMM project. Has anyone been actively working on this steam generator? Any replications with data or status reports yet?
I've just found an R&D shop in my local area that has been quietly working on some tesla turbine designs and I hope to be able to meet with the owner and get some of the data he's got on his designs. When I do, I'll make sure to post it here for your consideration with respect to Lloyds Friction steam Generator.

Is there any particular information that I could obtain from this gentleman that would be helpful to those of you who are building replica's? Aside from the obvious, capacity, input volume/pressure requirements vs. output numbers, etc., what other information would be useful in this application?

I am operating under the presupposition that the tesla turbine will provide the highest efficiency/reliability in this particular application (at least for now) and am going for a complete electrical generator system build in this direction (a small one to start with, of course) if the numbers that I obtain show it to be feasible to attempt.

I'll update with the info as I can get it....

Rick

[rickoff]

Hey thanks, Groundhog. The information will be appreciated. Do you know if the R&D shop is building their units based upon information from the Tesla Builder's Association, or are these their own variations based on Tesla's patent info? Even though I have been flat out on the Pipe Dream Project, I am still very much interested in this thread too. There haven't been many questions posted here lately, and I assume that is simply because everything has pretty much been answered concerning Lloyd's device. We did spend considerable time talking about Tesla turbines also, and I really do believe they are the perfect match for Lloyds machine. With the fall in oil prices this past winter, there probably isn't as much interest in building a friction heater as there was previously, but there is really no time better than the present for people to be working on replications. This coming winter, I expect that fuel prices will be surging again. Don't be fooled by the temporary lull in price. Gasoline prices have already risen sharply the past two months, and come October may well be on the way towards $4 per gallon once again, with heating oil following close behind. Here in Maine a great many people converted to pellet stoves last winter, and that caused the price of pellet fuel to surge much higher than the previous year. Pellet stoves are generally more efficient than other wood stoves, but still nowhere nears as efficient as Lloyd's friction heater.

Best regards,

Rick

[groundhog]

Reply to Rickoff re: Tesla Turbine

Rickoff,

Yes, I've certainly been appreciating your other PMM project, but also been keeping an eye open here as well. And also been trying to put together my thinking on this side as well because of the more immediate results that could seemingly be had with a set-up like this.

I don't know yet, much about the tesla turbines that these guys are working on as the acquaintance that referred me to them got very tight lipped when he discovered my interest, I think he let the cat out of the bag and then decided he'd said too much. So he just kept repeating that I should go by and talk directly with the owner to each one of my successive questions...ha. It just goes to show how fearful some still are in this field of 'interest', and perhaps rightly so.... I'll be sure to ask the answer to your question and hopefully get much more detailed information. At the very least, I do hope that I can make an ally in my attempt to build a prototype of Lloyd's device coupled with a turbine to see if a suitable energy source can be developed in this fashion. Good machinists are hard to find out here!!

I do agree that we've probably not seen the worst of the 'crunch' yet and I really want to capitalize on this little bit of a breather we've got going now to establish some things in my house for the tougher times ahead. I got caught my pants in the ankle region last time and don't want to do THAT again. LOL

Should have some answers by the end of this coming weekend, maybe sooner, and I'll keep you apprised. In the meantime, enjoy that beautiful weather (I love those cool rainy days!) and I'm awaiting the next vid of your PMM with much anticipation!! Thanks again for your efforts there, they are VERY appreciated!

Regards from the west!!

Rick

[rickoff]

Cool and rainy it has been the past 2 weeks here, and a bit unusual for summer weather. Thanks for checking this out, and how far "west" are you, groundhog?